What Christian based groups respect the Saturday Sabbath today?

[LoveGodsWord]

The issue concerned which literature is handed out. The claim had been made that what Ellen G. White had to say is just her own thinking, etc., and that it's the Bible that SDAs follow. Well, in real life, the first and only literature that was handed to me by representatives of the church was Ellen G. White's book entitled The Great Controversy.

From my understanding the SDA Church shares God's Word with others in a variety of ways as God guides us. There is no policy for sharing God's Word in the SDA Church except through following the bibles example of Jesus and the Apostles. Sharing Christian literature is one of many ways we seek to share Christ with others. I asked you earlier, have you even read The Great Controversy, Steps to Christ or Desire of Ages? If you have what are they about? If you have never read any of these books, then what is it that you are complaining about? As for me I have personally read these books and can tell you that they are all Christian literature based on scripture and made to lead others to Christ through His Word.

I also asked you do you or any other Christian Church share Christian literature to people that are interested in finding out about Jesus? Also, whoever wrote your churches, literature who's thinking is that? If so what makes what your doing any different to what the SDA Church is doing in seeking to win souls to Jesus? God has blessed our work and today our Church has grown to over 20 Million people world-wide and is continuing to grow. That is not such a bad thing like your trying to make out now is it? This after all is a part of our gospel commission to all nations as Jesus asks us to do in Matthew 28:19. Please forgive me dear friend I do not know what your arguing about which is why I am asking you questions which you seem to avoid answering.

Take Care

 

[BobRyan]

We have the Messianic movement which I see as being very Biblical and true.

We have the Seventh Day Adventists which seem at first to be very Biblical but their embracing of their founder Ellen White I find very problematic because of the way she adds to things she talks about in the Bible. We're told in no uncertain terms not to do that. They call her a prophet but I find her prophecies much like other so called prophets: They make lots of nebulous, very general predictions and in hoping something is going to pan out. Nostradamus did exactly the same. And they never seem to talk about all the prophecies that didn't pan out. But besides her they seem alright I guess. I've listened to a lot of Doug Bachelor talks and find them very good though he doesn't seem to be the most spirit filled preacher I've ever heard. But maybe that's good. And he rarely mentions White.

So who else is out there that respects the Saturday Sabbath today?

1. No doctrines in the SDA church are based on a statement from Ellen White. All of the SDA doctrines stand or fall - sola scriptura.
2. That does not mean that everyone with a Bible will be SDA any more than Baptists claiming to test their own doctrine "sola scriptura" - means that everyone with a Bible will be Baptist.
3. The Bible doctrine on prophets and the gift of prophecy never states that every prophet known and approved by God in the Bible - did nothing but "paraphrase Moses". Rather God was able to give details to other prophets not already stated in one of the books of Moses. For example John the baptizer points to Jesus of Nazareth , a carpenter - as the Messiah even though Moses never mentions Nazareth or carpentry as being related to the Messiah.

==============

My point here is that our differences turn out to be on "Bible doctrine" and there is no argument from SDAs that is of the form "Please accept Ellen White as a prophet so you can agree with our doctrine". We never make that argument.

Christianity Today in its Jan 22, 2015 article on Seventh-day Adventists and Ben Carson point out that the SDA denomination is the fastest growing and fifth largest Christian denomination in the world. But that does not happen by telling everyone to first accept prophetic messages given to Ellen White. Rather it happens by a sola-scriptura review of the Bible doctrines.

 

[BobRyan]

They call her a prophet but I find her prophecies much like other so called prophets: They make lots of nebulous, very general predictions and in hoping something is going to pan out. Nostradamus did exactly the same.

Well that is not true in Ellen White's case.

In 1915 America was a fledgling military power - with almost no Navy, a tiny army and no capacity to project power as compared to the other world powers -- but in the 1850's Ellen White predicted America would become the world's leading super power.

In the mid 1800's there was a strong rift between the Vatican and the United states - yet Ellen White predicted a complete reversal of that relationship.

========================
No "Boat message" before Noah.
No "Messiah is a Carpenter from Nazareth" info for the saints before John.

