Premillennialism ignores the tenses in the original Greek in order to sustain its teaching

[sovereigngrace]

I keep telling you over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

How about you tell me now? Tell me what my answer is, and then tell me how dead people work in this time where sin and Satan are not allowed. Your answer that this age is filled with sinners post the Cross is nonsensical. Was all sin removed from Adam's flesh and blood at the Cross? Has a sin nature been non-existent since the Cross? Why do you think resurrected humans have to be resurrected as sinful wicked beings?

There you go! You continually avoid these simple questions, as you must. That is because your position is untenable.

 

[sovereigngrace]

What wicked humans? Point out where wicked humans are addressed in Revelation 20.

Why would you even ask that? As much as you may live in denial that Gog and Magog are in Revelation 20, they are there. They represent real wicked humans on earth that follow Satan. What is more, they overrun the millennium in their billions as the sand of the sea.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[sovereigngrace]

I told you. The resurrection in Revelation 20:4.

The first resurrection is a physical resurrection. They get a permanent incorruptible physical body. Do you know of a different type of first resurrection?

So, the dead wicked are raised in incorruptible physical bodies and overrun the millennium as the sand of the sea in their billions?

 

[Timtofly]

There you go! You continually avoid these simple questions, as you must. That is because your position is untenable.

You won't even address my answer. You are the one avoiding the issue. Unless you start having a conversation with the points made, your constant senseless attacks will keep getting in the way of a normal conversation.

 

[Timtofly]

Why would you even ask that? As much as you may live in denial that Gog and Magog are in Revelation 20, they are there. They represent real wicked humans on earth that follow Satan. What is more, they overrun the millennium in their billions as the sand of the sea.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

You have failed to point out they were wicked and that they were wicked in the Millennium. All you have is conjecture. All would agree that once someone listens to Satan, people stop thinking rationally, and rebel against God. That is a proven fact all through Scripture, from Eve to Judas. Did God create Eve as a wicked sinner overrunning Adam's authority in the Garden? If that were the case, having a serpent was over kill. If Eve was already created that way, no serpent was even necessary. Because that is the conjecture and human opinion you use to make the Millennium just the plain old here and now, where every human is a wicked sinner overrunning creation.

There was no sin, no sin nature, and no Satan for 1000 years. Then Satan was loosed, and obviously sheol came to earth, and strong willed humans took it, hook, line, and sinker.

 

[Timtofly]

So, the dead wicked are raised in incorruptible physical bodies and overrun the millennium as the sand of the sea in their billions?

Really? Why would the dead wicked be ever resurrected? What do you think a resurrection should entail? Everlasting life or total corruption for all eternity?

Are you refusing to acknowledge who was resurrected:

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Do these sound like the wicked to you?

 

[sovereigngrace]

Really? Why would the dead wicked be ever resurrected? What do you think a resurrection should entail? Everlasting life or total corruption for all eternity?

Are you refusing to acknowledge who was resurrected:

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Do these sound like the wicked to you?

It is clear for all to see that you refuse to acknowledge the obvious. Why will you not tell us who Gog and Magog are, where they come from and what qualifies them to be on your millennial earth? So much for your perfect pristine portrayal!

 

[Timtofly]

It is clear for all to see that you refuse to acknowledge the obvious. Why will you not tell us who Gog and Magog are, where they come from and what qualifies them to be on your millennial earth? So much for your perfect pristine portrayal!

How many generations happen in 1000 years?

Look at the population explosion in the last 250 years. How many people were on earth 250 years ago? How many people do you think refuse the mark of the beast, and have their head chopped of? 1? A dozen? 100? 1000? 1 million?

Only 8 people stepped off the ark, and a thousand years later there were millions. If you have 1 million at the start of the Millennium, how many after 1000 years?

How many people have been born in the last 1000 years? Even with wars constantly killing humans, we still have 8 billion today. If there are no wars, and no natural deaths, there would not be less people on earth, but more.

A perfect pristine portrayal gives us billions of new births for hundreds of years.

Do you think during the Millennium they are going to worry or try to curb population? Only Satan and his ilk think there is too much population on earth. Satan wants humanity to die, not thrive.

 

[sovereigngrace]

How many generations happen in 1000 years?

Look at the population explosion in the last 250 years. How many people were on earth 250 years ago? How many people do you think refuse the mark of the beast, and have their head chopped of? 1? A dozen? 100? 1000? 1 million?

Only 8 people stepped off the ark, and a thousand years later there were millions. If you have 1 million at the start of the Millennium, how many after 1000 years?

How many people have been born in the last 1000 years? Even with wars constantly killing humans, we still have 8 billion today. If there are no wars, and no natural deaths, there would not be less people on earth, but more.

A perfect pristine portrayal gives us billions of new births for hundreds of years.

Do you think during the Millennium they are going to worry or try to curb population? Only Satan and his ilk think there is too much population on earth. Satan wants humanity to die, not thrive.

What has all this do do with what i asked or anything?

Once again you are totally avoiding the questions. Others can see it! This is so obvious! If you do not know then simply tell us!

So: who are the millennial inhabitants? Where do they come from? What is the criteria for inheriting the millennial earth? Who are Gog and Magog?

 

[Timtofly]

Once again you are totally avoiding the questions. Others can see it! This is so obvious! If you do not know then simply tell us!

So: who are the millennial inhabitants? Where do they come from? What is the criteria for inheriting the millennial earth? Who are Gog and Magog?

