Russian media attitudes towards war on Ukraine (Orthodox-related)

[Skye1300]

I don't trust either side to tell the truth. Do you know that a lot of the scenes being depicted by the media were actually recycled from years ago? They were not photos and video from the time and place they were claimed to be.
At the job I was at on Saturday, the security guard was a Ukrainian woman, and she said most of what she saw on the media from both sides was rubbish.

Russia bombed a maternity hospital killing women and their unborn babies and newborn babies and babies actually being born at that moment all killed.

Killing busloads of children and bombing handicapped homes killing those people. Awful things. One woman watched her child get decapitated.

I read news from other countries, not just America. Why would the whole world lie on Putin?

 

[prodromos]

Russia bombed a maternity hospital killing women and their unborn babies and newborn babies and babies actually being born at that moment all killed.

That is where the Azov battalion located their headquarters, using civilians as human shields.

 

[Homeowner]

That is where the Azov battalion located their headquarters, using civilians as human shields.

Your source for this ? Did Azov battalion by chance make a base in Kramatorsk train station as well ?
Every time bunch of civilians gets hit it is because they are used as human shields by nazis ?

You don't find this form of justification peculiar in any way ?

 

[rusmeister]

I don't really want to say much now, but feel compelled to say that both sides mix truth with lies. The chief problem in speaking to Americans and Westerners in general is getting across that there ARE actual and legitimate Russian grievances that went ignored, to the point that the Russians VERY wrongly decided that the only way to address them is military force. But y'all need to get the Russian side a LOT better than you do before you can fairly judge about anything. Y'all are broadly right to think the invasion a bad thing. The tremendous error on the part of people in the West is imagining that the West is as innocent as a lamb in the causes of this.
Frankly, I like the Russian idiom better (than "innocent lambs") - they say "white and fluffy" (BYEH-lee-yeh ee poo-SHEES-tee-yeh).

In short, what you all see on both sides is true, but spun. You must understand that both sides have a stake in reporting incomplete and half truths, which are far more effective than sheer lies, precisely because of the extent to which they are true. The Azov Battalion is a reality that the West doesn't really want to face up to, because they DO rather openly embrace Nazism - and that's only ONE of the issues. The Russians react to that, having been conditioned to hate Nazism from childhood, and (among those that support the war) themselves don't grasp the fascist nature of their own actions and the way they become like that which they hate.

 

[tapi]

I don't really want to say much now, but feel compelled to say that both sides mix truth with lies. The chief problem in speaking to Americans and Westerners in general is getting across that there ARE actual and legitimate Russian grievances that went ignored, to the point that the Russians VERY wrongly decided that the only way to address them is military force. But y'all need to get the Russian side a LOT better than you do before you can fairly judge about anything. Y'all are broadly right to think the invasion a bad thing. The tremendous error on the part of people in the West is imagining that the West is as innocent as a lamb in the causes of this.
Frankly, I like the Russian idiom better (than "innocent lambs") - they say "white and fluffy" (BYEH-lee-yeh ee poo-SHEES-tee-yeh).

In short, what you all see on both sides is true, but spun. You must understand that both sides have a stake in reporting incomplete and half truths, which are far more effective than sheer lies, precisely because of the extent to which they are true. The Azov Battalion is a reality that the West doesn't really want to face up to, because they DO rather openly embrace Nazism - and that's only ONE of the issues. The Russians react to that, having been conditioned to hate Nazism from childhood, and (among those that support the war) themselves don't grasp the fascist nature of their own actions and the way they become like that which they hate.

When you spout bullsh*t like this, one is almost tempted to think that you deserve your new societal and economic accommodations, for what could be perhaps the rest of your life, depending on the life-span of Putin (and if his successor is a fellow silovik with the same policies)

You fail to grasp that the totalitarian dictatorship in Russia has no more right over Ukraine or any other country than did the Soviets. The creation of the Russian state is a rather modern phenomenon, after all, and there is no reason why they should be able to dictate the life and policies of half the Western World, and hold them under their Fascist system against the will of the people. That is simply folly and insanity, and those aspirations by the Russian state will lead to its regression back to the 80's in so many ways. Heck, maybe we'll even see the 50's after the energy income will tank in around 12 months.

