prodromos

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That's precisely the point. There is no biblical evidence suggesting that the apostles placed any emphasis of honoring Christ's resurrection on the first day of the week.
Why do you require biblical evidence? What is wrong with historical evidence?
 
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klutedavid

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1. Sabbath as a Memorial
Genesis 2:1-3
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.
By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Exodus 20:8-11
“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

One of the reasons Jesus gives for regularly observing His Sabbath is in reference to the singular monumental event in this world's history—its creation. The Sabbath is a weekly reminder that Jesus created this Earth (John 1:3; Colossians 1:15-17). It is a day to rest from our works just as Jesus rested from His (Hebrews 4:7-10). It is to this very fact of being the Creator that Jesus appeals to over and over in the Scriptures as validation for His claim to being the one and only true God (c.f. 1 Chronicles 16:23-27; 2 Kings 19:15; 2 Chronicles 2:12; Nehemiah 9:6; Psalm 33:6; 96:5; 102:25-27; 115:15; 121:2; Isaiah 37:16; 40:20; 45:18; Jeremiah 10:12; 27:5; 32:17; 33:2, 3; 51:15; Jonah 1:9; Job 26:7; Acts 4:24; 14:15; 17:24; Revelation 14:7).

Psalm 111:2-4
Great are the works of the LORD; they are pondered by all who delight in them. Glorious and majestic are his deeds, and his righteousness endures forever. He has caused his wonders to be remembered; the LORD is gracious and compassionate.

If Jesus says to "Remember the Sabbath," and this remembering is directly connected to the "wonders" of His creation, why is it that people find this something they wish to forget? If one were to develop a hierarchy of the most important events in human history would not the act of creation rank toward the very top? Aside from the life, death and resurrection of the Creator, what other event do you suppose would be more worthy of remembering? Interestingly, even though Jesus nor His disciples ever hinted at any regularly repeating recognition for His resurrection, there are some who insist that we honor Sunday as a resurrection memorial. So while we have no divine command for a weekly remembering of the resurrection (making it a tradition of men), we likewise have no command overturning the weekly remembering of the creation. About this Jesus asks, "Why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?"

2. A Day for Our Benefit
Isaiah 58:13-14
“If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight and the LORD’s holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words, then you will find your joy in the LORD, and I will cause you to ride on the heights of the land and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob.” The mouth of the LORD has spoken.

Through His prophet Isaiah, Jesus portrays His holy day as something to delight in. If Jesus says to delight in His Sabbath I'm certain that there must be a blessing to be obtained by observing the day He blessed.

Mark 2:27
Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man (444 anthropos; human being), not man for the Sabbath.

Not only is the Sabbath affirmed as something to "delight" in, but Jesus Himself takes the opportunity to make it clear that when He made the Sabbath on the seventh day of creation it was made for the benefit of all humanity. The word for man in this text is "anthropos" which means people. Thus the Sabbath is for men and women, Jews and Gentiles, slaves and those who are free. All humanity can delight in the benefits of having a day off to remember their Creator and to rest from their own works.

3. Jesus Kept the Sabbath
Luke 4:16
[Jesus] went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. And he stood up to read.

It was Jesus's regular practice to assemble together with other believers on the Sabbath day. Leviticus 23:3 says that the Sabbath is "a day of sacred assembly." You can certainly worship God on all days of the week, but the Sabbath is the day Jesus set aside for worshipping with other believers in a corporate setting. It is a day set apart—a "holy day"—on which holy people are to rest from their own works and be blessed on the day that Jesus blessed.

1 Peter 2:21
To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

Jesus is our example in all things and following the things He did should not give anyone cause for concern. On the contrary, it is in doing those things which Jesus never did and never told us to do which we should seriously question the safety of such position. Keeping the Sabbath is in keeping with following Jesus's steps.

1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in Him must walk as Jesus did.

Again, if we are to "walk as Jesus did" it is a simple thing to ascertain that the example He left was to regularly assemble together with believers on the day He personally blessed and continues to make holy.

