Genesis 2:7 man became a living , when does this occur.

[Adventist Dissident]

And you know when that occurs do you? God came to you and personally told you when he gives each person their soul and spirit?

The writer said God saw him, knew him, before his body was formed. And secondly that his days had already been written in Gods book. God didn't see him as a blob or a leaf or as a table, but as a man.

He was a person. He was alive -before his body was even formed and it is fully formed with arms, legs, fingers, toes and organs by 12 weeks gestation.

Genesis 2:7. When the breath of God enters the body AFTER It is formed.

The passages that you are referring are talking about either God's foreknowledge or it is talking about the pre=existing nature of the soul. In other words the soul exists outside the body then at somepoints enters the body.

The passage that talk about him planning his days in the book apply only to the righteoues. For Psalm 58:3 "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies."

Great Pro-LIfe text don't you think

 

[coffee4u]

Genesis 2:7. When the breath of God enters the body AFTER It is formed.

The passages that you are referring are talking about either God's foreknowledge or it is talking about the pre=existing nature of the soul. In other words the soul exists outside the body then at somepoints enters the body.

The passage that talk about him planning his days in the book apply only to the righteoues. For Psalm 58:3 "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies."

Great Pro-LIfe text don't you think

Your ignoring of the text won't make it go away.
Psalm 139:16
Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.

Since you are claiming to to know when the soul and spirit enters the body, when is it, which day?

That passage has nothing to do with pro life since once again you are claiming to know something that only God can know. Or are you also claiming you can spot the wicked at birth as well? So tell me who was born today who is wicked?

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Your ignoring of the text won't make it go away.
Psalm 139:16
Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.

Since you are claiming to to know when the soul and spirit enters the body, when is it, which day?

That passage has nothing to do with pro life since once again you are claiming to know something that only God can know. Or are you also claiming you can spot the wicked at birth as well? So tell me who was born today who is wicked?

Scripture says when the breath enters the body is the starting point. That is not at conception,since there is no body. I am not ignoring context, you are ignoring the term "formed" it is the same as in Genesis 2:7 and it means material matter that is unconscience, unaware, not knowing and not feeling.

 

[apollosdtr]

So then... isn't the breath of God the electricity and heat that caused the minerals to combine the way they did?

What does Genesis 1 have to do with anything

Because there are two creation accounts.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God made the heaven and the earth. 2 But the earth was unsightly and unfurnished, and darkness was over the deep, and the Spirit of God moved over the water.LXX

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man according to our image and likeness, and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the flying creatures of heaven, and over the cattle and all the earth, and over all the reptiles that creep on the earth.LXX

Are image and likeness just synonyms, here?
How exactly is man in the likeness of God, if God is spirit?

Genesis 2:7 And God formed the man of dust of the earth, and breathed upon his face the breath of life, and the man became a living soul.LXX πνοήν ζωής

in Hebrew, Strong's says breath is
nshamah = a puff, i.e. wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect. or (concretely) an animal:--blast, (that) breath(-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit.

(Is the breath of life the same thing given by Jesus to His Galilean Disciples?
John 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace [be] unto you: as [my] Father hath sent Me, even so send I you. 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on [them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained.)

But the genesis doesn't stop there, does it?

Genesis 5:1 This is the genealogy of men in the day in which God made Adam; in the image of God He made him: 2 male and female He made them, and blessed them; and He called his name Adam, in the day in which He made them. 3 And Adam lived two hundred and thirty years, and begot a son after his own form, and after his own image, and he called his name Seth.LXX

What does it mean to be 'after the form and image' of Adam?
Does that still apply, today?
And what does that mean regarding the humanoids born before Adam?

 

[coffee4u]

Scripture says when the breath enters the body is the starting point. That is not at conception,since there is no body. I am not ignoring context, you are ignoring the term "formed" it is the same as in Genesis 2:7 and it means material matter that is unconscience, unaware, not knowing and not feeling.

Except the unborn is not "unconscience, unaware, not knowing and not feeling."

Sight has started by 16 weeks with reaction to light.
Hearing has started by 18 weeks gestation and is complete by 24.
By week 8 the fetus has developed touch receptors in his face — mostly on his lips and nose. The soles of his feet by week 12 and the abdomen by week 17.

The unborn is not a lump of unfeeling tissue no matter how much you would wish it.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Except the unborn is not "unconscience, unaware, not knowing and not feeling."

