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MARK OF THE BEAST - REVELATION 13-14; 17; 18

Douggg

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Sorry Doug why do you think Deuteronomy 31:9-13 was a prophecy? I do not see anywhere in these scriptures that they are a prophecy to be honest. From my understanding Deuteronomy 31:9-13 is referring to the Jubilee (shmita). Context is given here in Deuteronomy 31:7-8 which is in reference to the promised land and v10 is the Jubilee (year of release).
I don't think Deuteronomy 31:9-13 was a prophecy. But it was a requirement that Moses made for all future leaders of Israel - that gives insight to what the confirming of the covenant for 7 years will be.

The Antichrist is a person who will be anointed the King of Israel, instead of and against the rightful King of Israel - Jesus.

The Antichrist, as the leader of Israel, will have the law read to the nation of Israel for the 7 year cycle required by Moses. It is intended to be a for every 7 years event.

Regarding the Jubilee issue of release from debt and servitude (on a 49 year cycle), there was also the release of the land for being worked every 7 years.

There has been an interruption to observing the reading of the law requirement because it can only be done while the Jews are in the land, and also from the place of God's choosing which the Jews take to be the temple mount.

Moses himself was not allowed to go into the land, so he made the requirement for all future leaders of Israel, so the future generational children of Israel would never forget the covenant of why they were given the land. In essence, confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant, on a 7 year cycle.

So the reading of the law, from the place of God's choosing, confirming that God gave the land to the children of Israel as theirs forever, will not happen until after Gog/Magog and the elimination of Islam's presence from the temple mount.

So what it boils down to is the confirmation of the covenant for 7 years in Daniel 9:27 is 7 literal years.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I don't think Deuteronomy 31:9-13 was a prophecy. But it was a requirement that Moses made for all future leaders of Israel - that gives insight to what the confirming of the covenant for 7 years will be.

The Antichrist is a person who will be anointed the King of Israel, instead of and against the rightful King of Israel - Jesus.

The Antichrist, as the leader of Israel, will have the law read to the nation of Israel for the 7 year cycle required by Moses. It is intended to be a for every 7 years event.

Regarding the Jubilee issue of release from debt and servitude (on a 49 year cycle), there was also the release of the land for being worked every 7 years.

There has been an interruption to observing the reading of the law requirement because it can only be done while the Jews are in the land, and also from the place of God's choosing which the Jews take to be the temple mount.

Moses himself was not allowed to go into the land, so he made the requirement for all future leaders of Israel, so the future generational children of Israel would never forget the covenant of why they were given the land. In essence, confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant, on a 7 year cycle.

So the reading of the law, from the place of God's choosing, confirming that God gave the land to the children of Israel as theirs forever, will not happen until after Gog/Magog and the elimination of Islam's presence from the temple mount.

So what it boils down to is the confirmation of the covenant for 7 years in Daniel 9:27 is 7 literal years.
Hi Doug have a re-read of my earlier post (post # 399 linked). It was edited before you posted this one as I had some mistakes in it. Sorry about that. I will provided it below so you do not need to chase it.

"Sorry Doug why do you think Deuteronomy 31:9-13 was a prophecy? I do not see anywhere in these scriptures that they are a prophecy to be honest. From my understanding Deuteronomy 31:9-13 it is referring to the seventh year Sabbatical (see also Leviticus 25:1-7) year or the sabbath of the land. Every seventh year was a sabbatical year and seven weeks of sabbatical years (7 weeks of years 7x7 = 49 Sabbatical years) was the year of Jubilee (shmita) *see Leviticus 25:8-10. Context is given here in Deuteronomy to the sabbatical years (every seventh year) in Deuteronomy 31:7-8 which is in reference to the promised land and v10 being the year of release. Are you referring to the sabbatical years (every seventh year) or "Sabbath of sabbaths" in Jubilee (49 year Jubilee) from Leviticus 25:8-10?

