Can Reality really truly exist?

dóxatotheó

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Hard question if reality only exist by our own consciousness, than how do you know we not dreaming and having a lucid dream within a dream within a dream and so on and so forth if reality truly exist than this consciousness should also have its very own awareness of its own dont you think, or theres a reason this reality is the true one and we not living in a dream? Are we awake within a dream or are our consciousness always existed without our existence?
 
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trophy33

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A dream, living in a simulation, its still the same thing - we cannot prove our world we live in is "real". We cannot even prove the existence of our own bodies or that other people are not just NPCs.

We can only know our own experiences are real and trust God that He controls all the chain of existence leading to us. And when other creatures act as concious, we must suppose they are and behave according to it.
 
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Halbhh

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Hard question if reality only exist by our own consciousness, than how do you know we not dreaming and having a lucid dream within a dream within a dream and so on and so forth if reality truly exist than this consciousness should also have its very own awareness of its own dont you think, or theres a reason this reality is the true one and we not living in a dream? Are we awake within a dream or are our consciousness always existed without our existence?
A dream, living in a simulation, its still the same thing - we cannot prove our world we live in is "real". We cannot even prove the existence of our own bodies or that other people are not just NPCs.

We can only know our own experiences are real and trust God that He controls all the chain of existence leading to us.

Have you ever walked into a door or glass patio door or a tree limb totally without expecting it (such as you thought the door was open and weren't looking, or never imagined there was a tree limb there, etc.)? What happens: you bump your head or body into the unexpected obstacle and it impedes you, maybe knocks you backward. Can be painful.

Now even though you did not imagine or expect that obstacle, it was nevertheless there, to your surprise, bashing into you, knocking you back.

Making you aware of the reality outside yourself, one not always aligned to what you imagine or expect or somehow perceive.

Something instead truly independent of you.

A very real reality outside of yourself.
 
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dóxatotheó

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Have you ever walked into a door or glass patio door or a tree limb totally without expecting it (such as you thought the door was open and weren't looking, or never imagined there was a tree limb there, etc.)? What happens: you bump your head or body into the unexpected obstacle and it impedes you, maybe knocks you backward. Can be painful.

Now even though you did not imagine or expect that obstacle, it was nevertheless there, to your surprise, bashing into you, knocking you back.

Making you aware of the reality outside yourself, one not always aligned to what you imagine or expect or somehow perceive.

Something instead fully and 100% independent of you.

A very real reality outside of yourself.
you can imagine pain in a dream not something impossible deep awareness of your outside existences is not possible simulating pain is always a possiblity
 
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Halbhh

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you can imagine pain in a dream not something impossible deep awareness of your outside existences is not possible simulating pain is always a possiblity
If a dream resulted in you feeling the impact and having a bruise, then it would be a significant thing in regard to the question of reality as compared to the self, but dreams don't give us bruises typically when we hit something in a dream, like the ground after falling through the air in a dream.
 
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public hermit

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Hard question if reality only exist by our own consciousness, than how do you know we not dreaming and having a lucid dream within a dream within a dream and so on and so forth if reality truly exist than this consciousness should also have its very own awareness of its own dont you think, or theres a reason this reality is the true one and we not living in a dream? Are we awake within a dream or are our consciousness always existed without our existence?

Maybe this sounds obvious, but the fact that we can make the distinction between a dream state and an awake state tells me that, on some level, we know the difference.

What I know is that I have never awoken from an awaken state, but I have awoken from every single dream state...so far. ;)
 
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Halbhh

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Hard question if reality only exist by our own consciousness, than how do you know we not dreaming and having a lucid dream within a dream within a dream and so on and so forth if reality truly exist than this consciousness should also have its very own awareness of its own dont you think, or theres a reason this reality is the true one and we not living in a dream? Are we awake within a dream or are our consciousness always existed without our existence?
I do think on the other hand that we often as people can have times in life (even years) where we can be like sleepers that could awaken more fully -- like a part of us asleep, that can awaken. And then when a times comes and we do awaken more fully, we notice the increased awareness.
 
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dóxatotheó

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If a dream resulted in you feeling the impact and having a bruise, then it would be a significant thing in regard to the question of reality as compared to the self, but dreams don't give us bruises typically when we hit something in a dream, like the ground after falling through the air in a dream.
so you saying typical dreams within a dream doesnt bring bruises so it negates the possibilities to bring other dream bruises to existence is just fallacious
 
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trophy33

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BTW the same problem was postulated by René Descartes in the 17th century:
1. Insanity argument (maybe I am insane)
2. Dreaming argument (maybe I am dreaming)
3. Evil agent/demon argument (maybe some powerful agent is deceiving me)
 
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dóxatotheó

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BTW the same problem was postulated by René Descartes:
1. Insanity argument (maybe I am insane)
2. Dreaming argument (maybe I am dreaming)
3. Evil agent/demon argument (maybe some powerful agent is deceiving me)
I got the argument from Descartes works
 
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dóxatotheó

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dóxatotheó

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Does the resolution involve God?
My resolution that knowing if your existence is real cannot be resolved without a infinite entity causing its own mere awareness of its existence. It can be God but my resolution more or less proves a soul existence than Gods existence because a singular entity existing with awareness without any physical entities making it aware in itself proves a soul.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Halbhh said...

"I do think on the other hand that we often as people can have times in life (even years) where we can be like sleepers that could awaken more fully -- like a part of us asleep, that can awaken. And then when a times comes and we do awaken more fully, we notice the increased awareness."


This can happen when we are born again...
 
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trophy33

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My resolution that knowing if your existence is real cannot be resolved without a infinite entity causing its own mere awareness of its existence. It can be God but my resolution more or less proves a soul existence than Gods existence because a singular entity existing with awareness without any physical entities making it aware in itself proves a soul.
If you doubt, you think. And if you think, you exist.

But it says something only about your own existence, it does not solve the problem of the existence of the external world.

Descartes then, after he proved his own existence, proves the existence of perfect God and from that he then continues to prove the truth of our external world.
 
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Halbhh

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so you saying typical dreams within a dream doesnt bring bruises so it negates the possibilities to bring other dream bruises to existence is just fallacious
Well, I've not gotten experiential impacts in a dream (other than the beside the topic thing of falling from a bed), so I don't know that any exist. Waking life seems to include a very real external reality as I was pointing out in my earlier post (post #3).
 
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