Sight has started by 16 weeks with reaction to light.
Hearing has started by 18 weeks gestation and is complete by 24.
By week 8 the fetus has developed touch receptors in his face — mostly on his lips and nose. The soles of his feet by week 12 and the abdomen by week 17.

The unborn is not a lump of unfeeling tissue no matter how much you would wish it.

you clearly have not grasped anything I have written. 16 ,18, 24, 12,17 weeks, what about before that. that is what we are talking about. At some point it becomes a person in the womb. it is just not at conception as Pro-Life Christians say.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Because there are two creation accounts.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God made the heaven and the earth. 2 But the earth was unsightly and unfurnished, and darkness was over the deep, and the Spirit of God moved over the water.LXX

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man according to our image and likeness, and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the flying creatures of heaven, and over the cattle and all the earth, and over all the reptiles that creep on the earth.LXX

Are image and likeness just synonyms, here?
How exactly is man in the likeness of God, if God is spirit?

Genesis 2:7 And God formed the man of dust of the earth, and breathed upon his face the breath of life, and the man became a living soul.LXX πνοήν ζωής

in Hebrew, Strong's says breath is
nshamah = a puff, i.e. wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect. or (concretely) an animal:--blast, (that) breath(-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit.

(Is the breath of life the same thing given by Jesus to His Galilean Disciples?
John 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace [be] unto you: as [my] Father hath sent Me, even so send I you. 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on [them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained.)

But the genesis doesn't stop there, does it?

Genesis 5:1 This is the genealogy of men in the day in which God made Adam; in the image of God He made him: 2 male and female He made them, and blessed them; and He called his name Adam, in the day in which He made them. 3 And Adam lived two hundred and thirty years, and begot a son after his own form, and after his own image, and he called his name Seth.LXX

What does it mean to be 'after the form and image' of Adam?
Does that still apply, today?
And what does that mean regarding the humanoids born before Adam?

the 2 accounts can easily be explained. one is Gods account/ perspective the other is Adam's Account/ Perspective.

The image of God is about representation, the word image is also used in the 10 commandments when God forbids people to make and Image of God after any thing on earth. God made man to be his representative and Adams offspring were his representative.

 

[coffee4u]

At some point it becomes a person in the womb.

Oh I knew your point, I was trying to get you to see mine, which you finally did.
"At some point it becomes a person in the womb."

That is my point, mere human beings cannot know when the soul and spirit enters. Are you really claiming you know when the fetus gains a soul and spirit? Do you not see how preposterous not to mention arrogant that is? That is something only God knows.

The unborn still has the blood of life. Life is not only in the breath, but also in the blood and in the soul.
Leviticus 17:11
11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.
This is why animal blood was used until Jesus came to be the ultimate sacrifice. Only animals with life blood were ever used for sacrifice.

The heart begins to pump fluid through blood vessels by day 20, and the first red blood cells appear the next day.

But for all these advancements in knowing when things like hearing and blood appear none of these can tell us when the soul and spirit enters because it isn't ours to know.

it is just not at conception as Pro-Life Christians say.

And again I will ask you, how do you know when the soul or spirit enters?
You sat down at the feet of God and he told you this did he? You don't know.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Oh I knew your point, I was trying to get you to see mine, which you finally did.
"At some point it becomes a person in the womb."

That is my point, mere human beings cannot know when the soul and spirit enters. Are you really claiming you know when the fetus gains a soul and spirit? Do you not see how preposterous not to mention arrogant that is? That is something only God knows.

The unborn still has the blood of life. Life is not only in the breath, but also in the blood and in the soul.
Leviticus 17:11
11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.
This is why animal blood was used until Jesus came to be the ultimate sacrifice. Only animals with life blood were ever used for sacrifice.

The heart begins to pump fluid through blood vessels by day 20, and the first red blood cells appear the next day.

But for all these advancements in knowing when things like hearing and blood appear none of these can tell us when the soul and spirit enters because it isn't ours to know.


And again I will ask you, how do you know when the soul or spirit enters?
You sat down at the feet of God and he told you this did he? You don't know.

