Premillennialism ignores the tenses in the original Greek in order to sustain its teaching

[sovereigngrace]

Yes, he, like Amils, does believe that all wicked humans will be destroyed at the second coming of Christ. But, he has also said before that he believes the first resurrection will be a mass resurrection of people with incorruptible (but somehow mortal) bodies and they will be the ones who initially populate the millennium. And then they will have children and their children will have children and so on.

But, of course, scripture never teaches that people will be resurrected with mortal bodies in the future. His idea that they will have incorruptible, but not immortal, bodies is as ludicrous as anything I've ever seen stated on this forum. The words incorruptible and immortal mean the same thing.

No wonder he is so uncomfortable at answering simple basic questions. That is ludicrous. Imagine trying to find Scripture to support that.

 

[Timtofly]

Yes. In post #2359 you said:

There it is. You said Amils believe "that Revelation 20 was already fulfilled in the first century". That is not true.

Obviously you should know the difference between partial and full fulfillment, as you just complained that I did not. I am pretty sure you can figure out what is fulfilled and what is not?

 

[Timtofly]

Is anyone resurrected and condemned prior to the 1000 years? No. So, you're clearly wrong about this. The resurrection unto judgment resulting in either eternal life or eternal condemnation does not occur until after Satan's little season (Rev 20:11-15). In John 5:28-29 Jesus taught that people will be judged right after they are resurrected.

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Jesus made it clear that the saved and the lost dead will all be resurrected and judged at generally the same time. The judgment obviously is portrayed in Revelation 20:11-15 and it obviously occurs AFTER Satan's little season ends. So, the bodily resurrection of the dead that results in eternal life for the saved and condemnation for the lost must occur AFTER Satan's little season.

Take that up with John. He witnessed the 1000 years, and it is future after the Second Coming.

 

[jeffweedaman]

No wonder he is so uncomfortable at answering simple basic questions. That is ludicrous. Imagine trying to find Scripture to support that.

It is ludicrous to believe that the glorified redeemed will have offspring full stop. He has them being so wicked that the billions they produce will hate the Lord and his followers as they observe them in their Glorified state.
Ridiculous isnt it...?


[ Quote SJ ]
Yes, he, like Amils, does believe that all wicked humans will be destroyed at the second coming of Christ. But, he has also said before that he believes the first resurrection will be a mass resurrection of people with incorruptible (but somehow mortal) bodies and they will be the ones who initially populate the millennium. And then they will have children and their children will have children and so on.

But, of course, scripture never teaches that people will be resurrected with mortal bodies in the future. His idea that they will have incorruptible, but not immortal, bodies is as ludicrous as anything I've ever seen stated on this forum. The words incorruptible and immortal mean the same thing.]

 

[Timtofly]

You think the dead will remain dead when they stand before the great white throne? Do you know how ridiculous that is? Just because it doesn't spell it out for people like you who have no discernment doesn't mean the dead are not resurrected first before standing before the throne to be judged.

It says earlier in the chapter (Rev 20:5) that the rest of the dead would be resurrected after the thousand years. When else are they resurrected if not at the judgment to be judged? If they're not resurrected to be judged, then what happens to "the rest of the dead" after they are resurrected?

Why? You do not give the Redeemed physical bodies currently in Paradise. Why would you give the dead at the GWT physical bodies.

I doubt they are asleep standing there.

 

[Timtofly]

LOL!!!

Do you expect to be taken seriously? I hope not, because no one can take you seriously when you say things like this. Is Revelation 20:7-15 in your Bible?

The word wicked is not in those verses. You can jump to assumptions and personal opinions all you want. Since you do not care for my opinions, as you call them, why should I speculate any more than I have to?

They are the wicked dead after being consumed by fire. They will stand at the GWT. I would call them wicked at the GWT, but I doubt that would change anything for you.

 

[Timtofly]

Why are you not accepting what Jesus taught?

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

He very clearly taught that the dead wicked will be resurrected and condemned. It's undeniable. You need to adjust your beliefs accordingly.

Why do you not accept the physical resurrection in Matthew 27:52-53?

 

[Timtofly]

Who are they? In one breath you say all wicked humans are destroyed at the coming of Christ, in the next you fill your millennium with them. This doesn’t make sense.