1. No accurate statement on what exactly is the upcoming Rev 13 'Mark of the beast" prior to Ellen White.
2. No indication about the "sign" given in Matt 24 to flee to the mountains prior to the great tribulation at end of time -- prior to Ellen White.
3. No information on the Joel 2 - end time Latter Rain - what triggers it, what is it for -- prior to Ellen White.
4. No information on the Rev 15:8 event that precedes the Rev 16 seven last plagues event - prior to Ellen White.

So she does provide not only eye-witness accounts of fall of Lucifer, fall of Adam, Flood, the resurrection of Christ, resurrection of the saints, Crucifixion of Christ, ascension of Christ, Saints raptured, saints entering heaven for the first time, Great White throne judgment, resurrection of the wicked in the 2nd resurrection, plans of Satan at the end of time and how God defeats them... but also important explanations of key end time symbols and types in the Bible.

 

[Torah Keeper]

I attended the SDA church for years. They certainly follow Ellen White as a prophetess. Part of their creed at baptism is the affirmation in the writings and doctrines of Ellen White. Just because a few fringe SDAs such as yourselves do not believe Ellen White was a prophetess, does not mean you speak for the SDA church as a whole. Ellen White is to the SDA church as Joseph Smith is to the Mormons.

Step up to Messianic if you are an SDA but you don't believe in Ellen White.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I attended the SDA church for years. They certainly follow Ellen White as a prophetess. Part of their creed at baptism is the affirmation in the writings and doctrines of Ellen White. Just because a few fringe SDAs such as yourselves do not believe Ellen White was a prophetess, does not mean you speak for the SDA church as a whole. Ellen White is to the SDA church as Joseph Smith is to the Mormons.

Step up to Messianic if you are an SDA but you don't believe in Ellen White.

Your spreading misinformation again. I do not know anyone that follows EGW over the bible. Even EGW taught Gods Word is first above all things. What SDA here at CF have you ever heard talk EGW over the bible? Let's talk scripture. Is prophecy a gift of the Spirit for Gods Church, yes or no? How is being Messianic a "step up" over being SDA? Aren't the teachings of Messianics simply promoting old covenant "shadow laws" already fulfilled and continued in Christ under the new covenant?

Take Care.

 

[Torah Keeper]

Misinformation? What's next, Mormons reject Joseph Smith? Catholics reject the Pope? Come on....Ellen White IS the SDA equivalent of the Orthodox Jew Talmud. She is the final authority on all things in the SDA church. Nothing can go against her or you are ousted from the church.

I attended SDA churches for years. Listen to yourself. You are a flat earther, Ellen White denier, identifying as an SDA. Nothing happened in 1844. The 2300 days was fulfilled in Maccabees. (1 Maccabees ch 4 even tells us to count the days the Temple was defiled).

Messianic is a step up in my opinion, and I am entitled to my own opinion. Shadow laws? Do you understand these are shadows of what is coming? Has Trumpets, Atonement, or Tabernacles been fulfilled? Is fulfilled a synonym for abolished? Read Zechariah 14 before you reply back.

Continue to study and hopefully you will indeed step up and out of Ellen White's shadow and recognize the root of the olive tree is Messianic Israel.

Have a blessed day.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Misinformation? What's next, Mormons reject Joseph Smith? Catholics reject the Pope? Come on....Ellen White IS the SDA equivalent of the Orthodox Jewish Talmud. She is the final authority on all things in the SDA church. Nothing can go against her or you are ousted from the church.

I attended SDA churches for years. Listen to yourself. You are a flat earther, Ellen White denier, identifying as an SDA. Nothing happened in 1844. The 2300 days was fulfilled in Maccabees. (1 Maccabees ch 4 even tells us to count the days the Temple was defiled).

Messianic is a step up in my opinion, and I am entitled to my own opinion. Shadow laws? Do you understand these are shadows of what is coming? Has Trumpets, Atonement, or Tabernacles been fulfilled? Is fulfilled a synonym for abolished? Read Zechariah 14 before you reply back.

Continue to study and hopefully you will indeed step up and out of Ellen White's shadow and recognize the root of the olive tree is Messianic Israel.

Have a blessed day.

Here we go again more misinformation. I asked you to talk scripture and you want to talk EGW. I asked you is prophecy a gift of the Spirit for Gods' new covenant Church and all I hear is Mormons and Joseph Smith and EGW is the equivalent of orthodox Jewish Talmud and she is the final authority of all things in the SDA Church all of which is once again misinformation and nothing to do with the scriptures I asked of you. Your response to me asking for scripture is....