1 Scriptrue says when the soul enters the body after formation. that is not conception. Yep the Lord walked me through this. look at all the scriptures on the subject. blood is not conception. Body, Soul, Spirit. need for a person to exist. NO No Body , No Soul, NO Sprit, "the body without the spirit is dead" James 2:26 no body, no spirit no life. you do not have a body or spirit at conception

 

[coffee4u]

1 Scriptrue says when the soul enters the body after formation. that is not conception. Yep the Lord walked me through this. look at all the scriptures on the subject. blood is not conception. Body, Soul, Spirit. need for a person to exist. NO No Body , No Soul, NO Sprit, "the body without the spirit is dead" James 2:26 no body, no spirit no life. you do not have a body or spirit at conception

Chapter and verse please.

If God saw his unformed body God already saw him as a person, long before day 21.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Chapter and verse please.

If God saw his unformed body God already saw him as a person, long before day 21.

Gen 2:7 there is your chapter and verse

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Chapter and verse please.

If God saw his unformed body God already saw him as a person, long before day 21.

not exactly, that is drawing a conclusion based on the out come desired. It would be like having the raw mineral to make a computer, mining them and saying this will make a computer. it is not a computer it is the material to make a computer. It shows God's intent not the nature of the thing being created. in this case a person. you are not making any allowances for the process.

 

[coffee4u]

Gen 2:7 there is your chapter and verse

That isn't about the unborn.
Adam and Eve were like no one else. They were specially created by God as adults, everyone since then has been knit together in their mothers womb and been born.

The closest verses we have on the unborn is the one I quoted.
Psalm 139:16
Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.

You have no way of knowing when the soul or spirit enters the unborn.

Job38
The LORD Challenges Job

1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said: 2“Who is this who obscures My counsel by words without knowledge? 3Now brace yourself like a man;

I will question you, and you shall inform Me. 4Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding.

God doesn't just say this to Job but to all of us. Stop pretending you know of things that only God knows.

5Who fixed its measurements? Surely you know!

Or who stretched a measuring line across it? 6On what were its foundations set,

or who laid its cornerstone,d 7while the morning stars sang together

and all the sons of God shouted for joy? 8Who enclosed the sea behind doors

when it burst forth from the womb, 9when I made the clouds its garment

and thick darkness its blanket, 10when I fixed its boundaries

and set in place its bars and doors, 11and I declared: ‘You may come this far, but no farther;

here your proud waves must stop’? 12In your days, have you commanded the morning

or assigned the dawn its place, 13that it might spread to the ends of the earth

and shake the wicked out of it? 14The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;

its hills stand out like the folds of a garment. 15Light is withheld from the wicked,

and their upraised arm is broken. 16Have you journeyed to the vents of the sea

or walked in the trenches of the deep? 17Have the gates of death been revealed to you?

Have you seen the gates of the shadow of death? 18Have you surveyed the extent of the earth?

Tell Me, if you know all this. 19Where is the way to the home of light?

Do you know where darkness resides, 20so you can lead it back to its border?

Do you know the paths to its home? 21Surely you know, for you were already born!

And the number of your days is great! 22Have you entered the storehouses of snow

or observed the storehouses of hail, 23which I hold in reserve for times of trouble,

for the day of war and battle? 24In which direction is the lightning dispersed,

or the east wind scattered over the earth? 25Who cuts a channel for the flood

or clears a path for the thunderbolt, 26to bring rain on a barren land,

on a desert where no man lives, 27to satisfy the parched wasteland

and make it sprout with tender grass? 28Does the rain have a father?

Who has begotten the drops of dew? 29From whose womb does the ice emerge?

Who gives birth to the frost from heaven, 30when the waters become hard as stone

and the surface of the deep is frozen? 31Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades

or loosen the belt of Orion? 32Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasonse

or lead out the Bearf and her cubs? 33Do you know the laws of the heavens?

Can you set their dominion over the earth? 34Can you command the clouds

so that a flood of water covers you? 35Can you send the lightning bolts on their way?

Do they report to you, ‘Here we are’? 36Who has put wisdom in the heartg

or given understanding to the mind? 37Who has the wisdom to count the clouds?

Or who can tilt the water jars of the heavens 38when the dust hardens into a mass

and the clods of earth stick together? 39Can you hunt the prey for a lioness

or satisfy the hunger of young lions 40when they crouch in their dens

and lie in wait in the thicket?

41Who provides food for the raven when its young cry out to God
as they wander about for lack of food?

You know nothing. None of us do.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

we are circling back and repeating what has all ready been written. I will not continue with you. Sorry. This ground has already been covered. feel free to read the prior post, but I will not do this with you. the subject does not start when you show up. it is common practice for one to read the prior post and respond to them. if you have something NEW to add to the conversation then I will engage you when you have something new. otherwise we are done.

