WHAT IS THE REAL GOSPEL?

[bbbbbbb]

I would say there is no other "gospel". Because there are many false gospels.

I suspect one common one is the idea that Jesus died for us, and therefore we are guaranteed to go to Heaven, but there is nothing about being deeply corrected in our character so we become like Jesus and share intimately with our Heavenly Father in His love now. But ones only or mainly talk about how we will go to Heaven, no matter what sins we do in this life. And they say God unconditionally loves us, but there is no mention of how He truly corrects our character because He so loves us; but Hebrews 12:4-14 means that His grace favors us by correcting us to become holy and peaceful in sharing with Jesus. But ones talk mainly or only about how God will keep loving us, no matter how we mess up, but they do not say how God's grace in us has us succeeding in doing all His word of the New Testament means to Him, because of how we have been growing in this grace > God's redeeming almighty creative energizing, I suppose this could mean.

Jesus preached "the gospel of the kingdom" and Paul preached "the gospel of grace" and John the Baptist preached "the gospel of baptism for the repentance of sins". Do you see any differences between these three or are they identical?

 

[com7fy8]

Q7. What is the purpose of God's law (10 commandments) in the new covenant?

Galatians 3:24 >

"Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith." (Galatians 3:24)

I would say there is God's grace which uses the Law to bring someone to Christ. This might be included in how our Father draws a soul to Jesus >

"'No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, "And they shall all be taught by God." Therefore, everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.'" (John 8:44-45)

Our Heavenly Father can use the Law to help a person to see his or her need for Jesus. The Law can be used to expose our sin trouble (Romans 7:7), so we realize we need Jesus. And, in my opinion, there are things the Law says, which can help us see how we need to become in love. So, part of the exposing of sin includes giving us some appreciation of how we need to become and live in love.

For example, look at Leviticus 19:18 >

"'You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.'" (Leviticus 19:18)

This is part of the Law that Jesus was asked about, when He was asked which is the greatest commandment of the Law. This is where the "love your neighbor as yourself" commandment is. And I see how this can feed us to be forgiving, not seeking revenge and not bearing grudges. This forgiving is included in loving others as ourselves. And since Jesus died on the cross in order to get us forgiven, I see how this command in the Law could be meant to help to bring our attention and us to Jesus on the cross . . . Like our Apostle Paul means that the Law is intended to do . . . as our "tutor".

 

[com7fy8]

Jesus preached "the gospel of the kingdom" and Paul preached "the gospel of grace" and John the Baptist preached "the gospel of baptism for the repentance of sins". Do you see any differences between these three or are they identical?

I think this might need its own thread; so I have just started this >

Does God have three distinct gospels, or "three in one"? . . . or? | Christian Forums

 

[Ligurian]

This also agreeing with the scripture chapter contexts of Matthew 24:5 that says For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:5

Textus Receptus:
πολλοὶ γὰρ ἐλεύσονται ἐπὶ τῷ ὀνόματί μου λέγοντες Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ Χριστός, καὶ πολλοὺς πλανήσουσιν

Transliterated:
polloi gar eleusontai epi tw onomati mou legonteV egw eimi o cristoV kai pollouV planhsousin

Literal:
many for come in the name me saying I am the anointed and much deceive

CristoV, Christos = from chrio; anointed, i.e. the Messiah, an epithet of Jesus:--Christ.
chrio = to smear or rub with oil, i.e. (by implication) to consecrate to an office or religious service:--anoint.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I think this might need its own thread; so I have just started this >

Does God have three distinct gospels, or "three in one"? . . . or? | Christian Forums

Thank you! I appreciate that.

 

[The Liturgist]

How can the weekly Sabbath point to rest in Jesus when it points backwards to the finished work of creation before mankind sinned?

