Premillennialism ignores the tenses in the original Greek in order to sustain its teaching

[sovereigngrace]

I have debunked Amil left and right numerous times, as others have done as well. That has to account for something.

Per Amil those that surround the city after the thousand years are meaning the masses that are already deceived during the thousand years. It makes zero sense that satan is then loosed to deceive the masses already deceived.

Premil makes more sense in this regard. These masses would know the truth during the thousand years, thus no longer deceived. You then have satan deceiving those no longer deceived, unlike Amil who has satan deceiving the masses already deceived.

Not true, and you know it. When the heat is cranked up on Premil, you quickly run or change subjects. For you to admit the numerous Premil contractions would force you to be an Amil. And you simply are not prepared to go there.

I recommend the reader check any interaction between you and Amils and they will see that over and over again.

By your constant avoidance, you are the greatest example here of the non-corroborative nature of Premil.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Who said anything about REV 20 but you? That is not where it tells us about Israel getting saved.

Where is your proof and on what grounds?

 

[power1]

Check out posts #1721, #1726, #1737 and #1738.

Just post your main point. I'll try to make short work of it

 

[sovereigngrace]

Just post your main point. I'll try to make short work of it

Corroboration is what kills Premil. It has nothing. The rejection of Premil is based on the reality:

· It is built of one passage located in the most symbolic setting in Scripture that enjoys no corroboration for all of its main tenets anywhere in Scripture.
· Everywhere else in the Bible shows us that the coming of the Lord is the end. It is the end of incorruption, mortal man and the end of time.
· The Bible only recognizes a 2-age model, that of this evil age and the perfect age to come. Premil invents a 3rd age through their faulty understanding of this lone chapter

Zechariah 14 is Premillennialism's supposed main corroboration for their opinion of Revelation 20. Yet, when you look at both passages there is absolutely no correlation between these whatsoever. The fact that no Premillennialist is able to do a correlation between these is testimony to the fact that Premillennialism has zero corroboration. This exposes the fragility of the belief. The pressure is therefore upon them to prove that this is describing a future millennium. The burden of proof sits with them. The fact is: there is nothing here to suggest such. Until they present a clear correlation, we can reject their thesis as forced and unbiblical.

 

[Timtofly]

That's not at all what I said.

Again, that's not at all what I said. Do you even make any effort at all to understand what you're reading?

If the saints meet God in mid air, how can they gather as sheep with the goats before this throne? When you imply it is the same event, you have to explain how the goats cannot do the same thing as the sheep, if you insist the sheep are the ones meeting Christ in the air.

I said the church are not the sheep. The church meets Christ in mid air. The sheep do not.

So my opinion is different from yours, and since you place this throne not on earth, what else am I to assume? The rapture and Second Coming do not happen the same day heaven and earth pass away, and the GWT is not the one in Matthew 25. Not figuratively nor literally. Did Christ not enter His eternal rest, the week of the Cross? Why would those in Christ not also be in their eternal state of rest? No living human can prevent that, and living humans are definitely not in their eternal state, even if they are spiritually born, the second birth. The second birth is not the first resurrection. It happens when we are still physically alive. Show me how works mentioned in Matthew 25 is equivalent to the spiritual birth? When we stand before God, are you going to claim your works got you to heaven, or the redemption of the second birth, or the fact you were physically resurrected? Now what would Jesus say got you there? Your works on earth, your physical resurrection, or His shed Blood? Now why would He not mention, His shed Blood in Matthew 25? The word sheep does not mean redeemed. Isaiah 53:6.

"All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."

Being a sheep, points to the fact all need to be redeemed. Being a goat means all will not be redeemed. But until one stands at that throne in Jerusalem after the Second Coming, they do not know if they are a sheep or goat. We are not sheep. We are redeemed sons of God. Meaning we have the second birth, we are now born from above, no longer a sheep, needing a shepherd. We have moved from being a sheep, to being a son. Nowhere in Matthew 25 are they called sons of God, nor joint heirs.

"Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"

They are righteous, and their sins no longer exist. They inherit the kingdom. This is the end of Daniel's 70th week for them. They do so on earth for 1000 years. They are priest who rule and reign, like the church currently does. But they are never called sons of God. They only reign with Christ, not as Christ. They will have a physical resurrection. They cannot face the GWT, nor the second death. Yet your theology claims no one can be just a sheep, and have eternal life, but not a son of God. I agree there are only righteous and unrighteous. However there are sons of God, there are sheep living on the earth who are not sons of God, because they do not have the full image of God. They cannot have lived prior to the Cross, nor could they have physically died before the Second Coming. If they had physically died prior to the Second Coming, they would be either in Paradise or sheol. Only the sheep (of Matthew 25) are alive and on earth at the Second Coming. And these sheep certainly did not join the church in the rapture, because they stood before Christ after the Second Coming. They were called out of the Nations and brought to Jerusalem by the angels. There is a difference between hearing the voice of Jesus and meeting Him in mid air, as opposed to being gathered by the angels and brought to Jesus physically sitting in judgment in Jerusalem.

