Is the Lord's Day Saturday according to Acts of John (Apocryphal)?

[daq]

No I don't want you to judge me. I already made that clear. You're using that strawman as a scapegoat.

Lets be clear then before proceeding further. Are Christians who don't keep the Saturday Sabbath saved?

Q: daq, do you think scripture says Christians have to keep the Saturday Sabbath in order to be saved?"

The orthodox Christian view (which I hold to)

 

[Bob S]

Your response here...

No one is telling you we are required to observe ritual laws of the old covenant so why pretend that they are? God's 10 commandments are not ritual laws they are God's laws that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and the standard of righteousness when obeyed (Psalms 119:172) and according to James if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11.

Take Care Bob.

That was a response to you LGW. Why do you pretend that the fourth commandment is not a ritual command LGW? Everyone knows that it different from the other nine. Nine deal with morality. One deals with ritualism just as do the other eight required festival Sabbaths and one new moon Sabbath. Why do I have to mop up after all your posts.

By the way, I need to mop up the falsehood you keep presenting concerning what James wrote in James 2:10-11. James is not telling we have to have works of the law like you falsely claim, he is telling us that faith without good deeds is dead. So, mark that off your the list you present that do not prove we are under the ten commandments. And while I am thinking about it be honest and allow Paul's writings speak for their selves and not your false interpretations. 2Corinthians 3:6-11, Galatians 3:19, Ephesians 2:15, 1John 3:19-24 and many more verses that you trash in order to try to avoid the real truth.

 

[HIM]

No I don't want you to judge me. I already made that clear. You're using that strawman as a scapegoat. I asked you for your opinion about what scripture says regarding Christians and the seventh day sabbath. You declined to answer.



Meaning Christians have to keep the seventh day sabbath in order to inherit the kingdom of heaven, correct?

NO YOU are using a straw man to avoid discussing scripture

 

[Servus]

Talking about an individual person's status, isn't the same as talking about Christians as a whole. It's not even singling out a particular denomination. My asking you if you think scripture says Christians have to keep the seventh day sabbath, doesn't have anything to do with you making a personal judgement against me. It's the same as asking if Christians have to be baptized. Which gets asked and answered in the affirmative all the time on CF.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I wonder why you mention "happy Sabbath" to someone that doesn't believe in Sabbath observance. Are goading me?

Perhaps you forgot but you are on the Sabbath and law forum. There are forums outside this one if you find the Sabbath being so offensive to you.

 

[daq]

Talking about an individual person's status, isn't the same as talking about Christians as a whole. It's not even singling out a particular denomination. My asking you if you think scripture says Christians have to keep the seventh day sabbath, doesn't have anything to do with you making a personal judgement against me. It's the same as asking if Christians have to be baptized. Which gets asked and answered in the affirmative all the time on CF.

If I cannot trust that what you say on one page will still be the same on the next page then you have lost all credibility with me. Moreover you keep ignoring my questions to you and adding more questions of your own to me even though I already answered your questions and you simply refuse to accept my answers. It's nothing more than an interrogation at this point: and not even a very good one at that.

 

[Bob S]

Perhaps you forgot but you are on the Sabbath and law forum. There are forums outside this one if you find the Sabbath being so offensive to you.

Wow! now being a Sabbath and Law forum gives you who think we have to observe the Sabbath, given only to old Israel, special privileges? I find your "happy Sabbath" offensive no matter where you write it if it addressed to me.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Wow! now being a Sabbath and Law forum gives you who think we have to observe the Sabbath, given only to old Israel, special privileges? I find your "happy Sabbath" offensive no matter where you write it if it addressed to me.

You read more than what was stated and it seems to be the theme. Take care Bob. I was just offering a suggestion in case you forgot which forum you were in.

 

[Servus]

If I cannot trust that what you say on one page will still be the same on the next page then you have lost all credibility with me. Moreover you keep ignoring my questions to you and adding more questions of your own to me even though I already answered your questions and you simply refuse to accept my answers. It's nothing more than an interrogation at this point: and not even a very good one at that.

No I've only been asking one question. Which you've responded to with a bunch of elaborate posts, most likely as a deflection.

 

[Servus]

.

 

[Leaf473]

I wonder why you mention "happy Sabbath" to someone that doesn't believe in Sabbath observance. Are goading me?

I've had that same thought. Does the phrase "Happy Sabbath" occur in the scriptures? It might, but I can't think of where. I'm thinking it was something started by humans.

 

[Bob S]

They go into threads all over the place of course to tell Christians they have to keep the SDA version of the Jewish sabbath. Btw, how many Jews do you think go around saying "happy sabbath" all the time? My guess is none.