4. Disciples Kept the Sabbath After the Cross
Luke 23:56
Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.

Because Jesus never intended to put an end to the regular seven day cycle He set in motion for humanity's (anthropos) benefit and "delight," Jesus never informed them that it was no longer necessary to observe the Sabbath after His death. This is confirmed by the fact that His closest followers—those who went out of their way to see to His burial preparations—still "rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment." If Jesus did not intend for the Sabbath to be included in His new covenant then He needed to add this to His will before He died. After the death of the Testator nothing can be added or subtracted from that person's will (see Hebrews 9:16-17).

5. Paul Kept the Sabbath

Acts 17:2, 3
As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and proving that the Christ had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Christ,” he said.

After his conversion (recorded in Acts 9) Paul continues his "custom" of going to synagogue on the Sabbath. Not only was this his regular habit but the Bible also records that Paul preached to both Jews and Gentiles on the Sabbath for a year and a half!

Acts 18:4, 11
Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.


So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.

So, "Every Sabbath" for a "year and a half" Paul reasons in the synagogue with both Jews and Greeks (i.e. Gentiles). That's a biblical record of 76 Sabbaths in which Paul is preaching to Jews and Gentiles.

1 Corinthians 11:1
Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.

As we would expect from an apostle of Christ, Paul acknowledges that he follows "the example of Christ." Paul's actions testify to the fact that "his custom" of Sabbath observance was the same as the custom of Jesus. Paul then goes on to assert that you should not only follow Christ's example but you should also follow his own example. Are you following the examples left for you by both Jesus and Paul?

6. Gentiles Kept the Sabbath
Acts 13:42-45
So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.


On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul.

Some people suggest that Paul was evangelizing to Jews on the Sabbath and what better way to do that then to meet them on the day they all were gathering together? But in this text we see that after witnessing to the Jews in the synagogue that Gentiles begged Paul to preach these words "to them the next Sabbath." So if the Sabbath had ceased as a requirement and blessing of God, if it was not part of the New Covenant, if it was only for the Jew, then Paul need not wait an entire week to minister to the needs of these pleading Gentiles. Why wait seven days when tomorrow would work just fine? After all, as some people believe, the first day of the week is supposedly "the Lord's day"—a day to be honored in remembrance of Jesus's resurrection—so why not preach to them on this newly preferred day? Paul does not take this golden opportunity to inform these Gentiles that the Sabbath is passé and that it is no longer necessary to remember Jesus as the Creator. Instead, as someone who unashamedly "follow the example of Christ," he honors their Sabbath-keeping request.

7. The Sabbath 40 Years After the Cross
Matthew 24:20
Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.

Jesus is speaking in reference to the future destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. (40 years after His death). If we consider this admonition from the aspect of keeping the Sabbath holy by not working on it, then the prayer to not have to flee on the Sabbath is easily understandable. Additionally, this text also affirms the continuity of the Sabbath 40 years into the New Covenant.

8. Venerated Title Remains
Matthew 28:1
After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.


Mark 16:1
When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus’ body.


Luke 23:54
It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.


John 19:31
Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jews did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.

Each of the four Gospels were written years after the cross. One would expect that if the Sabbath was no longer relevant to New Covenant Christianity that the Gospel authors would've conveyed such in their writings. But Matthew, Mark, Luke and John all maintain uninterrupted use of the venerated title of Sabbath in their Gospels. None of them ever refer to it as the "Sabbath of the Jews," which of course makes perfect sense in keeping with point #2 above (i.e. the Sabbath was made for humanity's benefit). Luke points out certain things as being exclusively Jewish ("country of the Jews," "synagogue of the Jews") but in neither his Gospel nor his book of Acts does he do so to the Sabbath. Since Jesus said the Sabbath was made for people—regardless of race or gender—then the fact that these authors do not attempt to tie it strictly to the Jews is perfectly logical and consistent. This is especially meaningful when one considers their use of this title after the cross. Since they are writing years afterward there should be no reason why they should not know that the Sabbath has been discontinued. All four authors continue to address the seventh day of the week using it's venerated title and all of the remaining days of the week maintain their generic numeral designation.

9. The Sabbath in the New Earth
Isaiah 66:22-23
As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the LORD, “so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the LORD.