 

[power1]

As you well know, Amils do not fictionalize the thousand years. That is Full Preterism. They interpret it figuratively, as it is used throughout Scripture and throughout history. You fight the obvious. Premil is a zero- corroboration theory that is imposed most the most highly debated passage in the most obscure setting in Scripture. They have nothing else. Nothing! Zilch! Nada!

Moses employs `a thousand' in Deuteronomy 7:9 saying, "Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

1 Chronicles 16:13-17 also states, "O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones. He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth. Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations; Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac; And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

A thousand and ten thousand are used together in Psalm 91, saying, "Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee" (vv 5-7).

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

A similar contrast between these two numbers or ideas is seen in Deuteronomy 32:30, where a rhetorical question is asked, "How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the Lord had shut them up?"

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Joshua affirms, on the same vein, in chapter 23, "One man of you shall chase a thousand: for the LORD your God, he it is that fighteth for you, as he hath promised you" (v 10).

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Isaiah the prophet similarly declares in Isaiah 30:17, "one thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one."

This incidentally is the only passage in Scripture that makes mention of the actual number "one thousand," albeit, the term is used to impress a spiritual truth.

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Psalm 84:9-10 says, "Behold, O God our shield, and look upon the face of thine anointed. For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

The figure a thousand is also employed in Psalm 50:10-11 saying, "For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Ecclesiastes 7:27-28 succinctly says, "one man among a thousand have I found."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

In the same vein, Job 33:23 declares, "If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

The distinct contrast between one and a thousand is again found in Job 9:2-3, where Job declares, "I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God? If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

I asked for your main point and we get multi coloured spam. I take it your main point is that you think the thousand years is not real? If so, how about the three and a half year Great Tribulation? Is that to be waved away also? Or do we just check in with you to see what to keep?

 

[power1]

Where is your proof and on what grounds?

If the topic is Israel getting saved, why would I look at that chapter exactly?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

You said this "The second death IS the lake of fire and Jesus makes this judgment at his coming...," I see nothing in chapter 25 that mentions the lake of fire. However in Revelation we do see that the lake exists already when Jesus returns. So on that point, you could have some merit.

What is the following verse referring to, if not the lake of fire?

Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Obviously He returns before the 1000 years start, not when it ends.

Obviously, that is just your opinion based on the assumption that what is described in Revelation 20 chronologically follows what is described in Revelation 19.

The only ones who could possibly have the second death before the 1000 years would be those eternally judged before the 1000 years started. But it does seem you may have a point in that some are judged when He returns. The main judgment is after the 1000 years when the dead are raised. We would have all the people that die in the 1000 years that were not saved as well as all those who died before the time Jesus returned. In other words, I did not see verses that say the wicked dead get raised and judged when Jesus returns.
There are saints living at the end of that 1000 years also you know. Will He not also be glorified in them?

Where does scripture teach that there will be multiple judgment days? That's not what this says:

Acts 17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

This passage teaches that God has appointed a singular future day at which point He will judge "all people everywhere/the world/everyone "by the man he has appointed", which is obviously referring to Jesus. That singular judgment day is portrayed in Matthew 25:31-46.

They will pay the penalty. So are you saying that some of the wicked will have already faced their eternal judgment when Jesus comes? If so, there are still 'the rest of the dead' that are raised to be judged after the 1000 years. So at the least not all the wicked/dead are judged when He returns to earth.

Yes, they will be. How do you interpret this passage:

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

This is where Premil makes far more sense. Per Amil these in question here are already deceived during the thousand years, thus don't know the truth to begin with. You then have a scenario where satan is doing mass deceiving of those already deceived.

Amil does not believe that Satan will be loosed to deceive those who are already deceived. Amil has a much different understanding of Satan's binding than Premil does. How can you not understand that by now? You continue to misrepresent Amil even after being corrected so many times with a description of what we actually believe. Why?

