What are a few reasons why Christ died upon the cross? (Have a few answers, but would like input).

Faithful777

Active Member
Nov 16, 2021
279
31
49
Recife
✟1,680.00
Country
Brazil
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Gods Kingdom did come, and His will was done on earth as Heaven, and the bread from Heaven was given better than daily bread( we are told to not seek what we eat or drink but first Gods righteousness, also Go did forgive us our trespasses by being risen from the dead( where our trespasses where keeping us in death) and gave us the ministry of reconciliation to forgive and care as He did ( if we believe in Him)


Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Siddhi Koli
Upvote 0

Faithful777

Active Member
Nov 16, 2021
279
31
49
Recife
✟1,680.00
Country
Brazil
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
This is what it means for God to be in us and we in Him, the Kingdom is within us and we are with Him in heavenly places too..


Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Siddhi Koli
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,723
6,139
Massachusetts
✟586,678.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I guess i just figure He made a pretty big sacrifice coming from the Father to us here on earth, for our own good.
Yes, Jesus left Heaven itself, in order to come to us and share with us and even suffer and die like He did for us. And part of the reason for all this is to be our example >

Philippians 2:5-11

For the sake of pleasing our Father, and with love for us, Jesus left all He had in Heaven, plus He went through suffering and death of this life . . . in order to love our Father plus share in love with us who join Jesus.

And so, we need to follow this example, by letting go of our little heavens and conveniences, in order to please God and love any and all people how He pleases, and how He guides us to love each person. And another scripture shows that Jesus on the cross is our example >

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

And God's grace in us works to have us loving like this. Jesus on the cross did all that, by means of grace. And now this grace is spreading from Jesus on the cross, to us . . . so we now can be sweetly pleasing to our Father, and obedient, and loving like Jesus on the cross was doing.

So, on the cross He was starting this, for sharing this with us :)
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Siddhi Koli
Upvote 0

Sunshinee777

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 9, 2020
1,803
2,003
Finland
✟168,856.00
Country
Finland
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
- Because it is natural for man to destroy what it does not understand

- the world man has built in our own image sees any counter-culture as an enemy and Jesus represented the ultimate counter-culture

- the institutions of man protect themselves from any foreign threat. It's an oxymoron but weakness always uses power to protect itself.

- the weak run the institutions and the world and feel constantly threatened (as they should)

- God's will is a threat to the self serving will of man because the ways of man are adversarial to the ways of God

- etc.

Totally agree with you.
Btw, God said that we can’t compete with each other who is more righteous because all righteousness comes from God, not from ourselves. So, ”no one could boast” Jesus loves us all equally.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: timothyu
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,513
7,861
...
✟1,195,418.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Jesus gave us the remedy . That we should put the will of the Father ahead of our own which was love all as self. The Kingdom coming would not necessarily be a remedy but rather a fitting world for those who repented, thus made worthy to live with the Father when His Kingdom/governance comes to rule over us. His Kingdom come, His will be done in earth as it is in Heaven.

Well, this sounds similar (Not exactly) to what I wrote (with the Bible) in the OP.

I said, I quote:

“Christ died upon the cross so that He might sanctify us with the washing of the water of the Word (Scripture) so that He might present to Himself a church that is holy and without blemish or spot (Ephesians 5:25-27). For Christ died for us to redeem us from all iniquity (Titus 2:14).” Quote by: ~ Bible Highlighter - Post #1.​

But the problem is that your are not saying this is the reason why He died upon the cross. You are not really saying that the cross is involved in any of this. You said He gave us a remedy. What remedy? That could mean anything. So you are merely marching to the beat of your own drum and not really participating in the thread topic, friend. Please be respectful to be people’s thread topics. How would you like it if someone wanted to talk about cats all the time and you wanted to talk about something else?
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,513
7,861
...
✟1,195,418.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
What are a few reasons why Christ died upon the cross?
(Continued):

#4. To destroy (conquer) him who had power over death. “Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;” (Hebrews 2:14). Note: This is not a total defeat of the devil, but merely a defeat of the devil’s power over death. Colossians 2:15 says, “And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.”