For a number of reasons, which are fairly comprehensive, as about as comprehensive as we can get in terms of cataphatic theology:

• God is an eternal being, and Jesus Christ is likewise eternal, having been begotten of the Father in eternity, “before all ages” as the Nicene Creed (which is the basis of the CF.com) expresses it so eloquently. This is also expressed in the Gospel According to John (in the Incarnation Pericope, John 1:1-18).
• Through Christ, all things were made (John 1:2), which again, is a central article of faith in the Nicene Creed. Since spacetime is a thing, this means that God created spacetime and has dominion over it. If spacetime were not a creature, because of the centrality of spacetime to the physical universe, it would have the effect of undermining the Christian doctrine of creation ex nihlo, and one could even make an argument that God the Holy Trinity was a demiurge, with spacetime being the true deity; this metaphysical point is one of my chief criticisms of Mormonism (which is conceptually similiar, albeit worse, insofar as Mormonism postulates that matter existed from eternity and that God merely rearranged matter, as opposed to the account in the Gospel of John wherein the Father by His only begotten Son and Word, creates all things.
• Because of the intimate involvement of the only begotten Son and Word of God, Jesus Christ, in the process of creation, we can state with Evangelical and Scriptural confidence that it would be entirely erroneous to associate the ministry of God the Son only with His intervention to free us from the wages of sin, which are death, through His glorious resurrection, and His future (from our perspective) juridicial ministry as Christ Pantocrator, because while they are critically important soteriological and eschatological events, Scripture also attests to Christ our Savior, as the Logos or Word of God, being the means by which all things were made (John 1:1-18 , with particular emphasis on John 1:1-2)

From this, we can understand the saving work of Christ on the cross as a recreation of Humanity in His image, in which we were glorified, as hinted at before His entry into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday at the Transfiguration, when Moses and Elijah were momentarily present with our Lord amidst the uncreated light of Tabor. And likewise, we can understand the future dread judgement seat of Christ as a further recreation of humanity, this time, not just the human nature itself, but rather the entire resurrected humanity on an individual level, with those who embrace our Lord being united with Him for all eternity and those who continue in wickedness being consigned to the Lake of Fire for all eternity*.

*As CS Lewis liked to point out, this is the preference of those who are damned; I think his remark that the Gates of Hell are locked on the inside is an extremely insightful comment on the profoundly self-destructive aspects of impassioned human behavior.

 

[The Liturgist]

In God's Word the bible speaks of the everlasting Gospel in Revelation 14:6 as part of the three angels messages as the last message of warning given to the world before the second coming and warns us about receiving "another gospel" preaching another Jesus or a false gospel that is not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ (false teachings) in 2 Corinthians 11:4; Galatians 1:6-7; Acts of the Apostles 20:29.

Indeed, there is only one Gospel contained in the four canonical gospels, the Acts of the Apostles, the Apocalypse of St. John, and in the Epistles of the Holy Apostles Paul, Peter, John, James, Jude and the Epistle to the Hebrews, which may or may not be of Pauline authorship (it seems more likely than not that someone else penned it, but it could still reflect Pauline thought, so this is an open question). This Gospel is prophesized and foreshadowed in the books of the Old Testament, including the 150 canonical and 5 deuterocanonical Psalms, and the complete set of protocanonical and deuterocanonical scriptures (the Book of Wisdom, also known as the Wisdom of Solomon, and Tobit, are particularly meaningful anticipations of the Gospel, as is the longer version of Esther).

The true Gospel is not legalistic; rather, it represents the Good News that through faith in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, we can hope to be with him following our repose, and then at the time of the general resurrection, we might be raised incorruptible and received into the World to Come. Our faith in Christ also enables us to perform good works, which can be summarized as the following his two commandments, that we love Him with all our heart and mind and soul, and love our neighbor as ourselves, but the Gospel is not a Pelagian exercise in works righteousness (Pelagianism and legalism are false Gospels).

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ How can the weekly Sabbath point to rest in Jesus when it points backwards to the finished work of creation before mankind sinned?

Your response here..

How can Melchizedek be a type of Jesus considering that we know virtually nothing about him and he popped up long before the Law was given on Mount Sinai to Moses and the nation of Israel?

I do not think you understood what we were quoting from. What do you need a Priest for when there was no sin and no plan of salvation given because mankind had not fallen into sin? You do know that Priests are written into God's plan of salvation right and given after the fall of mankind not before right?

Take care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

As we have in 1 Corinthians 15 > Jesus died for our sins, was buried, resurrected on the third day, then was witnessed risen by His disciples and our Apostle Paul.

Well this is a part of the gospel and the central theme. Is this all there is to the gospel? Did you read the OP and in particular What is the true gospel? (linked). Thoughts?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

One think I think of is Romans 8:29 >

"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." (Romans 8:29)

Our Father is pleased with how His own Son Jesus is; so He destined us to be changed to be like Jesus. And so, He has given us His grace, in order to change us to become delighting to Him like Jesus is, and so Jesus will have many brothers and sisters who are like Him as family.