As regards media; I have followed both Russian and Western outlets extensively throughout this war, and while the Western media outlets can go overboard or publish misleading takes, especially in the States, the Russian media is pure propaganda put out in the interest of the state, and whatever truth is reported, it is incidental to the objectives behind the narratives presented.

On a side note, I find it amusing how many here, who were basically up in the arms to go against the government should they be forced to use masks in the States, do not at all find their sensibilities offended by the total suppression of all civil rights in Russia.

 

[Platina]

When you spout bullsh*t like this, one is almost tempted to think that you deserve your new societal and economic accommodations, for what could be perhaps the rest of your life, depending on the life-span of Putin (and if his successor is a fellow silovik with the same policies)

You fail to grasp that the totalitarian dictatorship in Russia has no more right over Ukraine or any other country than did the Soviets. The creation of the Russian state is a rather modern phenomenon, after all, and there is no reason why they should be able to dictate the life and policies of half the Western World, and hold them under their Fascist system against the will of the people. That is simply folly and insanity, and those aspirations by the Russian state will lead to its regression back to the 80's in so many ways. Heck, maybe we'll even see the 50's after the energy income will tank in around 12 months.

As regards media; I have followed both Russian and Western outlets extensively throughout this war, and while the Western media outlets can go overboard or publish misleading takes, especially in the States, the Russian media is pure propaganda put out in the interest of the state, and whatever truth is reported, it is incidental to the objectives behind the narratives presented.

On a side note, I find it amusing how many of the same people here, who were basically up in the arms to go against the government should they be forced to use masks in the States, do not at all find their sensibilities offended by the total suppression of all civil rights in Russia.

It's truly amazing how you're able to completely misread Rus.

//When you spout bullsh*t like this, one is almost tempted to think that you deserve your new societal and economic accommodations, for what could be perhaps the rest of your life, depending on the life-span of Putin (and if his successor is a fellow silovik with the same policies)//

All your moral posturing is shown to be completely empty when you spout un-Christian stuff like this. People like you are salivating at the sight of normal people living inside Russia experiencing hardship, and sorry, that makes you no more Christian than those you so loudly disdain.

On the other hand, I've yet to meet a single person in Russia who is enjoying the war.

 

[tapi]

It's truly amazing how you're able to completely misread Rus.

//When you spout bullsh*t like this, one is almost tempted to think that you deserve your new societal and economic accommodations, for what could be perhaps the rest of your life, depending on the life-span of Putin (and if his successor is a fellow silovik with the same policies)//

All your moral posturing is shown to be completely empty when you spout un-Christian stuff like this.

Well, at least I do not make my living shilling in the interest of the Russian state on a propaganda outlet.

Since you edited your post, I must add that I do not find pleasure in the hardships of the Russians who are not for the destruction of the Ukrainian state and bringing the Ukrainian people under the tyranny of Russia. For those in favor of it, and those who, like our Rus here, habitually make excuses for the sins of the Russian State, one could be tempted. But ultimately, we must take pity on the deluded and even those in willing servitude of evil, although it is sometimes very difficult indeed.

 

[Platina]

Well, actually, I'm the one who's reporting about churches being damaged, about clergy ceasing commemoration, about clergy dying, about churches and monasteries going to the OCU, about countless Local Churches and hierarchs criticizing Patriarch Kirill--and all this because I'm taking a stand and telling our editors we have to report the bad with the good, but sure, make yourself feel more righteous by attacking me.

 

[Platina]

....

 

[Nick1000]

On the other hand, I've yet to meet a single person in Russia who is enjoying the war.

Let's see what it looks like on Victory Day, May 9. You can be sure that there will be some world class BS flying around on that day and Putin will have the stadium full of Russians in a trance state cheering on all the great accomplishments from the war.

 

[tapi]

This is what people who are actually paying attention to our site, who don't have a hate-driven axe to grind see

Oh believe me, I have been paying very close attention. And indeed it was to be suspected there were authors with multiple views, or a dissenting voice, as the reporting has not been as uniform as it usually is. That is commendable of you, and it is good to see your support for Met. Onuphry was not just for moral posturing, either. Nevertheless it cannot be denied that the site contains a massive amount of shilling for the state narrative, even if it is in spite of your activities. But you can hardly be blamed for that. Nevertheless, I hope in retrospect, the editorial line about some past topics can now be seen in a different light, now that the involvement of the state in the affairs of the Russian Church is plain to see.

