Evidence of miracles.

[Astrid]

O.k. I get what you're saying. But that's not what's happening here. There's so much MORE to 'grammatical errors' that has to do with the truth. Even if the you received an email from some "government official", you might know it's a scam.

But does that mean that EVERYTHING they're saying is a lie?

Nothing thats acceptable in court has ever been
put forth to indicate " they' are reliable witnesses.
Its been the opposite.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Some people treat Oprah as a God.

At least we could hold Oprah accountable for all of the damage she's done peddling woo and nonsense. Not to mention the various other nonsense peddlers she's foist upon us all. [The Secret, Dr. Oz, "Dr. Phil", Mariane williamson, just for starters.]

Come to think of it Oprah is just the worst.

 

[Tinker Grey]

I notice that in this thread miracle has been watered down by some to God just "influencing" people. Where are the healed amputees? Where are the moved mountains? Were there no Christians around to pray the bullets away in the Mall Of America? I've a glass of water next to me; someone please turn it to wine.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I've a glass of water next to me; someone please turn it to wine.

If I can get access to a vineyard, a grape press, and some fermenting vats I can get on that.

 

[Tinker Grey]

If I can get access to a vineyard, a grape press, and some fermenting vats I can get on that.

Now, now. No resorting to the natural. I want supernatural, baby. Mebbe if you teleport my water while I'm watching you can get partial credit.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I notice that in this thread miracle has been watered down by some to God just "influencing" people. Where are the healed amputees? Where are the moved mountains? Were there no Christians around to pray the bullets away in the Mall Of America? I've a glass of water next to me; someone please turn it to wine.

UngggHGHHHGH!! Done. It is now wine. It may be just a tad on the weak side. Go ahead and taste it.

 

[Tinker Grey]

UngggHGHHHGH!! Done. It is now wine. It may be just a tad on the weak side. Go ahead and taste it.

Er...um...Sorry, not even a hint of grape. How about levitating that dead tree stump and tossing it on the burn pile?

 

[partinobodycular]

A house, a car, a marriage, but amputees are out of luck...

I'm amazed that no one has mentioned the Miracle of Calanda yet. It's the old reliable amputee rebuttal.

Miracle of Calanda - Wikipedia

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I'm amazed that no one has mentioned the Miracle of Calanda yet. It's the old reliable amputee rebuttal.

Miracle of Calanda - Wikipedia

Frankly, I'd be surprised if a 17th century rumour is all there is.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Now, now. No resorting to the natural. I want supernatural, baby. Mebbe if you teleport my water while I'm watching you can get partial credit.

Computer-- Dispose of water, I'll have a glass of the '47 Chateau Picard instead.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Computer-- Dispose of water, I'll have a glass of the '47 Chateau Picard instead.

It's a Festivus miracle!

 

[Subduction Zone]

Er...um...Sorry, not even a hint of grape. How about levitating that dead tree stump and tossing it on the burn pile?

Oh no. Another scoffer with undeveloped taste buds. And now he wants me to do his chores!

 

[Tinker Grey]

Oh no. Another scoffer with undeveloped taste buds. And now he wants me to do his chores!

You wouldn't believe how much I get done with tactics like these!

 

[Subduction Zone]

You wouldn't believe how much I get done with tactics like these!

Well it has to be more successful than my attempt at wine making.

 

[NxNW]

Whoa...who said that? Can't it be BOTH?

How could it be both? Give me an example. If it's something like God started a chain of events that led to a job opening etc etc, I'd want to know where the forces of nature were violated so that we can differentiate good luck and preparation from actual miracles.

I once attended a church service in which the speaker talked about how he lost his car keys, and he looked everywhere. Finally, he took a second look in a place he'd checked earlier, and there they were. A miracle!, he pronounced. Am I to believe God transported the keys to that location, or maybe the guy just *thought* he'd checked there earlier? Which is more likely?

It sure seems like there is a lot of needless suffering in the world that would be a bigger priority than missing car keys or a new job.

 

[Mink61]

How could it be both? Give me an example. If it's something like God started a chain of events that led to a job opening etc etc, I'd want to know where the forces of nature were violated so that we can differentiate good luck and preparation from actual miracles.