I wonder if SDAs would use the term if on a Muslim or Shinto forum? When I was one I didn't think it was so happy especially when I started seeing cracks in the foundation of the belief system. It wasn't so happy when the preacher was trying to extract more dollars out of our failing economical condition or when he told us it is a sin to cook peas on the Sabbath. We were also lectured not to fellowship with "non believing" relatives on the Sabbath. They might talk about worldly things or have the TV on. Talking about worldly things must be okay amongst brethren because as we all know if we associate with them on Sabbath worldly topics head the list. So much for "keeping" the Sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I've had that same thought. Does the phrase "Happy Sabbath" occur in the scriptures? It might, but I can't think of where. I'm thinking it was something started by humans.

It is a happy day and the Sabbath is meant to be a delight, bless and sanctify us. Why this would be offensive to anyone who lives on the Sabbath & Law forum or anyone else is beyond me, but we do have free will.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I wonder if SDAs would use the term if on a Muslim or Shinto forum? When I was one I didn't think it was so happy especially when I started seeing cracks in the foundation of the belief system. It wasn't so happy when the preacher was trying to extract more dollars out of our failing economical condition or when he told us it is a sin to cook peas on the Sabbath. We were also lectured not to fellowship with "non believing" relatives on the Sabbath. They might talk about worldly things or have the TV on. Talking about worldly things must be okay amongst brethren because as we all know if we associate with them on Sabbath worldly topics head the list. So much for "keeping" the Sabbath.

Jews use the Greeting Shabbat Shalom - Sabbath Peace.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

That was a response to you LGW. Why do you pretend that the fourth commandment is not a ritual command LGW?

I am not pretending that the Sabbath is a ritual law. That is what you are doing. Go and look up the meaning of ritual and then tell us what rituals do you have to do on the Sabbath to make God's 4th commandment a ritual? Perhaps you can provide us with a single scripture that says God's 4th commandment is a ritual? Your making things up here sadly Bob that are not supported in the scriptures. No one is telling you we are required to observe ritual laws of the old covenant so why pretend that they are? God's 10 commandments are not ritual laws they are God's eternal laws that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and the standard of righteousness when obeyed (Psalms 119:172) and according to James if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11.

Everyone knows that it different from the other nine. Nine deal with morality. One deals with ritualism just as do the other eight required festival Sabbaths and one new moon Sabbath. Why do I have to mop up after all your posts.

According to the scripture all of Gods eternal laws are moral laws. All of God's eternal laws give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and according to James if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. Of course everyone knows according to the scriptures God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin (moral wrong doing) is when broken.

By the way, I need to mop up the falsehood you keep presenting concerning what James wrote in James 2:10-11. James is not telling we have to have works of the law like you falsely claim, he is telling us that faith without good deeds is dead. So, mark that off your the list you present that do not prove we are under the ten commandments. And while I am thinking about it be honest and allow Paul's writings speak for their selves and not your false interpretations.

I am sorry Bob but I do not believe you as already shown why through the scriptures. I prefer the scriptures already shared with you that disagree with your teachings and lawlessness (without law). Of course you are free to believe as you wish that would be between you and God. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed according to the scriptures and I do not judge you. According to Jesus it is the very words of God we accept or reject that become our judge come judgment day *see John 12:47-48. Sadly at that time however it will be too late for the many who closed their eyes and ears to hearing Gods' Word so that God could heal them and hardened their hearts in unbelief leading them into sin as shown in *Isaiah 6:9-10; Hebrews 3:8-19. Let's all pray that is not were we end up.

2Corinthians 3:6-11, Galatians 3:19, Ephesians 2:15, 1John 3:19-24 and many more verses that you trash in order to try to avoid the real truth.

Well none of that is true. Everyone of those scriptures have been addressed with a full detailed scripture response showing the context you have been disregarding by trying to make a theology on single scripture taken out of their immediate context and in isolation to the rest of the bible. I believe it was you that avoided addressing every one of those responses so we will need to agree to disagree on those claims Bob which I do not believe are truthful.

Take care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Wow! now being a Sabbath and Law forum gives you who think we have to observe the Sabbath, given only to old Israel, special privileges?

According to the scriptures we are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. According to the scriptures Gods' Israel in the new covenant is now all those who believe and follow Gods' Word. Gods' Israel in the new covenant is no longer those who are born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but are now all those who are born again of the Spirit of God into God's new covenant promise *see Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:29-29 and Romans 2:28-29. Gentile "believers" are now grafted in with Jewish "believers" and we are all now one in Christ *Romans 11:16-27. Therefore if you are not a part of Gods' Israel in the new covenant you have no part in Gods' new covenant promise (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. God never made a covenant with gentiles. Therefore all of God's Word is for all of Gods' people (Israel) which of course includes Gods' 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and is the standard of righteousness when obeyed *Psalms 119:172. Of course Gods' 4th commandment "seventh day" Sabbath is one of Gods' 10 commandments that show us what sin is when broken and is the standard of righteousness when obeyed. If Gods' Israel in the new covenant is now simply all those who now believe and follow what Gods' Word says as the scriptures teach then as Gods' people we are to believe and follow what Gods' Word says. Gods 10 commandments which are repeated all through the new testament are the spoken Word of God *Exodus 20:3-17.