 

[DavidPT]

Corroboration is what kills Premil. It has nothing. The rejection of Premil is based on the reality:

· It is built of one passage located in the most symbolic setting in Scripture that enjoys no corroboration for all of its main tenets anywhere in Scripture.
· Everywhere else in the Bible shows us that the coming of the Lord is the end. It is the end of incorruption, mortal man and the end of time.
· The Bible only recognizes a 2-age model, that of this evil age and the perfect age to come. Premil invents a 3rd age through their faulty understanding of this lone chapter

Zechariah 14 is Premillennialism's supposed main corroboration for their opinion of Revelation 20. Yet, when you look at both passages there is absolutely no correlation between these whatsoever. The fact that no Premillennialist is able to do a correlation between these is testimony to the fact that Premillennialism has zero corroboration. This exposes the fragility of the belief. The pressure is therefore upon them to prove that this is describing a future millennium. The burden of proof sits with them. The fact is: there is nothing here to suggest such. Until they present a clear correlation, we can reject their thesis as forced and unbiblical.

Off the top of my head here's some of my thinking involving some of this. I'm not even going to bother doing a commentary since it would be a big waste of time and typing on my part. We'll just let the Scriptures speak for themselves in this case.


BTW, this is not the first time I show a correlation involving this, yet you untruthfully claim no Premil has ever done this. Just because you might not agree, this is not the same as no Premil ever putting forth an effort to try and show a correlation.
-----------------------
Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
----------------------------------

Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all
-----------------------------------

Zechariah 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
---------------------------------------

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Isaiah 60:12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
----------------------------

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I asked for your main point and we get multi coloured spam. I take it your main point is that you think the thousand years is not real?

No, that wasn't his point at all. Amils believe that the thousand years represents an actual period of time (that began with Christ's resurrection), but we don't believe it's a literal thousand years. We believe the word "thousand" is used figuratively just as it is a number of times elsewhere in scripture as sovereigngrace showed in post #1760.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I have debunked Amil left and right numerous times, as others have done as well. That has to account for something.

Per Amil those that surround the city after the thousand years are meaning the masses that are already deceived during the thousand years. It makes zero sense that satan is then loosed to deceive the masses already deceived.

Premil makes more sense in this regard. These masses would know the truth during the thousand years, thus no longer deceived. You then have satan deceiving those no longer deceived, unlike Amil who has satan deceiving the masses already deceived.

Definition of debunk: to expose the falseness or hollowness of (a myth, idea, or belief). Based on this definition, you have never debunked Amil. You have tried to debunk it, but that's all.

And a majority of the time that you think you have debunked Amil you have debunked something that Amils don't even believe. You misrepresent our view constantly. Such as saying that we have Satan deceiving people who are already deceived. No, we do not. That would only be the case if we understood his binding the way Premils do, but we don't.

 

[sovereigngrace]

I asked for your main point and we get multi coloured spam. I take it your main point is that you think the thousand years is not real? If so, how about the three and a half year Great Tribulation? Is that to be waved away also? Or do we just check in with you to see what to keep?

Stop twisting what I said. It is real. It a figurative term. Thanks for your avoidance once more. The three and be a half year is also real. It could be literal or figurative. I am not sure. I relate it to Satan's little season before the second coming.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Off the top of my head here's some of my thinking involving some of this. I'm not even going to bother doing a commentary since it would be a big waste of time and typing on my part. We'll just let the Scriptures speak for themselves in this case.


BTW, this is not the first time I show a correlation involving this, yet you untruthfully claim no Premil has ever done this. Just because you might not agree, this is not the same as no Premil ever putting forth an effort to try and show a correlation.
-----------------------
Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
----------------------------------

Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all
-----------------------------------

Zechariah 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
---------------------------------------

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Isaiah 60:12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
----------------------------

This does not add up. You are cobbling up Scripture to support your own teaching. This is so wrong! I see you avoided verse 1. Where does the day of the Lord arrive in verse 1?

 

[sovereigngrace]

If the topic is Israel getting saved, why would I look at that chapter exactly?

Because you give Israel a preeminent place in your future millennium.

 

[DavidPT]

And a majority of the time that you think you have debunked Amil you have debunked something that Amils don't even believe. You misrepresent out view constantly. Such as saying that we have Satan deceiving people who are already deceived. No, we do not. That would only be the case if we understood his binding the way Premils do, but we don't.

The logic is this, assuming Amil. Those in Revelation 20:7-9 would obviously be alive during the final days of the thousand years, which means they were born during the thousand years. Do Amils dispute that?

The fact they are surrounding the city once satan is loosed, this alone tells us that these are not meaning saved undeceived Christians. These are meaning the unsaved deceived lost that were already unsaved during the thousand years, and are still unsaved when satan is loosed. Do Amils dispute that?

Are Amils going to argue that the lost aren't deceived? If they are not deceived, why aren't they saved, then?

 

[DavidPT]

This does not add up. You are cobbling up Scripture to support your own teaching. This is so wrong! I see you avoided verse 1. Where does the day of the Lord arrive in verse 1?

No matter how you look at it, Zechariah 14 involves the last days, the last days that began with the 1st coming.

According to the NT, where does it place the time of the day of the Lord? Does the NT record more than one day of the Lord in the last days?

