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Solution to the creation/evolution debate...?

Astrid

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Wish I had the opportunity to let you see for yourself
how confused that poor woman is.
Ive had the privilege to work with dinosaur bones in the field
and lab.
It would be nice if you could see for yourself the bones
dug out of solid rock, their form, internal structure-

Of course theres fossil turtles, fish etc too.

The real world is way more interesting than some ignorant
woman's silly fantasy.
 
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TLK Valentine

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The rest of the class doesn't need to have it shared to them: they read Post 513.

And they dismissed it as stuff and nonsense. Got anything else?
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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It is very clear that humans are much more intelligent than animals.
We are more intelligent in specific ways, but the last 50 or so years have shown us that many animals are far more intelligent than we thought - we discovered that chimps use tools and pass on ideas from generation to generation, i.e. culture, and have better spatial memory than we do. Birds can use tools, have a basic knowledge of physics, and can work out complex puzzles - some can understand and communicate abstract ideas, and so-on.

We have evolved abstract symbolic manipulation, which has given us language, deliberative thought, mental projection forward & backwards in time, and metacognition. These facilities give us a tremendous advantage, and together with hands with opposable thumbs, enabled us to master tool technology and so-on. But the truth is that if you look at everyday human behaviour, we have a lot in common with other primates.

I am very confident to say that even if you give any animal billions of years, they would never get to the point of reading, writing, making computers etc. Sure you can teach a monkey sign language, but even getting them to speak complex languages such as human languages is simply impossible, even with animals that have larger brain mass then humans. What is the evolution answer to this? There are no other animals which are close to human intelligence. Where are the talking lions, the talking bears; where are the literal code monkeys.
If animals remained unchanged for millions of years, they wouldn't be able to read or write like us, but evolution is a process whereby populations change and adapt to their environment. If humans weren't around, it's quite conceivable that another primate could evolve along similar lines, but not inevitable; our evolution was the result of a long sequence of changes, probably started by the adoption of a hunter-gatherer savannah lifestyle.

This is a testament to how unique humans are, and to say we have evolved from animals is nonsense. What I see in the world is humans more advanced than animals, an entire nation, and also history which confirms scripture.
You have an understandably anthropocentric view - humans excel in cognitive abilities (and endurance running); in almost every other sphere, there are animals with far superior abilities. Naturally, we tend to focus on what we're obviously good at and judge other animals on those terms.

But there are multiple independent lines of evidence that we have a common ancestor with other primates and all primates share a common ancestor with other mammals, and so on. Not only do we share the same basic body structure and function, from biochemistry to cells and organs, and many other indicators, but the clinching evidence is in our DNA, which we inherit from our parents.

Embedded in our DNA are fragments of virus DNA that we've inherited, that were inserted there when a retrovirus infected an ancestor's cells and inserted a piece of DNA during its reproduction. We can identify these pieces of DNA with the various types of retrovirus that left them.

When we compare our DNA with chimp DNA, we see embedded virus relic DNA there too, but we also find that around 200 of those pieces, scattered at random through the ~3 billion base pairs of the chimp DNA are the same as ours (which means we've been infected by the same viruses), but more than that, they're in exactly the same places in our DNA as in the chimp DNA. There are other chunks of virus DNA that we don't share with chimps, but the only way we can share 200 identical viral DNA insertions in exactly the same places, is if we both inherited them from a common ancestor.

Then I am told that a Theory which is "well-tested" is to be believed. One that requires millions, if not billions of years; "well-tested" over at most a few years, by scientists which are intentionally seeking alternative explanations...
Not exactly. In science, you don't believe a theory, you accept it as the best explanation we currently have. All scientific theories are, in principle, provisional, which means they could be changed or abandoned if new, contradictory evidence emerges. Having said that, some theories are so well-supported that, for all intents and purposes, they can be taken to be correct. For example, with evolution, we have multiple independent lines of evidence accumulated over 150 years, we know the basic principle by which it works, we know the basic mechanism which it uses, and we've been able to use that principle to use generate novel designs by computer ('Evolutionary Design').

... rather than first testing what is presented and has been known for thousands of years, in a world full of lies (check the news and you'll see).
I don't know what you mean by this - can you explain?
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Wish I had the opportunity to let you see for yourself
how confused that poor woman is.
Ive had the privilege to work with dinosaur bones in the field
and lab.
It would be nice if you could see for yourself the bones
dug out of solid rock, their form, internal structure-

Of course theres fossil turtles, fish etc too.

