The acceptance of hypocrisy

[All Glory To God]

The church does not accept LGBT folks in church due to the sentiment "from the beginning it was not so"

The church does accept divorced people and even allows them to remarry, even though Jesus said remarrying equals adultery "because from the beginning it was not so"

Should the church be concerned about the acceptance of this, and similar hypocrisies? How does God tend to respond to hypocrisy when quoted directly in the bible?

Once you have one blind spot, many others crop up in that space, and become a thing all of a sudden. Might be worth a discussion.

Thanks for enlightening me Michael I hadn't heard this before.

I was under the impression homesexuals were not accepted because the are unrepentant sinners. And most churches still hold the doctrine of repentance to receive Christ as the Lord and saviour.

 

[public hermit]

If you spend a lot of energy dwelling on what’s amiss you’ll develop biases. Prayer is a strategic response and the lone one that engages heaven.

Instead of talking about homosexuality, abortion, et al. Pray instead. It does wonders for the heart.

~bella

Okay, I'm tracking now. Agreed.

 

[Clare73]

Hey, I get it. We should get all the sinners out of church. Then, we close the doors because no one will be left.

We treat homosexuality like it's some kind of unforgivable sin.

Sin is forgiveable upon repentance.

But divorce and remarriage are forgivable.

Society overran the church on that one a long time ago, so don't expect any more lines to be actually drawn, as they were in the NT (1 Corinthians 5:13).
Sorry if the NT is offensive.

Cheating on your taxes. Forgivable. Taking a peak at inappropriate content. Forgivable. Misrepresenting what others say. Forgivable. Gossip is forgivable. Slander is rife, and forgivable. Covetousness is forgivable.

It's all hypocrisy until we drive all sinners out, or learn to be gracious with the faults of others as we are with our own.

It's not about "faults," it's about openly practiced, unrepentant sin in the body.

And if there is church discipline, any openly practiced sin in the body should be dealt with, for sin spreads like a cancer in the body.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

In the bible, Jesus teaches to bless those who curse you, and to pray for those who despitefully use you. Paul even taught to bless and not curse.

In the creation of the nicene creed there were anathemas invoked on people who believed wrong doctrines. These heavy curses (that some interpret to mean damned to hell) have become part of the foundation of the faith that the church now practices along with the creeds.

Jesus and Paul taught to bless, the early Christians decided to curse. How does this hypocritical foundation effect us today?

Should the church be concerned about the acceptance of this, and similar hypocrisies? How does God tend to respond to hypocrisy when quoted directly in the bible?

 

[public hermit]

It's not about "faults," it's about openly practiced, unrepentant sin in the body.

And if there is church discipline, any openly practiced sin in the body should be dealt with, for sin spreads like a cancer in the body.

All Christians openly practice sin. And if not openly, then secretly, which is worse. There is no accidental sin.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Thanks for enlightening me Michael I hadn't heard this before.

I was under the impression homesexuals were not accepted because the are unrepentant sinners. And most churches still hold the doctrine of repentance to receive Christ as the Lord and saviour.

There's a bit of barrier there.

If you are identified as a homosexual, you get treated as if you have a special disease.

If you have had a divorce and re-marry, barriers to confess aren't as prevalent.

There is a confession inequality present, which separates some from God's presence and the community of faith when they need it most.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

All Christians openly practice sin. And if not openly, then secretly, which is worse. There is no accidental sin.

So when hypocrisy creates an atmosphere that stigmatizes confession, what do you think God thinks about that?

 

[public hermit]

And if there is church discipline, any openly practiced sin in the body should be dealt with, for sin spreads like a cancer in the body.

Seriously, if this were put into practice the whole body would have to be disciplined, every day. Please. Self-righteousness is the allusion of sinlessness, which has functioned more like a cancer in the body than homosexuality. The church is rotten to the core, and everybody knows it but the church. That's why people are fleeing the church. All the church has to do is repent. Repent and welcome the sinner as if it were one's own self, because it is.

 

[public hermit]

So when hypocrisy creates an atmosphere that stigmatizes confession, what do you think God thinks about that?

I'm not following you. I'm not arguing sins aren't sins, I'm arguing that none of us are innocent, and that doesn't end even with confession.

 

[All Glory To God]

All Christians openly practice sin. And if not openly, then secretly, which is worse. There is no accidental sin.

Sir, I do not "practice sin" by Gods grace. Sometimes I sin (then repent) but that is not the same as practicing sin. You cannot be saved and not be turning away from sin in sanctification. It is essential for adoption and the Resurrection.

The unrepentant sinner has never professed to trust Christ to save them from their due punishment. This is a vastly different kind of situation and the two should not be confused with each other. The biggest difference is one group doesn't even have faith in God! Come on now.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I'm not following you. I'm not arguing sins aren't sins, I'm arguing that none of us are innocent, and that doesn't end even with confession.

Maybe the situation is hopeless. However, if the churches continue on as if it is okay, it will just get worse.

If the salt of the earth loses its saltiness, it becomes garbage on the ground.

But if the salt of the earth becomes toxic waste, this is not written of in the scripture, and possibly too horrifying to imagine.

 

[Clare73]

Seriously, if this were put into practice the whole body would have to be disciplined, every day. Please. Self-righteousness is the allusion of sinlessness,

It's not about self-righteousness.
Those who love the brethren will be greatly saddened by having to impose such discipline.

I'm thinking apostolic instruction to the church on the matter is to be preferred over our own values.

which has functioned more like a cancer in the body than homosexuality. The church is rotten to the core, and everybody knows it but the church. That's why people are fleeing the church. All the church has to do is repent. Repent and welcome the sinner as if it were one's own self, because it is.

The church welcomes repentant sinners, it is not for those of a continuing openly sinful lifestyle.