#5. Because God loves us and He does not want to see us perish, but to have eternal life instead. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16). Jesus says in John 15:13, “Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.” The apostle Paul says in Romans 5:8, “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” Note: Granted, God does not want us to remain as sinners because another reason why Christ died upon the cross was so that He might redeem us from all iniquity (Titus 2:14).

#6. Christ not only died on the cross to forgive sins (as mentioned in my point #1), but Jesus died upon the cross to personally pay the price for our sins (with Him being our substitute and or in taking our place for the punishment of our sins). For 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 says: “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:”​

#7. To be the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. For 1 John 2:2 says, “He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.” Note: I am not talking about Universalism (Whereby everyone will eventually be saved). I am talking about the Provisional Atonement in that Christ died for our sins on a provisional basis so that the Atonement can be applied personally to our lives if we accept His free gift of eternal life and we remain faithful with that gift. Think of like somebody paying the price or sacrifice in their lives so that they can write you a check to cancel out all of your debts. But it is up to you to receive that check, and deposit in your bank account and pay off those you were in debt with.​
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: Siddhi Koli
Upvote 0

bling

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Feb 27, 2008
16,185
1,809
✟826,432.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
What are a few reasons why Christ died upon the cross?

I will start.

#1. Christ died upon the cross to forgive us our sins (Hebrews 9:22).​

This verse is talking about cleansing, everything used in the sacrifice for sins was cleansed with blood, but the blood itself did not cause sins to be forgiven, Deity only can forgive sins. Under the Old Law animal blood and water was used to cleanse but that was only outwardly, while today we take Christ’s blood repressed by wine and drink it cleansing our hearts (making our hearts holy).

Again, God forgives sins and did not need Christ to go to the cross to forgive our sins (God is powerful and Loving enough to forgive us without Christ going to the cross and Christ and God forgave sins prior to the cross).


#2. Christ died upon the cross so that He might sanctify us with the washing of the water of the Word (Scripture) so that He might present to Himself a church that is holy and without blemish or spot (Ephesians 5:25-27). For Christ died for us to redeem us from all iniquity (Titus 2:14).
Eph. 5:25-27 is not just talking about Christ’s death on the cross, but Jesus’ whole life given for the Church. The washing of the “word” is not the actions of the cross, but the whole Gospel.

Titus 2:14 is talking about freeing a child (person) from the “kidnapper” of that person to truly be free, which the accepted ransom payment provides. If we are not set free, we cannot keep from sinning.


#3. Christ died upon the cross because it would nail to the cross those ordinances that were against us in the Old Law (Colossians 2:14-17).
OK, Those old rules were nailed to the cross.


Atonement is a huge topic; I could write a book on:

Jesus makes a very interesting description of his actions: “…to give his life as a ransom for many”. Paul, John, Peter and the writer of Hebrews use this same description, but all like Jesus say it is a literal ransom and not just “like” a ransom, so how is it a literal ransom and really a kidnapping scenario?

We have no problem seeing the ransom amount being sacrificially huge like we find in kidnappings, we have no problem seeing a child being set free to enter the kingdom and be with their Father, we have no problem see deity making the huge sacrifice and Christ being the huge payment.

The problem comes with: “Who is the kidnapper”: an undeserving criminal?

Can God be the kidnapper (an undeserving criminal)?

Satan is an undeserving criminal, but God can easily and safely take anything away from satan without paying him a ransom, so it would actually be wrong for God to pay satan anything. What “need” would God have for paying satan? (We can go through what supporters of the “Ransom theory of atonement” say.)

Some say, the kidnapper is some intangible like the none existing death angel, death, sin, or evil, but what can they do with this payment and/or what is the need?