 

[apollosdtr]

the 2 accounts can easily be explained. one is Gods account/ perspective the other is Adam's Account/ Perspective.

The image of God is about representation, the word image is also used in the 10 commandments when God forbids people to make and Image of God after any thing on earth. God made man to be his representative and Adams offspring were his representative.

The two accounts are usually explained as coming from different documents in the hands of the compiler. Idolotry is spiritual adultery that takes form... this is why "no image" remains in most copies of the 10 Commandments. And the mark of the beast will be taken by those who don't recognize that commandment.

I have to ask: why don't you like the idea that mankind became eternal like the God who created them? If mankind is eternal, does that change your reason for this thread?

 

[coffee4u]

we are circling back and repeating what has all ready been written. I will not continue with you. Sorry. This ground has already been covered. feel free to read the prior post, but I will not do this with you. the subject does not start when you show up. it is common practice for one to read the prior post and respond to them. if you have something NEW to add to the conversation then I will engage you when you have something new. otherwise we are done.

It's been covered again and again because it is the main point and it is a point you can't refute.

No man knows when the soul and spirit enters.

This is why we have no right to end a life.

Life is not defined by the ability to hear, there are deaf people.
Life is not defined by the ability to see, there are blind people
Life is not defined by the ability to think, since the blood is there from day 21 of official gestation, day 35) which is long before conscious thought begins.
Leviticus 17:11
For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.

There is a 2 weeks discrepancy here between the official days considered pregnant and how long she actually has been pregnant. Due date is counted as 40 weeks, or 280 days, from the first day of your last menstrual period (LMP). But actual fertilization occurs close to day 14 of a 30 day cycle. With implantation happening 6-12 days after that. (day 20-26 of the cycle)
This is why some are protesting the Texas abortion law on 6 weeks. They are protesting the fact that a woman has only known she was pregnant maximum of 4 weeks when that law kicks in.

Most men are not aware of the details of the female cycle. (even some women are not that aware of how their own cycle works.) The majority of women unless they are tracking their cycle carefully or are actively trying to get pregnant won't notice the lack of a period for a few days passed when it was due. Many woman are not that precisely regular, things like stress and diet can delay things. So by the time they take a pregnancy test they are often 2 weeks pregnant.

Genesis 9:5
And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

your appeal to authority, betrey your intentions and thus point to the need to end the conversation. I am sorry you don't wish to discuss, you wish to berate. I am intrested intellegent conversation which you have demonstrated you cannot handle. I am sorry to infom you I will not longer discuss with you. I have answered your questions and objection. Genesis 2:7 says very clearly that life begins when the breath of God enters the person. This ilustration has been used over and over again in scripture so it is solid. That is not a conception. you are without foundation for saying that life begins at conception.

 

[coffee4u]

your appeal to authority, betrey your intentions and thus point to the need to end the conversation. I am sorry you don't wish to discuss, you wish to berate. I am intrested intellegent conversation which you have demonstrated you cannot handle. I am sorry to infom you I will not longer discuss with you. I have answered your questions and objection. Genesis 2:7 says very clearly that life begins when the breath of God enters the person. This ilustration has been used over and over again in scripture so it is solid. That is not a conception. you are without foundation for saying that life begins at conception.

And you continue to avoid the facts. You do not know when the soul and spirit come into a person and yet not once have you acknowledged that.

Genesis 2:7 is clearly talking about Adam and nobody else. Why would you keep appealing back to Adam? Did God come and make you from clay and breath down your nostrils? No, you were formed in your mother's womb the same way the rest of us were.

Adam alone was made from the dirt and breathed into. Eve was made from his rib and no mention is made of God breathing into her, because it wasn't needed since she was taken from Adam. The 'breathing into' occurred once and once only. We have all come from Adam who passed along the breath from himself to all humanity. Likewise he also passed sin onto all of humanity.
Romans5:12
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

 

[Adventist Dissident]

We have reached the end of constructive discussion. Nothing more will be achieved, Good-day Sir.

 

[coffee4u]

We have reached the end of constructive discussion. Nothing more will be achieved, Good-day Sir.

Bit difficult since I'm a woman.

God will demand a reckoning for each one of those tiny lives whose life blood was spilt.
Genesis 9:5
And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.