Those who judge church discipline must be careful lest they are the self-righteous.

 

[Clare73]

Maybe the situation is hopeless. However,
if the churches continue on as if it is okay, it will just get worse.

Yep. . .

If the salt of the earth loses its saltiness, it becomes garbage on the ground.

But if the salt of the earth becomes toxic waste, this is not written of in the scripture, and possibly too horrifying to imagine.

Yep. . .

 

[All Glory To God]

There's a bit of barrier there.

If you are identified as a homosexual, you get treated as if you have a special disease.

If you have had a divorce and re-marry, barriers to confess aren't as prevalent.

There is a confession inequality present, which separates some from God's presence and the community of faith when they need it most.

Yeah I get what your saying. I'm not defending the church. I would say perhaps the two get separated out and treated different because they are different situations. One is code of conduct, the other is church membership. The culture around us pressuring to take in the LGBT regardless of their standing with God and divorcees who re-marry who do believe in God but this is sin.

Overall I agree with your point. The church should be consistent within itself.

 

[public hermit]

Sometimes I sin (then repent) but that is not the same as practicing sin

Nonsense. No one "practices" sin. We just sin. You. Me. Them. Everyone

The unrepentant sinner has never professed to trust Christ to save them from their due punishment

Right. Punishment. You accept grace for your due punishment but not another. Do you really think that the only homosexuals who darken the door of a church are atheist?

Obviously, you think someone who is gay can't be a Christian. Can a liar? Can someone who is covetous or slanderous, or eats oysters unrepentedly darken the door of church and offer their feeble worship?

Your distinction between accidental sinner and practicing is vacuous, just like any pretense to righteousness.

 

[public hermit]

If the salt of the earth loses its saltiness, it becomes garbage on the ground

How salty do you think the church is right now? It looks like the world, which is not salty. It's just one more institution vying for power, hence the fear. If it were salty, it wouldn't be afraid of gays or anyone else, but it's not salty and, therefore, afraid.

 

[bèlla]

Okay, I'm tracking now. Agreed.

The human mind wants to understand but the spirit realm is different. They’re intelligent but not intellectuals. The distinction is important.

Discussion is an integral part of the enemy’s arsenal. We believe we’re taking action. But he knows the truth. God moves on prayer.

Less talk more prayer is a formula for divine movement. It’s an outgrowth of a lesson I learned from the art of happiness on controlling your thoughts and redirecting them.

Prayerwalking can be your default. It would make you more effective spiritually and keep the devil at bay. Spend a day praying against upsets, annoyances, and negative thoughts. Do the same on another with the addition of praise.

You’ll see life through different lenses. That’s the point. Now you’re playing the game.

~bella

 

[Clare73]

Nonsense. No one "practices" sin. We just sin. You. Me. Them. Everyone

Sorry. . .a spouse who will not give up the extra-marital sexual relationship is practicing sin as a lifestyle.
There is no repentance there.

That is not the same as the one who turns from his sin.

Right. Punishment. You accept grace for your due punishment but not another.
Do you really think that only homosexuals who darken the door of a church are atheist?

Strawman. . .

Obviously, you think someone who is gay can't be a Christian.

If they are living in an habitual sexual relationship, they are not to be allowed in the fellowship.
That is apostolic instruction.

Can a liar? Can someone who is covetous or slanders, or eats oysters unrepentedly darken the door of church and offer their feeble worship?

God had plenty to say in the OT about unrepentant sin and worship. . .and it wasn't pretty.

Your distinction between accidental sinner and practicing is vacuous, just like any pretense to righteousness.

Vacuous or not, the NT makes the same distinction.

I prefer the vacuousness of NT apostolic instruction to man's own justification of unrepentant sin.

 

[All Glory To God]

Nonsense. No one "practices" sin. We just sin. You. Me. Them. Everyone

Disagree. Have you not heard of the ''new man'' and ''new creature'' that the Bible talks about? How can we be conformed to Christs image if we never shift one iota from the unsaved, dead in sins place we begin in?

You sound almost offended at the idea of living a life of obedience to God to the best of our ability. What's the problem?

Right. Punishment. You accept grace for your due punishment but not another. Do you really think that the only homosexuals who darken the door of a church are atheist?

For the second part of that post I just said unrepentant sinners. That is people without Christ and not saved.

Obviously, you think someone who is gay can't be a Christian. Can a liar? Can someone who is covetous or slanderous, or eats oysters unrepentedly darken the door of church and offer their feeble worship?

If Gay is confirmed homosexual, they need to acknowledge their sin, stop that sin and trust Christ to be their lord and saviour. How can anyone continue in their sin without even repenting and being born again?

Your distinction between accidental sinner and practicing is vacuous, just like any pretense to righteousness.

It sounds like you have a lot of hostility for me for some reason but there's no argument for this last part and I've made the distinctions already. Again, if you got saved and nothing changed for you, how do you even know you were saved to begin with?

 

[Clare73]

In the bible, Jesus teaches to bless those who curse you, and to pray for those who despitefully use you. Paul even taught to bless and not curse.
In the creation of the nicene creed there were anathemas invoked on people who believed wrong doctrines. These heavy curses (that some interpret to mean damned to hell) have become part of the foundation of the faith that the church now practices along with the creeds.
Jesus and Paul taught to bless

Neither Jesus nor Paul taught to bless unrepentant sin.

"Repent" was often on the lips of both.

the early Christians decided to curse. How does this hypocritical foundation effect us today?

Are you disagreeing with authoritative apostolic instruction?

Ours is the doctrine of the apostles.

 

[Clare73]

All Christians openly practice sin. And if not openly, then secretly, which is worse. There is no accidental sin.

Sorry you don't see the difference as presented in 1 Corinthians 5.