Some say, there is no kidnapper (it is an analogy which breaks down at the kidnapper), but without a kidnapper it is not a ransom payment and no one or thing holding the child back from being free, so how is it a kidnapping?

There is also the general problem of having a ransom paid for all people including those who do not go to heaven and where and how is the sinner’s part in all this?



Thinking about this solution:

When we go up to the nonbeliever are we trying to get the nonbeliever to accept: a book, a theology, an idea, a church or “Jesus Christ and Him Crucified”?

If the nonbeliever accepts Jesus Christ and Him crucified than a child is set free to enter the kingdom, but if the nonbeliever rejects Jesus Christ and Him Crucified then a child is kept out of the Kingdom, so does that sound like what a kidnapper does?

Is the nonbelieving sinner an undeserving criminal?

In what way is “Jesus Christ and Him crucified” of great value to the nonbelieving?

How upset would God be with the kidnapper if the kidnapper rejected His payment offer?

Just as there are many children needing to be set free could there also be many kidnappers?


The kidnapping scenario is just one small part of the atonement explanation. Here is another piece of the puzzle:

I have not solved the problem of where to begin the explanation, but it might be best to go back to the Jewish understanding of atonement learned from actually individually personally going through the atonement process. Christians lack this experience and instead have developed preconceived ideas of atonement from poor theories.

First off: If you are forgiven 100% then there is nothing to pay and if Christ paid 100% there is nothing to forgive.

Penal Substitution is not fair/just where you have the innocent being punished (even if the innocent is willing to be punished) so the guilty can go free. The “payment” would not be just any innocent life, but the life of the person who sinned.

The “Satisfaction Theory of Atonement” put the problem of forgiveness in God’s lap needing Christ to be cruelly, tortured, humiliated and murdered (sounding very blood thirsty) in order to be personally satisfied to forgive.

God would have no problem forgiving, God is totally fair and just, but any rebellious disobedient child needs more then just forgiveness, since if at all possible, a wonderful parent would see to the fair/just Loving discipline of His children for all the benefits discipline provides. Atonement thus is a disciplining process we go through with God and Christ as we are crucified “with Christ”.

The Jews under the Law would have a good understanding of atonement by experiencing atonement for very minor sins which took little disciplining:


Lev.4 starts atonement off giving details of what the priest must do, which you should read and understand, but Lev.5 gets into more detail about the individual, so please read Lev. 5 with much thought. I find people with pet theories of atonement skip Lev. 5 all together and might go to Lev. 16, but the day of atonement has some lite symbolic references to Christ, Lev 5 is a closer representation. I will discuss Lev. 16 if you want to take the time, but it takes some explaining of what and why it was needed by itself. Please read Lev. 5 before going further.

Atonement is much more than the sacrifice itself; it is a process which we can see from the Old Testament examples of the atonement process.

We can start with Lev. 5: 3 or if they touch human uncleanness (anything that would make them unclean) even though they are unaware of it, but then they learn of it and realize their guilt; 4 or if anyone thoughtlessly takes an oath to do anything, whether good or evil (in any matter one might carelessly swear about) even though they are unaware of it, but then they learn of it and realize their guilt— 5 when anyone becomes aware that they are guilty in any of these matters, they must confess in what way they have sinned. 6 As a penalty for the sin they have committed, they must bring to the Lord a female lamb or goat from the flock as a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for them for their sin. … 10 The priest shall then offer the other as a burnt offering in the prescribed way and make atonement for them for the sin they have committed, and they will be forgiven.

Lev. 5 is talking about some really minor sins almost accidental sins and very much unintentional sins, there is no atonement process at this time for major sins, intentional direct disobedience toward God (these require banishment or death of the sinner).

The atonement process includes confessing, securing a good offering, personally bringing the offering to the priests at the temple altar, the priest has to offer it correctly and after the atonement process is correctly completed the sinner’s sins will be forgiven.

