• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.
  7. There has been an addition to the announcement regarding unacceptable nick names. The phrase "Let's go Brandon" actually stands for a profanity and will be seen as a violation of the profanity rule in the future.

Can Reality really truly exist?

Discussion in 'The Kitchen Sink' started by dóxatotheó, Dec 7, 2021.

  1. dóxatotheó

    dóxatotheó Orthodox Church Familia

    991
    +299
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    Hard question if reality only exist by our own consciousness, than how do you know we not dreaming and having a lucid dream within a dream within a dream and so on and so forth if reality truly exist than this consciousness should also have its very own awareness of its own dont you think, or theres a reason this reality is the true one and we not living in a dream? Are we awake within a dream or are our consciousness always existed without our existence?
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

    +1,631
    Netherlands
    Christian
    Single
    A dream, living in a simulation, its still the same thing - we cannot prove our world we live in is "real". We cannot even prove the existence of our own bodies or that other people are not just NPCs.

    We can only know our own experiences are real and trust God that He controls all the chain of existence leading to us. And when other creatures act as concious, we must suppose they are and behave according to it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2021
  3. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

    +7,906
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Have you ever walked into a door or glass patio door or a tree limb totally without expecting it (such as you thought the door was open and weren't looking, or never imagined there was a tree limb there, etc.)? What happens: you bump your head or body into the unexpected obstacle and it impedes you, maybe knocks you backward. Can be painful.

    Now even though you did not imagine or expect that obstacle, it was nevertheless there, to your surprise, bashing into you, knocking you back.

    Making you aware of the reality outside yourself, one not always aligned to what you imagine or expect or somehow perceive.

    Something instead truly independent of you.

    A very real reality outside of yourself.
     
  4. dóxatotheó

    dóxatotheó Orthodox Church Familia

    991
    +299
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    you can imagine pain in a dream not something impossible deep awareness of your outside existences is not possible simulating pain is always a possiblity
     
  5. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

    +7,906
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    If a dream resulted in you feeling the impact and having a bruise, then it would be a significant thing in regard to the question of reality as compared to the self, but dreams don't give us bruises typically when we hit something in a dream, like the ground after falling through the air in a dream.
     
  6. public hermit

    public hermit social troglodyte Supporter

    +8,405
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    Maybe this sounds obvious, but the fact that we can make the distinction between a dream state and an awake state tells me that, on some level, we know the difference.

    What I know is that I have never awoken from an awaken state, but I have awoken from every single dream state...so far. ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  7. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

    +7,906
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    I do think on the other hand that we often as people can have times in life (even years) where we can be like sleepers that could awaken more fully -- like a part of us asleep, that can awaken. And then when a times comes and we do awaken more fully, we notice the increased awareness.
     
  8. dóxatotheó

    dóxatotheó Orthodox Church Familia

    991
    +299
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    so you saying typical dreams within a dream doesnt bring bruises so it negates the possibilities to bring other dream bruises to existence is just fallacious
     
  9. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

    +1,631
    Netherlands
    Christian
    Single
    BTW the same problem was postulated by René Descartes in the 17th century:
    1. Insanity argument (maybe I am insane)
    2. Dreaming argument (maybe I am dreaming)
    3. Evil agent/demon argument (maybe some powerful agent is deceiving me)
     
  10. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

    +5,883
    Lutheran
    Married
    US-Others
    The question is not can reality exist. By the very definition of the term reality is all that exists. The question is what is real and what is not.
     
  11. dóxatotheó

    dóxatotheó Orthodox Church Familia

    991
    +299
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    I got the argument from Descartes works
     
  12. dóxatotheó

    dóxatotheó Orthodox Church Familia

    991
    +299
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    great observation and imput!
     
  13. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

    +1,631
    Netherlands
    Christian
    Single
    And you are not satisfied with his solutions? :)
     
  14. dóxatotheó

    dóxatotheó Orthodox Church Familia

    991
    +299
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    my resolution is similar but not the same
     
  15. public hermit

    public hermit social troglodyte Supporter

    +8,405
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    Does the resolution involve God?
     
  16. dóxatotheó

    dóxatotheó Orthodox Church Familia

    991
    +299
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    My resolution that knowing if your existence is real cannot be resolved without a infinite entity causing its own mere awareness of its existence. It can be God but my resolution more or less proves a soul existence than Gods existence because a singular entity existing with awareness without any physical entities making it aware in itself proves a soul.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  17. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

    +6,880
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Married
    Halbhh said...

    "I do think on the other hand that we often as people can have times in life (even years) where we can be like sleepers that could awaken more fully -- like a part of us asleep, that can awaken. And then when a times comes and we do awaken more fully, we notice the increased awareness."


    This can happen when we are born again...
     
  18. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

    +1,631
    Netherlands
    Christian
    Single
    If you doubt, you think. And if you think, you exist.

    But it says something only about your own existence, it does not solve the problem of the existence of the external world.

    Descartes then, after he proved his own existence, proves the existence of perfect God and from that he then continues to prove the truth of our external world.
     
  19. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

    +7,906
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Well, I've not gotten experiential impacts in a dream (other than the beside the topic thing of falling from a bed), so I don't know that any exist. Waking life seems to include a very real external reality as I was pointing out in my earlier post (post #3).
     
  20. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

    +6,138
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Private
    You may find a living version of the answer shortly as the WEF progresses with it's plan to combine our flesh with technology, creating a new reality.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
Loading...