So, I now consider . . . grace is not primarily for us, to favor us somehow, but grace favors God's Son and how our Father desires to have many children pleasing to Him like Jesus, in His love. Therefore, our Father has given us grace so we can minister this to one another, to bring us all to conform to the image of Jesus, as Ephesians 4:15 means, I would say.

Thoughts on the scriptures presented here in Why has God given us His grace for?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

"All unrighteousness is sin," (in 1 John 5:17) From this I see how Jesus is righteous, and thus all which is not like the character of Jesus is sin. I would say this is the main part of the definition.

So what is unrighteousness? Does the bible define anything else as sin? (see scriptures here)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The Everlasting Gospel = Fear God,* and give glory to Him; ** for the hour of His judgment is come: and worship Him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Revelation 14:1-7 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having The Everlasting Gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come: and worship Him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

{"saw another angel" ... as if the last one was seen only shortly before}



Matthew 24:14-24 And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
... When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand); then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains. Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house, neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath Day:
... For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there, believe not.
24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
eklektos = chosen, elect.
Matthew 22:2-14 For many are called, but few chosen.
Revelation 17:12-14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings, and they that are with Him, called and chosen and faithful.
pistos = faithful, sure, true.
Revelation 2:8-10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
__________________
* Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Psalms 2:1-9 Wherefore did the heathen rage, and the nations imagine vain things? The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers gathered themselves together, against the Lord, and against His Christ; saying, Let us break through Their bonds, and cast away Their yoke from us.LXX

** Revelation 11:12-13 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of Heaven.

Good scriptures Ligurian. Thanks for sharing them. What do you think is the meaning of Revelation 14:7-12?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Well, I would say grace has to do with how God works in favor of Jesus and people and things. Most of all, our Heavenly Father favors Jesus and how Jesus is and loves. So, the main ministration of grace has to with changing us into the image of Jesus, so we are pleasing to our Father and therefore pleasing to Him while serving and sharing as His family.

The favor, then, is not first about each person who can say the right words in prayer and get God to make things go his or her way. But God is all-loving; His grace is all-loving. He primarily loves Jesus, yes, but grace is changing us so we are like Jesus so we likewise can enjoy sharing with God in His love > as Jesus has claimed in prayer >

"that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me" > in John 17:23.

So, grace is mainly about Jesus; but Jesus is so sharing that He desires that we are loved the way our Father loves His Son Jesus. But we do not experience and enjoy this, except as much as we are changed to be like Jesus so we can benefit from this like Jesus does.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Com7fy what are your thoughts on these scriptures provided here (linked)?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

@EVERYONE thanks for sharing. It is late my time so I will try catch up a little more latter

 

[bbbbbbb]

Your response here..

I do not think you understood what we were quoting from. What do you need a Priest for when there was no sin and no plan of salvation given because mankind had not fallen into sin? You do know that Priests are written into God's plan of salvation right and given after the fall of mankind not before right?

Take care.

I fear that you fail to understand the point. The writer of Hebrews uses the person of Melchizedek as being a priest comparable to Jesus Christ. If, what you say is true, then Jesus Christ is no priest at all because, according to your hypothesis, Melchizedek was not a priest at all. Nevertheless we have lengthy writing in Hebrews stating that Melchizedek was, indeed, a priest, and that Jesus Christ was a priest after his order. Moreover, the writer of Hebrews has no difficulty in making it quite explicit that Jesus Christ serves both as the high priest of His people, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time through His blood and that He perpetually intercedes for His people as high priest seated on the right hand of God the Father.