Note also the relationship between the sinner and the offering, the offering is “as a penalty for the sin” and not a replacement for the sinner. The idea of “penalty” is a “punishment” for the sinner, yet punishment of your child is better translated “disciplining”.

Reading all of Lev. 5: we have a lamb, two doves and a bag of flour all being an atoning sacrifice for the exact same sin, but vary with the wealth of the sinner, yet God does not consider the wealthy person of great value then the poor person, so what is happening? We can only conclude there is an attempt to equalize the hardship on the sinner (penalty/punishment/discipline). In fact, this might be the main factor in the atonement process at least Lev. 5. God is not only forgiving the sins, but seeing to the discipling of the sinner (like any Loving parent tries to do if possible). The problem is it can only be done for minor sins at this time.

Please notice there is an “and” just before “they will be forgiven”, suggesting a separate action, so the forgiveness is not part of the atonement process, but comes afterwards (this will be discussed more later).

Do you see the benefit for the Jewish people (nothing really to help God out here) going through this atonement process? That rich person had to water, feed, hang on to a lamb, he is not the lamb’s shepherd, so for hours waiting in line to get to the priest he fighting this lamb and the poor person may have skipped meals to get that bag of flour, so he has an equal hardship also. They are going to be more careful in the future and those around them will not want to go through the same thing. Yes, they can experience worship, forgiveness, and fellowship in the process.

We should be able to extrapolate up from extremely minor sins to rebellious disobedience directly against God, but that is a huge leap, so the hardship on the sinner will have to be horrendous, the sacrifice of much greater value (penalty for the sinner), and this will take a much greater Priest.

Please think up some questions to ask me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Siddhi Koli
Upvote 0

bling

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Feb 27, 2008
16,185
1,809
✟826,432.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I don't know???

I guess i just figure He made a pretty big sacrifice coming from the Father to us here on earth, for our own good. I guess He planted the seeds within humanity that will eventually grow into the kingdom??
I guess He knew we would kill Him - but He did it anyway for our own good.

I don't understand all the animal sacrifice stuff - Jesus is basically an animal sacrifice for sin, but not an animal in this case - and for all time etc etc I don't see how killing Jesus on the cross joins us to God???

Mystery to me.
You might read my post 29.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

bling

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Feb 27, 2008
16,185
1,809
✟826,432.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I understand you want to look at it from God's point of view but He was well aware of how things would turn out to His advantage because He simply looked at things from our point of view and sees how selfishly pathetic we are as a species. Unfortunately little of that concept is taught in church these days. It more about what's in it for us. Luke 16:15, James 4:4

The only reason it was necessary for Jesus to even come, let alone die is because we are useless at resolving our own problems. Time we took responsibility for His death, instead of simply glorifying the outcome.
You do good to see it as our problem but you might want to look at my post 29
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
25,248
6,184
North Carolina
✟278,691.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
What are a few reasons why Christ died upon the cross?

I will start.

#1. Christ died upon the cross to forgive us our sins (Hebrews 9:22).

#2. Christ died upon the cross so that He might sanctify us with the washing of the water of the Word (Scripture) so that He might present to Himself a church that is holy and without blemish or spot (Ephesians 5:25-27). For Christ died for us to redeem us from all iniquity (Titus 2:14).

#3. Christ died upon the cross because it would nail to the cross those ordinances that were against us in the Old Law (Colossians 2:14-17).​

There are other reasons I can think of, but I will let others have a chance to answer, as well.

Oh, and please keep in mind that my reasons are not listed in order of importance or anything. For I have another reason that could potentially be a #1.