Torah keeper wrote "Listen to yourself. You are a flat earther, Ellen White denier, identifying as an SDA. Nothing happened in 1844. The 2300 days was fulfilled in Maccabees. (1 Maccabees ch 4 even tells us to count the days the Temple was defiled)."

Nope once again more misinformation and no scripture. Maccabees simply being Apocrypha and not the bible and still even the book of Maccabees does not support your claims that the anti type of Gods' Judgement in the great day of atonement has commenced for God's people. Yet here I am still waiting for scripture that supports anything you have claimed here and all you want to talk about is EGW and your opinions? You are indeed entitled to your opinion I am not stating otherwise. I simply asked you for a scriptural view as to why you think being Messianic is a "step up" over being SDA? Then I asked you a question, saying aren't the teachings of Messianic's simply promoting old covenant "shadow laws" already fulfilled and continued in Christ under the new covenant? If that is the case my opinion is that the claims to be "a step up" is not supported by the scriptures. You of course are entitled to your view. For me only Gods Word is true and we should believe and follow them over our opinions (Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29).

Take Care,

 

[Torah Keeper]

Zechariah 14? Tabernacles? Did you read it? Hello? SDAs do not keep this. So you guys will be punished with no rain during the Millenium.

Yes the Sabbath is important but so are ALL of God's Holy Days.

And Maccabees 1 and 2 were in the KJV Bible until 1885 IIRC. So chew on that.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Zechariah 14? Tabernacles? Did you read it? Hello? SDAs do not keep this. So you guys will be punished with no rain during the Millenium.
Yes the Sabbath is important but so are ALL of God's Holy Days.

The book of Maccabees is apocrypha meaning of unknown origin written in Greek somewhere between the end of the old covenant and the beginning of the new so no, it is not Canon scripture. What about Zachariah? This is in regards to the second coming. Feast of Tabernacles simply representing all those waiting for Christs second coming before they enter into God's true promised land (the new earth). Now let's talk scripture. No one today, truly keeps anyone of the old covenant Holy days or Feast days according to the scriptures, which were all "shadows of things to come" (Colossians 2:16-17). Without an earthly Sanctuary, and a Levite Priest all of which are fulfilled in Christ under the new covenant promises (see Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13: Hebrews 9:1-27 and Hebrews 10:1-22 no one can keep the old covenant annual Feast days according to the scriptures. Why live in the "shadows" of things to come? We are in the new covenant now not the old. SDA's do not keep the Feast days because they are "shadows" that are fulfilled and continued in Christ to who they all pointed to and Gods' plan of salvation yet to be revealed under the new covenant scriptures. As posted earlier no one can follow the old covenant holy day without an earthly Sanctuary, animal sacrifices and sin offerings and meat and drink offerings and a Levite Priest. Do you keep the holy days by offering up animal sacrifices in an earthly Sanctuary with a Levite Priest? If you do not then your not keeping the Feast days that were linked directly to the old covenant laws for remission of sins now fulfilled in Christ to who they pointed to.

 

[Torah Keeper]

No one keeps anyone of the old covenant Holy days or Feast days which were "shadows of things to come" according to the scripture (Colossians 2:16-17) without an earthly Sanctuary, and a Levite Priest all of which are fulfilled in Christ under the new covenant promises (see Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13: Hebrews 9:1-27 and Hebrews 10:1-22. Why live in the "shadows" of things to come? We are in the new covenant now not the old.

The Sabbath also had Temple offerings and sacrifices. Yet we still keep the Sabbath. Think about it. And then read Zechariah 14 again.

 

[Torah Keeper]

And you misquoted Paul. He said these ARE (present tense) shadows of things to come. Not WERE (past tense). Check the Greek if you don't believe me.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The Sabbath also had Temple offerings and sacrifices. Yet we still keep the Sabbath. Think about it. And then read Zechariah 14 again.

The Sabbath commandment of Gods' 10 commandments is not linked to any of the old covenant laws for remission of sins. It was made before law and sin and therefore simply continues in the new covenant because it was made outside of sin and law (Genesis 2:1-3).