 

[Homeowner]

In short, what you all see on both sides is true, but spun. You must understand that both sides have a stake in reporting incomplete and half truths, which are far more effective than sheer lies, precisely because of the extent to which they are true. The Azov Battalion is a reality that the West doesn't really want to face up to, because they DO rather openly embrace Nazism - and that's only ONE of the issues. The Russians react to that, having been conditioned to hate Nazism from childhood, and (among those that support the war) themselves don't grasp the fascist nature of their own actions and the way they become like that which they hate.

Of course propaganda flies both ways but there are far more different actors among the West reporting about things that are generally agreed upon. Like there is an actual war going on, Kiev is getting shelled, Russian troops fall in thousands while audience in Russia gets pure fantasy show about their "special operation" going great, soldiers with great morale singing patriotic nazi killing songs while the week long planned bloodless Ukrainian annexation to re-establish Russian security concerns, yearning for lost ideal superpower status that historically was never there grinds onwards toward next attack phase where Putin hopes to get enough game marks to get something credible enough to call victory.

I even get that older people are conditioned to these falsehoods, that Russian approach to what we would consider truths is more flexible and they don't seem particularly effected in negative ways by their leader lying about anything if it gets them an advantage. Just business as usual.

The Nazi branding as mentioned is totally engineered and nowadays anyone opposing Russia is a nazi, symphatizer or traitor to Russian people. There was already an article how Russian "historians" are making mass graves of Stalin's terror contributed to Finnish army , probably Nazis of course since they attacked Russia. I think Winter war is mentioned as a scouting mission or some such claptrap and totally ignored.

How long are the Russian people willing to put up with this and why ? Conditioned people getting all their information from tv are mainly the older ones. They will die out. The younger generations know how to use VPN. How long will the state control last and how bad of a mess will it be when it finally unravels.

 

[Chesterton]

The tremendous error on the part of people in the West is imagining that the West is as innocent as a lamb in the causes of this.

It's worse than being less than completely innocent. The U.S. specifically is 100% at fault for this. We just had to announce in 2008 that Ukraine and Georgia would join NATO. The U.K., Germany, France, all disagreed, but we had to throw our weight around and rub Russia's nose in our power. It's like an episode of The Office where the idiot boss comes up with some stupendously disastrous idea. Everyone else tries to talk him out of, but he's the boss and he's undeterred, so disaster follows.

And this is a NATO which shouldn't even exist. We pay umpteen billions of dollars a year to defend Germany. From who? From what? Martians?

The Azov Battalion is a reality that the West doesn't really want to face up to, because they DO rather openly embrace Nazism - and that's only ONE of the issues. The Russians react to that, having been conditioned to hate Nazism from childhood, and (among those that support the war) themselves don't grasp the fascist nature of their own actions and the way they become like that which they hate.

The other day I heard a pundit say "Azov Battalion's no big deal. National Corps only got 2% of the vote." Wow, can you even imagine a Nazi-related political party getting 2% in the U.S.?! The media would be losing its mind 24/7 for the next million news cycles

 

[Nick1000]

The U.K., Germany, France, all disagreed, but we had to throw our weight around and rub Russia's nose in our power.

Arguably, many countries express an interest in joining NATO as a result of Putin throwing his weight around, not the Americans.

Talk to Finland and Sweden these days for more on this.

 

[tapi]

Arguably, many countries express an interest in joining NATO as a result of Putin throwing his weight around, not the Americans.

Talk to Finland and Sweden these days for more on this.

Indeed. The Baltic countries, Poland and Romania, and others, have much experience of the Russian mindset from the Soviet times. They suffered greatly after their "liberation" by the Soviet forces (even to this day, Russia claims that it liberated these countries and they joined and stayed part of their Union completely willingly). The same suffering awaits Ukraine, if it loses this war. They know it well, so the whole country is fighting, including the Russian-speaking Orthodox. Mind you, the people in power in Russia today are largely old KGB-people. Had the countries which joined NATO in the 90's and after left their fates to the whims of Putin and his goons, we would have likely seen multiple occupations already.