Christ died on the cross because it was the Father's plan to show forth the glory of his own goodness through the glory of the goodness of his one and only Son,
God willing and the Son obeying the Father's will,
to send him to pay the penalty for our sin which God's holy and righteous justice required,
that God might redeem for himself a treasured inheritance with whom he desired fellowship,
and who would be the spotless and without-blemish bride of his Son.
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: Siddhi Koli
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,551
8,436
up there
✟307,583.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
The washing of the “word” is not the actions of the cross, but the whole Gospel.
Well they kind of had to alter the doctrine with a substitute when the Church rejected the Gospel of the Kingdom (and Kingdom/governance of God) so that it could join forces with the institutions of man, specifically the Roman Empire, and setting up a kingdom of it's own.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Siddhi Koli
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,551
8,436
up there
✟307,583.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
and who would be the bride of his Son.
They would be the guests at the wedding feast of Jesus and His bride the New Jerusalem. Rev 21: 9-10. Humans always want to make it about self, and churches know how to create doctrine to appeal to that character fault.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Siddhi Koli
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,513
7,861
...
✟1,195,418.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
This verse is talking about cleansing, everything used in the sacrifice for sins was cleansed with blood, but the blood itself did not cause sins to be forgiven, Deity only can forgive sins. Under the Old Law animal blood and water was used to cleanse but that was only outwardly, while today we take Christ’s blood repressed by wine and drink it cleansing our hearts (making our hearts holy).

Again, God forgives sins and did not need Christ to go to the cross to forgive our sins (God is powerful and Loving enough to forgive us without Christ going to the cross and Christ and God forgave sins prior to the cross).​
You deny Hebrews 9:22 in what it says. Yes, God forgives sin, but He cannot do so if there was no atonement for their sins (Which was done by Jesus Christ). It says without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins. Meaning, God could not forgive us our sins without Jesus dying on the cross for our sins.

I believe Hebrews 9:22 in what it says.

Note: Please keep in mind that I believe God was able to forgive sin ahead of time in the OT because God knows the future with pinpoint precision. God the Father knew that Christ would shed His blood for our sins as a matter of fact.

 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Siddhi Koli
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,513
7,861
...
✟1,195,418.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
So the old law is useful although many reject it?

The Law (Old Law) is good if one uses it lawfully (See: 1 Timothy 1:8).
But the Old Law (the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or package deal) was not given to the church. We do not sacrifice animals to a priest, or keep dietary laws, or stone people if they break the Law. Yes, certain individual laws have carried over, but we are not Old Covenant believers, but we are New Covenant believers.

Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Siddhi Koli
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
25,248
6,184
North Carolina
✟278,691.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
They would be the guests at the wedding feast of Jesus and His bride the New Jerusalem. Rev 21: 9-10. Humans always want to make it about self, and churches know how to create doctrine to appeal to that character fault.
Yes, the New Jerusalem is the bride of the Lamb; i.e., the Church (Ephesians 5:31-32).

Are you objecting to God's fellowship with the Church, whom he has credited with Christ's righteousness because of faith (Romans 5:18-19), as he credited his own righteousness (Romans 1:17, Romans 3:21-22) to Abraham because of faith (Romans 4:3; Genesis 15:6,) that he might fellowship with Abraham as a friend (John 15:15)?
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: Siddhi Koli
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,551
8,436
up there
✟307,583.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
but we are not Old Covenant believers, but we are New Covenant believers.
Yes I'm familiar with the concept. Isn't it interesting that although scripture is deemed infallible, the doctrines of man are not.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,551
8,436
up there
✟307,583.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Yes, the New Jerusalem is the bride of the Lamb; i.e., the Church.
The Church is NOT the New Jerusalem. That is the new Kingdom of God that replaces this world where only the worthy are invited as guests. Christianity got pretty messed up when it tried to eliminate the Gospel of the Kingdom and make it about self just as the Church had done in teaming up with God's adversary, the world of man. The institutional church is a government of man just like all the other institutions it was built upon. The Kingdom and especially the New Jerusalem are built upon the governance of God. The institutional church is a worldly idol built using the image of God as a cover.
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: Siddhi Koli
Upvote 0