I don't fill the Millennium with them. You do!

They listen to Satan after the 1,000 years, not a second sooner. They only rebel, or whatever you call the march across the earth, after Satan con vences them.

 

[Timtofly]

Yes, he, like Amils, does believe that all wicked humans will be destroyed at the second coming of Christ. But, he has also said before that he believes the first resurrection will be a mass resurrection of people with incorruptible (but somehow mortal) bodies and they will be the ones who initially populate the millennium. And then they will have children and their children will have children and so on.

But, of course, scripture never teaches that people will be resurrected with mortal bodies in the future. His idea that they will have incorruptible, but not immortal, bodies is as ludicrous as anything I've ever seen stated on this forum. The words incorruptible and immortal mean the same thing.

Being glorified is not being an immortal. Is this a fantasy game, or God's Word?

 

[Timtofly]

No wonder he is so uncomfortable at answering simple basic questions. That is ludicrous. Imagine trying to find Scripture to support that.

It is called Genesis 1-3.

Adam was created in the image of God with a physical permanent incorruptible body, per Paul's writings.

Adam disobeyed and physically died. He lost the incorruptible physical body, and was given a temporal corruptible body.

Any first resurrection is physical and the restoration into a permanent incorruptible physical body.

 

[sovereigngrace]

I don't fill the Millennium with them. You do!

They listen to Satan after the 1,000 years, not a second sooner. They only rebel, or whatever you call the march across the earth, after Satan con vences them.

Premillennialists like to portray their millennium as all sweetness and light. They like to portray it as some type of age of Aquarius. It is supposedly a time of wholesale submission to the rule and reign of God. The purpose of this era is to lead the millennial inhabitants to embrace Christ and follow after righteousness. It is said to be free of any rebellion. Conflict is unknown. Wars have ceased. But at the drop of a hat they switch their feigned allegiance from Jesus to Satan. These billions of millennial phonies are obviously not serious or genuine in their submission to Christ (or they would never be instantly wooed by Satan away from the glorified Christ), they are actors on a stage deceiving Christ into believing they are real. This who portrayal is a complete failure. It is a total mess. What a debacle and what an evangelistic bust!

It doesn't add up. The reality is: what you portray will never happen. The wicked are all destroyed at the second coming.

 

[sovereigngrace]

It is called called Genesis 1-3.

Adam was created in the image of God with a physical permanent incorruptible body, per Paul's writings.

Adam disobeyed and physically died. He lost the incorruptible physical body, and was given a temporal corruptible body.

Any first resurrection is physical and the restoration into a permanent incorruptible physical body.

Again, no direct quotes. No hard Scriptures. Just wild vague unsubstantiated claims. How can incorruptible bodies become corruptible? That is ridiculous. Where is your Scripture? Where is this in Revelation 20?

 

[Timtofly]

Premillennialists like to portray their millennium as all sweetness and light. They like to portray it as some type of age of Aquarius. It is supposedly a time of wholesale submission to the rule and reign of God. The purpose of this era is to lead the millennial inhabitants to embrace Christ and follow after righteousness. It is said to be free of any rebellion. Conflict is unknown. Wars have ceased. But at the drop of a hat they switch their feigned allegiance from Jesus to Satan. These billions of millennial phonies are obviously not serious or genuine in their submission to Christ (or they would never be instantly wooed by Satan away from the glorified Christ), they are actors on a stage deceiving Christ into believing they are real. This who portrayal is a complete failure. It is a total mess. What a debacle and what an evangelistic bust!

It doesn't add up. The reality is: what you portray will never happen. The wicked are all destroyed at the second coming.

They all do not switch to Satan at a drop of a hat. It takes time. You have no clue the percentage of those who rebel? If it is like the angels, then 33%

Why do you not call 33% of the angels rebelling within minutes of being created according to your theology? That is just as ludicrous if we follow you all's derision and scoffing of Pre-mill thought. You have to apply that to the angels as well.

If there are 30 billion humans alive after this 1000 years and only 33% rebel that is only 10 billion conned, but still leaves 20 billion.

You just make up smoke screen excuses because you reject Christ in control on earth for 1000 years. Your here and now is full of billions of wicked, and you must be jealous.