As to the first question I asked, the NT places it involving the 2nd coming. As to the 2nd question I asked, the NT only records one day of the Lord in the last days, not multiple ones, unless you can provide some NT Scripture proving otherwise. Therefore, Zechariah 14.1 is connected with verses 3-5 in that chapter, and is meaning after the fulfilling of verse 2.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The logic is this, assuming Amil. Those in Revelation 20:7-9 would obviously be alive during the final days of the thousand years, which means they were born during the thousand years. Do Amils dispute that?

No.

The fact they are surrounding the city once satan is loosed, this alone tells us that these are not meaning saved undeceived Christians.

Obviously.

These are meaning the unsaved deceived lost that were already unsaved during the thousand years, and are still unsaved when satan is loosed. Do Amils dispute that?

No.

Are Amils going to argue that the lost aren't deceived?

No, of course not. What a silly question.

What you're not getting, and what I've tried to explain to you many times before, is that we don't see Satan's binding as a case of him being completely incapacitated and unable to deceive anyone at all in any way, shape or form as Premils do. Do you understand that?

Do you understand that Amils have a very different understanding of Satan's binding than Premils do? You act as if you don't understand that for some inexplicable reason despite being told the difference many times before. Our understanding of his binding relates to him being restrained from keeping the world in spiritual darkness and keeping the gospel from spreading throughout the world while shining the light of Christ on the world along with the hope of eternal life.

So, we see his little season as being a time when he is no longer restrained and is able to silence the preaching of the gospel while he unites unbelievers in opposition against the church worldwide with the goal of destroying the church.

I see the falling away that Paul wrote about in 2 Thess 2 as something that occurs during Satan's little season because the gospel is largely being muted during that time which results in many people falling away and following after false religions and philosophies instead.

 

[DavidPT]

Amil does not believe that Satan will be loosed to deceive those who are already deceived. Amil has a much different understanding of Satan's binding than Premil does. How can you not understand that by now? You continue to misrepresent Amil even after being corrected so many times with a description of what we actually believe. Why?

I addressed this in post #1776 via another post you had made to me. Feel free to show me why none of these things I'm arguing would be true if assuming Amil.

I now see where you did address that but I never noticed that post at the time when i was making this post. Getting ready to eat supper now. I will consider what you said in that post, after I eat.

 

[sovereigngrace]

The logic is this, assuming Amil. Those in Revelation 20:7-9 would obviously be alive during the final days of the thousand years, which means they were born during the thousand years. Do Amils dispute that?

The fact they are surrounding the city once satan is loosed, this alone tells us that these are not meaning saved undeceived Christians. These are meaning the unsaved deceived lost that were already unsaved during the thousand years, and are still unsaved when satan is loosed. Do Amils dispute that?

Are Amils going to argue that the lost aren't deceived? If they are not deceived, why aren't they saved, then?

Eric is right. After all these years, you do not seem to understand Amil or their opinion of Revelation 20. This chapter shows us that the binding of Satan facilitates the enlightenment of the Gentiles as a whole through the great commission. This is a generality. Satan is powerless to curtail the global invasion of the kingdom of darkness. He is powerless to stop the Church of Jesus Christ. With the global expanse of the great commission the Gentiles are now without excuse. The ignorance is gone. The veil is lifted. The means by which God lifts deception is the preaching of the Word of God. This has now been successfully ongoing throughout the nations for 2000 years. The Gospel is no longer limited to the small nation of Israel but was rather, through the life and work of Christ, opened up to all the nations.

The release of Satan at the end of the millennium sees the subjugation of the great commission and consequently the enlightenment of the nations. The devil will be able to curtail the evangelistic outreach of the true Church at the end. This is a generality. The spiritual restrains will be released on Satan and the beast/antichrist system at the end to curtail the global spread of the Gospel. Satan will be loosed for a short time. The one who "letteth," or restrains, will be taken out of the way (2 Thess 2:7). This enables Satan to establish his world-kingdom under antichrist. The result is the final, all-out assault upon the Church and her living, faithful members.

No matter how you look at it, Zechariah 14 involves the last days, the last days that began with the 1st coming.

According to the NT, where does it place the time of the day of the Lord? Does the NT record more than one day of the Lord in the last days?

As to the first question I asked, the NT places it involving the 2nd coming. As to the 2nd question I asked, the NT only records one day of the Lord in the last days, not multiple ones, unless you can provide some NT Scripture proving otherwise. Therefore, Zechariah 14.1 is connected with verses 3-5 in that chapter, and is meaning after the fulfilling of verse 2.

Your whole explanation is contradictory. If this is your millennium it is an absolute bust. It is a mess. It is full of war and terror.