It can be both. Yes, we have free will. And yes, sometimes God intervenes. Not so much interferes, but intervenes. After all, He's the one with the plan. When my kids were growing up, they had a ton of 'free will'...until it came to something they wanted to do that would hurt themselves and/or others. That's when *I* stepped in.

As for 'good luck', I don't believe in luck. Nothing to me is 'random'. If I try to look at this planet through God's eyes, the things that are happening now, have already happened to Him. No surprises. At least, no surprises to Him.

I once attended a church service in which the speaker talked about how he lost his car keys, and he looked everywhere. Finally, he took a second look in a place he'd checked earlier, and there they were. A miracle!, he pronounced. Am I to believe God transported the keys to that location, or maybe the guy just *thought* he'd checked there earlier? Which is more likely?

Transported? Maybe...I've had similar experiences. But I don't chalk it up to something like that.

More like, he felt a 'nudge' from God to check the place he already looked before. While he may have been frantically searching for his keys, there may have been a "quiet voice" (no, I don't mean that we're 'hearing voices', lol!) that calmly said, "Check there again".

It sure seems like there is a lot of needless suffering in the world that would be a bigger priority than missing car keys or a new job.

Are you sure it's "needless"?

 

[Astrid]

It can be both. Yes, we have free will. And yes, sometimes God intervenes. Not so much interferes, but intervenes. After all, He's the one with the plan. When my kids were growing up, they had a ton of 'free will'...until it came to something they wanted to do that would hurt themselves and/or others. That's when *I* stepped in.

As for 'good luck', I don't believe in luck. Nothing to me is 'random'. If I try to look at this planet through God's eyes, the things that are happening now, have already happened to Him. No surprises. At least, no surprises to Him.


Transported? Maybe...I've had similar experiences. But I don't chalk it up to something like that.

More like, he felt a 'nudge' from God to check the place he already looked before. While he may have been frantically searching for his keys, there may have been a "quiet voice" (no, I don't mean that we're 'hearing voices', lol!) that calmly said, "Check there again".


Are you sure it's "needless"?

Look through Gods eyes

 

[Mink61]

Look through Gods eyes

God's eyes tell me that EVERYTHING is a miracle. We're not just here on this planet because of some 'random' act of "nature". Life is too 'perfect' for that. A miniscule closer to the sun, we'd burn up. A miniscule farther away, we'd freeze. If gravity changed one direction or another, we wouldn't exist...

It's all just too complicated...and 'perfect' for *me* to dismiss a 'Creator' of some sort...

 

[NxNW]

It can be both. Yes, we have free will. And yes, sometimes God intervenes. Not so much interferes, but intervenes. After all, He's the one with the plan.

If God had a plan a billion years ago, why does he have to intervene over and over in modern times? Why couldn't he anticipate everything and get it right the first time?

When my kids were growing up, they had a ton of 'free will'...until it came to something they wanted to do that would hurt themselves and/or others. That's when *I* stepped in.

If you were omniscient, you wouldn't have to step in, because you could have given them perfect instructions and prevented any possible mishap.

As for 'good luck', I don't believe in luck. Nothing to me is 'random'. If I try to look at this planet through God's eyes, the things that are happening now, have already happened to Him. No surprises. At least, no surprises to Him.

You haven't answered my question. When and where does God break the laws of nature in the 'new job' or 'financial windfall' examples?

Is there any evidence of God nudging the guy to look again for the car keys? Why not just prevent them from being lost in the first place?

Transported? Maybe...I've had similar experiences. But I don't chalk it up to something like that.

More like, he felt a 'nudge' from God to check the place he already looked before. While he may have been frantically searching for his keys, there may have been a "quiet voice" (no, I don't mean that we're 'hearing voices', lol!) that calmly said, "Check there again".

Meanwhile women were being raped, children being murdered, kittens being abused, etc and God took no action because the car keys were more important?

Mysterious ways, indeed.

Are you sure it's "needless"?

If the Holocaust was necessary, while car keys need to be found thru divine intervention, I await your insight. I'm serious, no flippancy here.

 

[NxNW]

Perhaps, but when it comes to miracle claims they are not that reliable. I can name other cases too where the Catholic church is definitely not reliable.

It's not like they protect child molesters. Oh, wait...