All get a chance to rebel if Satan is loosed. Otherwise the Millennium would just end and the NHNE begin. You have freedom of choice without God striking you dead. You should be thankful this is not the iron rod rule of Christ, where different opinions are not allowed.

 

[Timtofly]

Again, no direct quotes. No hard Scriptures. Just wild vague unsubstantiated claims. How can incorruptible bodies become corruptible? That is ridiculous. Where is your Scripture? Where is this in Revelation 20?

Did God say Adam would die the instant he ate? Are you questioning God's judgment?

 

[sovereigngrace]

They all do not switch to Satan at a drop of a hat. It takes time. You have no clue the percentage of those who rebel? If it is like the angels, then 33%

Why do you not call 33% of the angels rebelling within minutes of being created according to your theology? That is just as ludicrous if we follow you all's derision and scoffing of Pre-mill thought. You have to apply that to the angels as well.

If there are 30 billion humans alive after this 1000 years and only 33% rebel that is only 10 billion conned, but still leaves 20 billion.

You just make up smoke screen excuses because you reject Christ in control on earth for 1000 years. Your here and now is full of billions of wicked, and you must be jealous.

All get a chance to rebel if Satan is loosed. Otherwise the Millennium would just end and the NHNE begin. You have freedom of choice without God striking you dead. You should be thankful this is not the iron rod rule of Christ, where different opinions are not allowed.

So, you now accept Gog and Magog are billions of sinners that infest your future earth 1000 years after the second coming? They are powerfully deceived! They are followers of Satan!

Who then are Gog and Magog who overrun your so-called future millennium as the sand of the sea?

Who are they? Where do they come from? What qualifies them to avoid the destruction upon the wicked when Jesus comes? What qualifies them to inherit your millennial kingdom?

What do you mean "only 10 billion conned"? You are basing your beliefs on pure speculation at best or fiction at worst. How do you know it is not 29 billion humans conned?

 

[sovereigngrace]

Did God say Adam would die the instant he ate? Are you questioning God's judgment?

He did. He died spiritually.

 

[Timtofly]

So, you now accept Gog and Magog are billions of sinners that infest your future earth 1000 years after the second coming? They are powerfully deceived! They are followers of Satan!

Who then are Gog and Magog who overrun your so-called future millennium as the sand of the sea?

Who are they? Where do they come from? What qualifies them to avoid the destruction upon the wicked when Jesus comes? What qualifies them to inherit your millennial kingdom?

What do you mean "only 10 billion conned"? You are basing your beliefs on pure speculation at best or fiction at worst. How do you know it is not 29 billion humans conned?

What sin did they commit?

So a third of the angels rebelling is now fiction and speculation? I was comparing Scripture with Scripture. All you have done is speculate there are billions, even 99%, wicked humans living on earth for 1,000 years.

Sorry but trying to make the future, just the same as your current corrupt society is pointless. As pointless as calling Revelation 20 the here and now.

You have not provided a single Scripture to prove your speculation.

 

[Timtofly]

He did. He died spiritually.

No he surely died, in all manner of dying. He did not half way die. You are speculating without Scripture.

God said Adam would die, and Adam did indeed die.

 

[sovereigngrace]

What sin did they commit?

So a third of the angels rebelling is now fiction and speculation? I was comparing Scripture with Scripture. All you have done is speculate there are billions, even 99%, wicked humans living on earth for 1,000 years.

Sorry but trying to make the future, just the same as your current corrupt society is pointless. As pointless as calling Revelation 20 the here and now.

You have not provided a single Scripture to prove your speculation.

You refuse to tell us who Gog and Magog are who overrun your so-called future millennium as the sand of the sea. Who are they? Where do they come from? What qualifies them to avoid the destruction upon the wicked when Jesus comes? What qualifies them to inherit your millennial kingdom?

 

[sovereigngrace]

What sin did they commit?

So a third of the angels rebelling is now fiction and speculation? I was comparing Scripture with Scripture. All you have done is speculate there are billions, even 99%, wicked humans living on earth for 1,000 years.

Sorry but trying to make the future, just the same as your current corrupt society is pointless. As pointless as calling Revelation 20 the here and now.

You have not provided a single Scripture to prove your speculation.

In your opinion, is following Satan and rejecting Jesus sin?