The real world is way more interesting than some ignorant
woman's silly fantasy.
Eric Dubay is a flat-earther, serial conspiracist, and pseudoscience-woo promoter who makes money selling any old nonsense he can to the gullible (apparently also banned from some channels for hate speech).
 
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TLK Valentine

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FullMoon

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Wish I had the opportunity to let you see for yourself
how confused that poor woman is.
Ive had the privilege to work with dinosaur bones in the field
and lab.
It would be nice if you could see for yourself the bones
dug out of solid rock, their form, internal structure-

Of course theres fossil turtles, fish etc too.

The real world is way more interesting than some ignorant
woman's silly fantasy.
Sorry, I had issues sharing the link, I'll try here again:
https://www.bit"(-)"chute.com/video/8mLtj8oyiYdb/
Note: remove "(-)" from link.
By the way, its a guy that gave that presentation. I'm pretty sure your comments are addressed in the video also.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Sorry, I had issues sharing the link, I'll try here again:

The link came through fine; it's the thought process in in video itself that failed.
 
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FullMoon

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Just out of curiosity, what's your take on:
  1. behemoths
  2. leviathans
  3. dragons
  4. satyrs
  5. unicorns
With (1) and (2), I think there's only one of each. Not sure where (1) would be (in a desert place I suppose) but I think (2) is either in the deep seas under the earth, or in the sea outside the firmament (look into flat earth to understand this). (3) refers to reptiles/snakes (devil is called the ancient serpent and a dragon). I don't know much on (4). (5) is just two horned rhinoceros.
 
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FullMoon

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I don't know what you mean by this - can you explain?
What I mean is creation is a viewpoint that has been around for thousands of years (from the beginning of human history), why doesn't science simply test this to begin with, why search for an alternative explanation without first testing this. Seems to me that the scientists are happy with any alternative to creation. Also it is clear that many lies are spread through the news, media etc. What makes you think that the scientific community is any different?
 
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ottawak

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What I mean is creation is a viewpoint that has been around for thousands of years (from the beginning of human history), why doesn't science simply test this to begin with, why search for an alternative explanation without first testing this. Seems to me that the scientists are happy with any alternative to creation. Also it is clear that many lies are spread through the news, media etc. What makes you think that the scientific community is any different?
It was tested--tested extensively by 17th and 18th century researchers (most of whom were Christian clergymen) at the very beginning of modern scientific inquiry into the subject. They were looking to substantiate the biblical account of creation, but finally had to give it up because the evidence was all against it. It was only then that they began looking at alternatives.
 
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SelfSim

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Also it is clear that many lies are spread through the news, media etc. What makes you think that the scientific community is any different?
Science's process is visible to those familiar with it.
Lies are deliberately opaque.
 
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Astrid

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What I mean is creation is a viewpoint that has been around for thousands of years (from the beginning of human history), why doesn't science simply test this to begin with, why search for an alternative explanation without first testing this. Seems to me that the scientists are happy with any alternative to creation. Also it is clear that many lies are spread through the news, media etc. What makes you think that the scientific community is any different?

What makes you think that a preacher or a random youtuber
can be trusted?
 
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FullMoon

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It was tested--tested extensively by 17th and 18th century researchers (most of whom were Christian clergymen) at the very beginning of modern scientific inquiry into the subject. They were looking to substantiate the biblical account of creation, but finally had to give it up because the evidence was all against it. It was only then that they began looking at alternatives.
What evidence was against it exactly? Could you elaborate. What were their findings?
 
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enoob57

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Tell everyone they're sick so you can sell them medicine.
One of the things the Christian is released from is holding anything of material essence such as money and things of non-import... it has no continuance of value... so we don't give it much relevance now as we pass through this life :oldthumbsup:
 
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FullMoon

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What makes you think that a preacher or a random youtuber
can be trusted?
They can be trusted when they are logical, speak with common sense, when they speak of things that I can clearly see in reality; not this scientist said this so trust it thing. Logic and reality should be our basis, not what some scientists said.
 
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enoob57

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How is that even a fair deal, let alone a beneficial one?
Well from where you are reasoning from- where only the natural toward body benefit is priority numero uno it doesn't... but for us who have placed faith in God and His Word it is eternal pricelessness!
 
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