Revelation 20:4

Obviously you have no alternative, or you would have given it by now. Either acknowledge God's Word, or keep spreading defamation, inserting human opinion into the text of Revelation 20. Nowhere in the text is your opinion about these verses. I have pointed out there is a resurrection. Those resurrected reign with Christ for 1,000 years. The purpose is to populate the earth. If you do not think they can populate the earth, then you prove it. Those people after 1000 years come from some where, and Obviously people are born to have that many after hundreds of years.

If you think that a hundred people just live on earth for 1000 years and that is it, why not just say so? Yet, you invent your own billions of wicked people out of thin air. I have offered Scriptural proof. The earth came back after Noah, you can read about it in Genesis. "As in the days of Noah" is Noah's whole life, not just a percentage.

John saw a resurrection, and you offer nothing proving John did not see a resurrection. All you have offered is excuses why there cannot be a Lord's Day set apart and Holy unto God.

 

[Timtofly]

What has all this do do with what i asked or anything?

Once again you are totally avoiding the questions. Others can see it! This is so obvious! If you do not know then simply tell us!

So: who are the millennial inhabitants? Where do they come from? What is the criteria for inheriting the millennial earth? Who are Gog and Magog?

They are the future, and have not been born yet. Where do humans come from? This is a serious question? Where did you come from? Where does any one come from? I thought that it is obvious where people come from.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The confusion is the word partial. Either you are or not. Can one be a partial prophet? Can one be a partial Christian?

So, there is no difference between partial preterists who believe in a future second coming of Christ and full preterists who do not believe in a future second coming of Christ? That's nonsense. Of course there is a difference.

No one else is complaining about differentiating between them except you. And that is because everyone else besides you is aware that there are significant differences between the beliefs of partial preterists and full preterists. There's a reason why partial preterists are allowed to post on this forum and full preterists are not.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

You have that quote?

Yes. In post #2359 you said:

Amil deny the simple truth that Revelation 20 is future and they fall into the preterist position, that Revelation 20 was already fulfilled in the first century.

There it is. You said Amils believe "that Revelation 20 was already fulfilled in the first century". That is not true.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Revelation 20:4

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

The resurrection is prior to the 1000 years.

Revelation 20:7-8

"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."

Satan's little season is after the 1000 years.

"And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."

Is anyone resurrected and condemned prior to the 1000 years? No. So, you're clearly wrong about this. The resurrection unto judgment resulting in either eternal life or eternal condemnation does not occur until after Satan's little season (Rev 20:11-15). In John 5:28-29 Jesus taught that people will be judged right after they are resurrected.

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Jesus made it clear that the saved and the lost dead will all be resurrected and judged at generally the same time. The judgment obviously is portrayed in Revelation 20:11-15 and it obviously occurs AFTER Satan's little season ends. So, the bodily resurrection of the dead that results in eternal life for the saved and condemnation for the lost must occur AFTER Satan's little season.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Show me the word resurrection, only in read, in those verses. Don't hide it in a sea of red, because that does not prove your point. How much more dead can one get than dead?

How about the Second Coming as well? Where in the text is that found?

You think the dead will remain dead when they stand before the great white throne? Do you know how ridiculous that is? Just because it doesn't spell it out for people like you who have no discernment doesn't mean the dead are not resurrected first before standing before the throne to be judged.

It says earlier in the chapter (Rev 20:5) that the rest of the dead would be resurrected after the thousand years. When else are they resurrected if not at the judgment to be judged? If they're not resurrected to be judged, then what happens to "the rest of the dead" after they are resurrected?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

What wicked humans? Point out where wicked humans are addressed in Revelation 20.

LOL!!!

Do you expect to be taken seriously? I hope not, because no one can take you seriously when you say things like this. Is Revelation 20:7-15 in your Bible?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

So, the dead wicked are raised in incorruptible physical bodies and overrun the millennium as the sand of the sea in their billions?

Yep, that's what he believes. He believes they will have incorruptible, yet somehow mortal, bodies despite the fact that the words "incorruptible" and "immortal" mean the same thing. It's beyond nonsense.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Really? Why would the dead wicked be ever resurrected? What do you think a resurrection should entail? Everlasting life or total corruption for all eternity?

Why are you not accepting what Jesus taught?

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

He very clearly taught that the dead wicked will be resurrected and condemned. It's undeniable. You need to adjust your beliefs accordingly.

 

[sovereigngrace]

They are the future, and have not been born yet. Where do humans come from? This is a serious question? Where did you come from? Where does any one come from? I thought that it is obvious where people come from.

Who are they? In one breath you say all wicked humans are destroyed at the coming of Christ, in the next you fill your millennium with them. This doesn’t make sense.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Who are they? In one breath you say all wicked humans are destroyed at the coming of Christ, in the next you fill your millennium with them. This doesn’t make sense.

Yes, he, like Amils, does believe that all wicked humans will be destroyed at the second coming of Christ. But, he has also said before that he believes the first resurrection will be a mass resurrection of people with incorruptible (but somehow mortal) bodies and they will be the ones who initially populate the millennium. And then they will have children and their children will have children and so on.

But, of course, scripture never teaches that people will be resurrected with mortal bodies in the future. His idea that they will have incorruptible, but not immortal, bodies is as ludicrous as anything I've ever seen stated on this forum. The words incorruptible and immortal mean the same thing.