 

[Torah Keeper]

So why will God command all nations(not just the land of Israel), to continue keeping Tabernacles in the future? And even punish those who refuse to keep it? And how does this compare with Isaiah 66, which speaks of the Sabbath and New Moons, of which Trumpets is a New Moon?

God does not contradict himself. The Sabbath is just one of the Holy Days. There are others.

EGW herself didn't seem to oppose keeping the Feasts. She even said it would be good to keep a Feast of Tabernacles. And I think the so-called "camp meetings" started as the Feast of Tabernacles. But people fell back into the very same LAWLESSNESS of the very same denomination they claim is the harlot of Revelation.

From the Biblical New Year---To Janus(JANUary 1) worship of a 2 faced idol.
From Passover---To Easter worship. Fertility goddess and bunnies laying eggs.
Tabernacles, the harvest festival---To Halloween. Devil worship. Even churches have a so-called harvest festival on October 31. This is the most sacred day of the year for WICCANS(witches).
From Shabbat---To SUNday. Worship of the sun as if it is a god.
Even Hannuka---To Christmas and Santa Claus worship. Offerings of milk and cookies to the false god.
See a pattern here?

All the Feast Days including minor festivals like Hannuka were replaced with worship of false gods.

What did Christ say about those who practice LAWLESSNESS?

The Law is more than the 10 Commandments. Certainly some Laws were temporary but for some, God said to keep them "FOREVER". So go through the Bible and make a list of all the Laws God said to keep "FOREVER" and it may open your eyes.

Be blessed and keep seeking truth.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

And you misquoted Paul. He said these ARE (present tense) shadows of things to come. Not WERE (past tense). Check the Greek if you don't believe me.

I did not misquote anyone and indeed God does not contradict himself. I simply stated that the Feast days are all shadows of things to come pointing to Jesus and Gods' plan of salvation under the new covenant. Some are already fulfilled and continued in Christ to who they pointed to. It is only the fall Feasts that have not been fulfilled. For example those Feast that are already fulfilled and continued in Christ to who they pointed to include...

1. Passover/Unleavened bread (see Passover Exodus 12:1-4; Leviticus 23:5; Numbers 9:1-14; 28:16; Deuteronomy 16:1-3, 4-7; Matthew 26:17;Mark 14:12-26; John 2:13; 11:55; fulfilled in Christ to who it pointed to in the new covenant 1 Corinthians 5:7; see Unleavened bread; Exodus 12:15-20; 39; Exodus 13:3-10; Exodus 23:15; Exodus 34:18; Leviticus 23:6-8; Numbers 28:17-25; Deuteronomy 16:3, 4, 8; Mark 14:1,12; Act of the Apostles 12:3; fulfilled in the truth of God's Word; 1 Corinthians 5:6-8

2. Feast of First fruits (see Exodus 23:19; 34:26; Leviticus 23:9-14; Deuteronomy 26:5,9-10;
Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:1-2; Luke 24:1; John 1:20; Romans 8:23; 1 Corinthians 15:20-23)

3. Feast of Weeks (Pentecost) (see Exodus 23:16; Exodus 34:22; Leviticus 23:15-21; Numbers 28:26-31; Deuteronomy 16:9-12; Act of the Apostles 2:1-4; Acts of the Apostles 20:16; 1 Corinthians 16:8)

We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. As posted earlier, according to the scriptures no one keeps any of the holy day of the old covenant without an earthly Sanctuary, animal sacrifices for sin offerings and blood atonement or a Levite Priest. These are also all fulfilled and continued in Christ to who they pointed to as shown in Hebrews 7:1-15; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27 and Hebrews 10:1-22 as God's sacrifice for the sins of the world once and for all *John 1:29; 36; Hebrews 10:10 and Jesus who is now our great high priest who ever lives to make intercession for us as our great High Priest of the order of Melchizedek in the heavenly Sanctuary of which the earthly was only a copy that the Lord pitched and not man based on better promises of the new covenant (Hebrews 8:1-6). The Feast of booths/Tabernacles simply represents all those who are waiting for the second coming of Christ in the clouds of Heaven.