When Jesus first created this world we find that He set in motion His weekly memorial to His creative act by establishing His Sabbath (Genesis 2:1-3). In the "restoration of all things" the Lord will create a "new heavens and a new earth." Will the need to remember Jesus as Creator be any less meaningful or necessary once we are redeemed? Will the Sabbath be any less of a blessing or a "delight"? Since the Sabbath was "made for man" before man became a sinner it is apparent that its value was not based in relation to our sinful condition. Isaiah tells us that in the new earth all humanity will bow down before God "from one Sabbath to another." Jesus is going to hit the divine reset button for this Earth. It is going to be baptized by fire. After burning off all the sin and those who stubbornly held on to it, this Earth will be restored to how it was "in the beginning" and it will be our home as it was originally intended. Since the Sabbath comes to us from the seventh day of the beginning, we see that this special day has been a blessing to humanity from our creation to our ultimate salvation and will continue on throughout eternity.

10. The Sabbath in Languages of the World.
Did you know that there are flood traditions around the world? From Africa to Asia and Australia, from Europe to North and South Americas, the story of a world wide flood is a part of the tradition of the peoples in these areas. This is as one would expect for such a universally destructive event.

But did you also know that the word "Sabbath" can be found in various languages all around the world? This too is what one would expect if the Sabbath was instituted on the seventh day of creation. Just like Noah and the other seven survivors were witnesses to the flood, Adam and Eve would've been witnesses of the first Sabbath and Adam was around for 930 years to share his eye witness account to his progeny.

Here are a few languages that use the word Sabbath for the seventh day of the week:

Greek: Sabbaton (Sabbath)
Latin: Sabbatum (Sabbath)
Spanish: Sábado (Sabbath)
Portuguese: Sabbado (Sabbath)
Italian: Sabbato (Sabbath)
French: Samedi (Sabbath day)
High German: Samstag (Sabbath)
Prussian: Sabatico (Sabbath)
Russian: Subbota (Sabbath)
Congo Africa: Sabbado or Kiansbula (Sabbath)​

These are a few examples from our modern languages which still identify the seventh day as the Sabbath. There are a number of ancient languages which also do the same thing. The Babylonian language—dating back to 3800 BC (or shortly after the flood)—identifies the seventh day as "Sa-ba-tu" or Sabbath. Exactly what one would expect to find embedded in this Earth's recorded history.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
The law, the Sabbath, really only tells you that you are a transgressor. The law has no other benefit, it cannot save, cannot make you righteous, cannot justify you.

Romans 3:20
Because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

The sabbath observance is a work of the law. Therefore, the sabbath observance has no purpose, other than making you aware of your sin.
 
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Albion

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Warnings against following tradition of men.
When I wrote "traditional belief," I assumed that you and other readers would know that this was a reference to the historic, established faith of Christians, as opposed to what you call "traditions of men." Thanks.
 
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HIM

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When I wrote "traditional belief," I assumed that you and other readers would know that this was a reference to the historic, established faith of Christians, as opposed to what you call "traditions of men." Thanks.
And yet those who compiled said writings went around destroying what they considered heretical. From writings to people. So?
 
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Albion

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And yet those who compiled said writings went around destroying what they considered heretical. From writings to people. So?
So,...you're saying that the beliefs and writings of all sorts of groups of people that were not true believers were rejected by the early Christians because these were not in accord with the teachings of the Apostles and with Scripture.

Yes. And you are sorry about that...why??
 
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HIM

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Only God can give sight to the blind. I won't waste my time responding to you.
You just did. There is no historic evidence in the time of the Apostles to support the heretical teaching you follow. None. The church in apostacy compiled what they wanted and destroyed what they wanted. Blind? lol
 
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Albion

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You just did. There is no historic evidence in the time of the Apostles to support the heretical teaching you follow. None. The church in apostacy compiled what they wanted and destroyed what they wanted. Blind? lol

So.....you are saying that the Old Testament is God's word, but what almost every Christian denomination except yours, whether Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox, considers to be also part of the Bible--the New Testament--is not, in fact, divine revelation?
 
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HIM

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So,...you're saying that the beliefs and writings of all sorts of groups of people that were not true believers were rejected by the early Christians because these were not in accord with the teachings of the Apostles and with Scripture.

Yes. And you are sorry about that...why??
No. The church fell into apostacy after the Apostles. Except for what we have as the New Testament. The Catholic church compiled and destroyed at their leisure not God's.
 