Soon Sweden and Finland will follow suit; the public opinion, and the majority of political parties were opposed to NATO (around 60-40ish) in both countries, but with Russia showing that it is willing to pay horrid economical and political costs to attain it's grandiose imperialist fantasies, this has shifted to overwhelming support after the beginning of Putin's war effort. They know, without the backing of the NATO, they do not ultimately stand a chance in major war situation, and Russia is not a party to be trusted so going with diplomacy is not an option if you want safety.

The fact that some people, after how outrageously fascist Russia has become today (and it keeps getting worse), still refuse to see Russia for what it is proves they are any combination of a) insane b) deluded c) genuine supporters of the atrocities of Putin's regime and the system he has enacted, and would likely not be opposed to Hitler, if they could go back to 36.

I am very happy that these people get to enjoy seeing Russia be reduced back to the stone ages, and sooner or later, the regime will fall. Perhaps the Russian people decide to go with a different option the next go around, rather than allowing another totalitarian dictator assume power.

 

[Chesterton]

Arguably, many countries express an interest in joining NATO as a result of Putin throwing his weight around, not the Americans.

Talk to Finland and Sweden these days for more on this.

Putin never threw his weight around, Russia doesn't have much weight. Countries want to join NATO for the huge discount on defense spending. If someone foolishly offers to pay a big percentage of my living expenses I'd probably say yes too.

 

[Chesterton]

grandiose imperialist fantasies

I see this a lot. What's the evidence for it?

 

[Nick1000]

Putin never threw his weight around, .

Really?

The countries considering joining can evaluate that based on their own observations. They need to spend exactly Zero time listening to Americans on that topic.

If they look at Ukraine for example- just to name one instance- and- like you- can see no example of Putin throwing his weight around, well they can arrive at that conclusion.

Your point is valid though, joining a collective defense arrangement is often easier on the psche and the country's budget than seeing their country reduced to a parking lot day by day. Again, those considering memebership have their own observations even though you see no examples. Odesa looks like Odesa today. Next month, it will look like Aleppo, just as Mariupol does. Not everyone is okay going that route. Nor do they look at it and think "gee, I don't see any example of Putin throwing his weight around. It's just all those Americans manipulating them."

 

[archer75]

I am surprised to see on this thread that some people seem to think politcal posturing by one country surrounding inviting others to join a defensive alliance is now seen, by some, to justify rape and murder. I am genuinely surprised!

Few people on this thread who show support for the unquestionably sinful, horrific, evil actions taken by the Russian Federation in Ukraine have shown much interested in the article linked in the OP, perhaps because it shows very clearly that the Russian narrative about this is delusional and unrelated to reality.

 

[archer75]

The fact that some people, after how outrageously fascist Russia has become today (and it keeps getting worse), still refuse to see Russia for what it is proves they are any combination of a) insane b) deluded c) genuine supporters of the atrocities of Putin's regime and the system he has enacted, and would likely not be opposed to Hitler, if they could go back to 36.

The country-invading, raping, city-destroying, civilian-murdering actions taken by Russia--largely against Russian-speaking Orthodox (or likely Orthodox) people--may be, for some humans, a pleasant outlet for violent fantasies that they would not feel comfortable expressing or sympathizing with without the ridiculous picture of "conservatism" or "Orthodoxness" that Putin has propped up over the last two decades.

I am confident that if anyone posted on TAW "Hey, I have constant fantasies of committing rape, murder, and destroying countless lives, and I've spent decades of my life arranging things to help make these fantasies come true" they would be instantly referred to a priest (and likely also a mental health professional). But actually doing those things is not such a problem--again, for some. Not really to be addressed directly, because we should show humility before our hierarchs. We shouldn't show that humility when Sister Vassa is wrong about something and let her bishop handle it, but we should show it when a delusional narcissist (who some think we are supposed to pretend is an Orthodox patriarch) uses the military resources of the ruins of the Russian Empire to subject countless innocent people, many of them Orthodox, to rape and murder.

It's a good lesson for me. Despite the possible political disagreements I could have with many Orthodox people (or other Christians), I like to think that there are certain moral things we can all agree on. But this is a good reminder that that isn't so.