I find your "happy Sabbath" offensive no matter where you write it if it addressed to me.

You may want to consider that Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken and is the standard of righteousness when obeyed is God's holy day *Isaiah 58:13 and it is His Sabbath *Exodus 31:12-18; Ezekiel 20:12 according to the scriptures that he made for all mankind *Mark 2:27. So your complaint is not with us dear friend.

Take Care.

 

[Carl Emerson]

As I read this it seems LGW merges Old Covenant Israel with the Israel of Faith.

So maybe LGW should explain what he thinks was left behind from the Old Covenant (if anything).

If the third temple is built what will change if anything.

But wait - I am not holding my breath for an answer - just another tirade of scripture that magically becomes 'God's Word' - and gives us something else to 'pray about'...

 

[LoveGodsWord]

As I read this it seems LGW merges Old Covenant Israel with the Israel of Faith.

So maybe LGW should explain what he thinks was left behind from the Old Covenant (if anything).

If the third temple is built what will change if anything.

But wait - I am not holding my breath for an answer - just another tirade of scripture that magically becomes 'God's Word' - and gives us something else to 'pray about'...

The answer you were holding your breath for according to the scriptures is that all the "shadow laws" for remission of sins and those laws pointing to Gods' new covenant promise are now fulfilled and continued in Christ to who they all pointed to. These include all the earthly Sanctuary laws, the laws of the Levitical Priesthood, the laws of animal sacrifices and sin offerings for remission of sins, the annual Feast days, the laws of circumcision which represents the new covenants promise of a new heart through faith. All of the above which are the majority of old covenant laws written in the Mosaic book of the covenant *Exodus 24:7 are now fulfilled and continued in Christ to who they pointed to and are now continued in him and God's new covenant promise and work of our salvation under the new covenant. All these "shadow laws" pointed to Jesus as God's true sacrifice for the sins of the world once and for all (John 1:29; Hebrews 10:10) and to Jesus as our true great High Priest who now ministers on our behalf in the heavenly Sanctuary that the Lord pitch and not man based on better promises of the law written in the heart through faith (circumcision). *see Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27 and Hebrews 10:1-22.

Take Care

 

[daq]

The answer you were holding your breath for according to the scriptures is that all the "shadow laws" for remission of sins and those laws pointing to Gods' new covenant promise are now fulfilled and continued in Christ to who they all pointed to. These include all the earthly Sanctuary laws, the laws of the Levitical Priesthood, the laws of animal sacrifices and sin offerings for remission of sins, the annual Feast days, the laws of circumcision which represents the new covenants promise of a new heart through faith. All of the above which are the majority of old covenant laws written in the Mosaic book of the covenant *Exodus 24:7 are now fulfilled and continued in Christ to who they pointed to and are now continued in him and God's new covenant promise and work of our salvation under the new covenant. All these "shadow laws" pointed to Jesus as God's true sacrifice for the sins of the world once and for all (John 1:29; Hebrews 10:10) and to Jesus as our true great High Priest who now ministers on our behalf in the heavenly Sanctuary that the Lord pitch and not man based on better promises of the law written in the heart through faith (circumcision). *see also Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27 and Hebrews 10:1-22.

Take Care

You could also show him how even the water of the purification of the Yhudim makes the best wine at the wedding feast in Cana. It clearly mixes the water of the purification rites of the Yhudim, about two thirds full in each of the six stone cisterns, with the fresh water added to fill the cisterns to the brims, (about a third more of fresh water added to the two thirds water of purification rites).

The six stone cisterns were not ordered to be emptied and that's also very plain from the text. This is the very first miracle performed in all of the Gospel accounts, and the author states it to be so, (John 2:11), and wine represents covenant in this context. And they say we are not to mix the covenants? Lol, the "best wine" is a mixture of both the primary and the new-renewed according to the miracle, and therefore, according to the teaching and doctrine of the Messiah and his apostles.

 

[Leaf473]

Responded with...

Your response...

Sorry Leaf I cannot see your view supported in the scriptures here. How can the body be directed without the head (Jesus Christ/The Word). If you disconnect the head from the body it does not work because it is dead. For me I see your posts here as seeking to put the church above the Word of God which is not biblical or supported in the scriptures. Is that what you believe?

Take Care.

No, I don't believe the church is above the scriptures. But it is a great source of interpretation of the scriptures, probably better than individual people in most cases.

And you're right, the body is not disconnected from the head. So when we see the body moving, it seems reasonable that the head has directed it.

And you take care, as well!