We are in the new covenant now not the old.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So why will God command all nations(not just the land of Israel), to continue keeping Tabernacles in the future? And even punish those who refuse to keep it? And how does this compare with Isaiah 66, which speaks of the Sabbath and New Moons, of which Trumpets is a New Moon? God does not contradict himself. The Sabbath is just one of the Holy Days. There are others.

According to the scriptures as posted earlier Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandants is outside of the feast days because it was made at creation on the "seventh day" of the creation week and tied into a continuous weekly cycle made before sin and before law. There was no Mosaic shadow laws for remission of sins before there was sin at creation when the Sabbath was made for all mankind (Mark 2:27). All the Mosaic "shadow laws" were made and given to mankind after sin not before. So the Sabbath cannot be a "shadow law" of anything because it points backward to the finished work of creation not forwards to things to come. The purpose of the new moons was to determine the seasons or starting of the Feast days. According to Isaiah 66:22-23 the New moons and the Sabbath will be continued in the new heavens and the new earth. So what does that mean? It simply means that they will be continued to be kept in the new earth and everyone in the new earth will come to worship the Lord at these appointed times in the new moons and the Sabbath.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

From the Biblical New Year---To Janus(JANUary 1) worship of a 2 faced idol.
From Passover---To Easter worship. Fertility goddess and bunnies laying eggs.
Tabernacles, the harvest festival---To Halloween. Devil worship. Even churches have a so-called harvest festival on October 31. This is the most sacred day of the year for WICCANS(witches).
From Shabbat---To SUNday. Worship of the sun as if it is a god.
Even Hannuka---To Christmas and Santa Claus worship. Offerings of milk and cookies to the false god.
See a pattern here?

No. I don't know what this has to do with our discussion. Do SDA's follow paganism? Nope.

All the Feast Days including minor festivals like Hannuka were replaced with worship of false gods.

Ok and your point here is? No one keeps any old covenant Feast days without an earthly Sanctuary, animal sacrifices for sin offerings and blood atonement and a Levite Priest, according to the scriptures. All of which are now fulfilled and continued in the new covenant through Christ (see Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27 and Hebrews 10:1-22) to who they pointed to. So do you keep the annual Feasts by offering up animal sacrifices with a Levite Priest in an earthly Sanctuary according to the the law of the annual Feast days of the old covenant as shown in the scriptures (see Numbers 28:11-24; Numbers 28:26-31; Numbers 29:1-6; Leviticus 16:5-10; Numbers 29:7-11 and Numbers 29:12-40)? If not are you really keeping the old covenant annual Feast days?

What did Christ say about those who practice LAWLESSNESS? The Law is more than the 10 Commandments. Certainly some Laws were temporary but for some, God said to keep them "FOREVER". So go through the Bible and make a list of all the Laws God said to keep "FOREVER" and it may open your eyes.
Be blessed and keep seeking truth.

God's 10 commandments are eternal moral laws. The Mosaic "shadow laws" in the Feast days are prophetic laws that are also eternal laws that are fulfilled and continued in Christ to who they pointed to and are continuing to be fulfilled in Gods' plan of salvation in the new covenant for all mankind according to the scriptures.

Take Care.

 

[BobRyan]

I attended the SDA church for years. They certainly follow Ellen White as a prophetess

A great many Christians who read their Bibles admit that prophets of God have existed - some wrote scripture and some did not.

But the point remains that all doctrines of the SDA church are proven "sola scriptura" and that includes our position on accepting what the Bible teaches about the gift of prophecy.

Just because a few fringe SDAs such as yourselves do not believe Ellen White was a prophetess, does not mean you speak for the SDA church as a whole.

Who is the world is that statement directed to???

Ellen White is to the SDA church as Joseph Smith is to the Mormons.

Until you actually take the time to study with Mormons and contrast that to the Sola Scriptura method used in SDA Bible studies.

Details matter. Misinformation - not so much.

 

[BobRyan]

So why will God command all nations(not just the land of Israel), to continue keeping Tabernacles in the future? And even punish those who refuse to keep it? And how does this compare with Isaiah 66, which speaks of the Sabbath and New Moons, of which Trumpets is a New Moon?

There were two futures for Israel before they rejected the Messiah - they could either accept, or reject Him.

The OT does not just predict doom and fail for Israel it presents both future scenarios and warns against failing.