 

[Leaf473]

For a number of reasons, which are fairly comprehensive, as about as comprehensive as we can get in terms of cataphatic theology:

• God is an eternal being, and Jesus Christ is likewise eternal, having been begotten of the Father in eternity, “before all ages” as the Nicene Creed (which is the basis of the CF.com) expresses it so eloquently. This is also expressed in the Gospel According to John (in the Incarnation Pericope, John 1:1-18).
• Through Christ, all things were made (John 1:2), which again, is a central article of faith in the Nicene Creed. Since spacetime is a thing, this means that God created spacetime and has dominion over it. If spacetime were not a creature, because of the centrality of spacetime to the physical universe, it would have the effect of undermining the Christian doctrine of creation ex nihlo, and one could even make an argument that God the Holy Trinity was a demiurge, with spacetime being the true deity; this metaphysical point is one of my chief criticisms of Mormonism (which is conceptually similiar, albeit worse, insofar as Mormonism postulates that matter existed from eternity and that God merely rearranged matter, as opposed to the account in the Gospel of John wherein the Father by His only begotten Son and Word, creates all things.
• Because of the intimate involvement of the only begotten Son and Word of God, Jesus Christ, in the process of creation, we can state with Evangelical and Scriptural confidence that it would be entirely erroneous to associate the ministry of God the Son only with His intervention to free us from the wages of sin, which are death, through His glorious resurrection, and His future (from our perspective) juridicial ministry as Christ Pantocrator, because while they are critically important soteriological and eschatological events, Scripture also attests to Christ our Savior, as the Logos or Word of God, being the means by which all things were made (John 1:1-18 , with particular emphasis on John 1:1-2)

From this, we can understand the saving work of Christ on the cross as a recreation of Humanity in His image, in which we were glorified, as hinted at before His entry into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday at the Transfiguration, when Moses and Elijah were momentarily present with our Lord amidst the uncreated light of Tabor. And likewise, we can understand the future dread judgement seat of Christ as a further recreation of humanity, this time, not just the human nature itself, but rather the entire resurrected humanity on an individual level, with those who embrace our Lord being united with Him for all eternity and those who continue in wickedness being consigned to the Lake of Fire for all eternity*.

*As CS Lewis liked to point out, this is the preference of those who are damned; I think his remark that the Gates of Hell are locked on the inside is an extremely insightful comment on the profoundly self-destructive aspects of impassioned human behavior.

Thank you for this post. To me it shows some of the deep things that are available in the scriptures!

 

[The Liturgist]

Thank you for this post. To me it shows some of the deep things that are available in the scriptures!

Thank you, that’s very kind! There is also a great wealth of insight available in the writings of the Church Fathers through the ages, and some exceptional beauty to be found in traditional liturgical texts. Indeed the initiative I am a part of exists to make available in the public domain additional English language liturgical resources including beautiful prayers, litanies, anaphoras (Eucharistic prayers) and collects, and exquisite hymns, canticles and metrical homilies.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I fear that you fail to understand the point. The writer of Hebrews uses the person of Melchizedek as being a priest comparable to Jesus Christ. If, what you say is true, then Jesus Christ is no priest at all because, according to your hypothesis, Melchizedek was not a priest at all. Nevertheless we have lengthy writing in Hebrews stating that Melchizedek was, indeed, a priest, and that Jesus Christ was a priest after his order. Moreover, the writer of Hebrews has no difficulty in making it quite explicit that Jesus Christ serves both as the high priest of His people, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time through His blood and that He perpetually intercedes for His people as high priest seated on the right hand of God the Father.

Well none of that is true. I did indeed understand what you wrote. Let me ask you again because you did not answer the question or understand what was being asked of you. How can the weekly Sabbath point to rest in Jesus when it points backwards to the finished work of creation before mankind sinned? If there was no sin why would you need a Priest? If there was no sin where are your "shadow laws"? Was the Priesthood made before the fall of mankind or after the fall of mankind? Was Gods' plan of salvation given before sin or after sin? Do you understand what is being asked now?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Well none of that is true. Let me ask you again because you did not answer the question or understand what was being asked of you. How can the weekly Sabbath point to rest in Jesus when it points backwards to the finished work of creation before mankind sinned?

When you stated "none of that is true" do you also mean that it is not true that Melchizedek was a priest? If so, how do you view his stated role in Hebrews as a priest?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

When you stated "none of that is true" do you also mean that it is not true that Melchizedek was a priest? If so, how do you view his stated role in Hebrews as a priest?

You just avoided answering anything in the post you are responding to. You do not have to answer my questions if you do not want to. I am happy to answer them for you. There was no Priesthood when there was no sin. It is impossible for the Sabbath to be a shadow law of anything because it points "backwards" to the finished work of creation as a memorial of creation "Remember the Sabbath day" - Exodus 20:8. Not forwards to things to come because there was no sin when the Sabbath was created for all mankind *Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27.