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So.....you are saying that the Old Testament is God's word, but what almost every Christian denomination except yours, whether Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox, considers to be also part of the Bible--the New Testament--is not, in fact, divine revelation?
No this is what was said, There is no historic evidence in the time of the Apostles to support the heretical teaching you follow. None. The church in apostacy compiled what they wanted and destroyed what they wanted.

The church fell into apostacy after the Apostles. Except for what we have as the New Testament. The Catholic church compiled and destroyed at their leisure not God's.
 
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Albion

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No. The church fell into apostacy after the Apostles. Except for what we have as the New Testament.
Except for the New Testament?? In your previous post you said this:
The church in apostacy compiled what they wanted and destroyed what they wanted.
The Catholic church compiled and destroyed at their leisure not God's.

If so, it would mean that the New Testament was not divine revelation, but just what an "apostate" church preferred to consider as such in its mistaken judgment.

And it absolutely has to mean that you do not accept the New Testament, as we have it in every Bible translation. Earlier, the claim was made that SDA's DO accept the New Testament as true.
 
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HIM

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Except for the New Testament?? In your previous post you said this:


If so, it would mean that the New Testament was not divine revelation, but just what an "apostate" church preferred to consider as such in its mistaken judgment.
The Church was also in a state of constant apostacy since the beginning of time, yet through divine intervention we have the Old Testament.
 
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Albion

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No this what was said, There is no historic evidence in the time of the Apostles to support the heretical teaching you follow. None. The church in apostacy compiled what they wanted and destroyed what they wanted.
What we and almost all other Christians "follow" in regard to Sunday worship is what is found in the New Testament.

Although you've talked around the point quite a bit, all that can be gotten from your posts on this subject is that you consider the New Testament to be uninspired, not divine revelation, but merely the preferred thinking of a non-Christian ("apostate") religious body that you identify as the Roman Catholic Church.
 
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What we and almost all other Christians "follow" in regard to Sunday worship is what is found in the New Testament.

.
Nonsense
 
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What we and almost all other Christians "follow" in regard to Sunday worship is what is found in the New Testament.

Although you've talked around the point quite a bit, all that can be gotten from your posts on this subject is that you consider the New Testament to be uninspired, not divine revelation, but merely the preferred thinking of a non-Christian ("apostate") religious body that you identify as the Roman Catholic Church.
.
Why do you require biblical evidence? What is wrong with historical evidence?
This was the post that originated the dialog. The responses were in relation to supposed historic evidence not the New Testament.
 
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Albion

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If it were nonsense, people of your persuasion would not be terrified of the question being put them about the inspiration of the New Testament books and why such people will not or cannot explain their dismissal of its contents.

Yes, I know that story about an "apostate" church making the New Testament meaningless to true Christians, but if you use that one, you might as well say, without equivocation, that you are not interested in the New Testament which, as we all know, is the basis for Sunday worship.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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So.....you are saying that the Old Testament is God's word, but what almost every Christian denomination except yours, whether Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox, considers to be also part of the Bible--the New Testament--is not, in fact, divine revelation?
The New Testament is divine and no one is stating otherwise, but no where does it delete the 4th commandment or state that the first day is the new primary day of worship. Jesus in the New Testament has warnings about obeying traditions over commandment of God. Matthew 15:3-9 There is no commandment for Sunday keeping, but clearly there is for Sabbath keeping. Exodus 20:8-11.

Jesus came to do the will of His Father and kept the commandments of God as our example John 15:10 including keeping the Sabbath Luke 4:16-22
 
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If it were nonsense, people of your persuasion would not be terrified of the question being put them about the inspiration of the New Testament books and why such people will not or cannot explain their dismissal of its contents.

Yes, I know that story about an "apostate" church making the New Testament meaningless to true Christians, but if you use that one, you might as well say, without equivocation, that you are not interested in the New Testament which, as we all know, is the basis for Sunday worship.
It was never said that the NT was uninspired. God is faithful even when we are not.

Sunday worship as a replacement of the Sabbath Day of Rest is not an inspired teaching from God or the Bible.
Take care.
 
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It was never said that the NT was uninspired.

You didn't use that word, but we have post after post on record here in which you disavow the contents, so you can't have it both ways.

And, in case there is any question, my interest is not in showing you up or winning some debate here, but I would really like to know why SDAs, at least those on these forums, do not accept the New Testament but say that they do.
 
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