"And you shall count seven weeks of years, seven times seven years, so that the time of the seven weeks of years shall be to you forty-nine years. Then you shall send abroad the loud trumpet on the tenth day of the seventh month; on the day of atonement you shall send abroad the loud trumpet throughout all your land. And you shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants; it shall be a jubilee for you, when each of you shall return to his property and each of you shall return to his family." (Leviticus 25:8-10)."

Take Care.
 
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Douggg

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Then when we come to Revelation 13, we have Military power represented in the first beast and the propaganda machine for Economic power in the second beast.
The first beast that blasphemes God's name and the second beast that does the lying miracles - are both persons.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The first beast that blasphemes God's name and the second beast that does the lying miracles - are both persons.
That for me is debatable. This is because not only can a beast be in reference to a king but also a kingdom and power as shown in Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom on earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
 
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Douggg

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Hi Doug have a re-read of my earlier post (post # 399 linked). It was edited before you posted this one. Sorry about that. I will provided it below so you do not need to chase it.

"Sorry Doug why do you think Deuteronomy 31:9-13 was a prophecy? I do not see anywhere in these scriptures that they are a prophecy to be honest. From my understanding Deuteronomy 31:9-13 it is referring to the seventh year Sabbatical (see also Leviticus 25:1-7) year or the sabbath of the land. Every seventh year was a sabbatical year and seven weeks of sabbatical years (7 weeks of years 7x7 = 49 Sabbatical years) was the year of Jubilee (shmita) *see Leviticus 25:8-10. Context is given here in Deuteronomy to the sabbatical years (every seventh year) in Deuteronomy 31:7-8 which is in reference to the promised land and v10 being the year of release. Are you referring to the sabbatical years (every seventh year) or "Sabbath of sabbaths" in Jubilee (49 year Jubilee) from Leviticus 25:8-10?

"And you shall count seven weeks of years, seven times seven years, so that the time of the seven weeks of years shall be to you forty-nine years. Then you shall send abroad the loud trumpet on the tenth day of the seventh month; on the day of atonement you shall send abroad the loud trumpet throughout all your land. And you shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants; it shall be a jubilee for you, when each of you shall return to his property and each of you shall return to his family." (Leviticus 25:8-10)."

Take Care.
That's the requirement - every Sabbatical year for the land.

But I am not so sure that the Jews have kept an accurate record of what that is. I would have to do an internet search, or maybe you could of when is the next one.

Also, it has to be considered that the little horn (who become the Antichrist) in Daniel 7 seeks to change the times and seasons.
 
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Douggg

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That for me is debatable. This is because not only can a beast be in reference to a king but also a kingdom and power as shown in Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom on earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
I have no disagreement that the first beast in Revelation 13 represents both a person, i.e. a king, and his kingdom.

The issue is what is his kingdom? My view is that it is the EU, with allies of post rapture United States and Canada those last 42 months before Jesus returns.


upload_2021-11-6_0-47-43.jpeg
 
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LoveGodsWord

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That's the requirement every Sabbatical year for the land. But I am not so sure that the Jews have kept an accurate record of what that is. I would have to do an internet search, or maybe you could of what is the next one. Also, it has to be considered that the little horn (who become the Antichrist) in Daniel 7 seeks to change the times and seasons.

Yes I think the Jews have lost track of the Jubilees. That is my understanding as well from a paper by Bergsma called "Once again, the Jubilee every 49 or 50 years".
 
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eclipsenow

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The first beast that blasphemes God's name and the second beast that does the lying miracles - are both persons.

That could be true - and they could be Roman officials in Asia Minor at the time. At least, that's what Dr Paul Barnett thinks. That's the historicist Amil position. The mark of the beast could be white stones used as tickets that the people had to carry in to give at the games where Christians were being killed in honour of the new Caesar. That's another suggestion of Barnett.

But the symbolic Amil view suggests that while the beasts might be more literal - and known historical figures given away by the 666 - the mark might better be seen as that generation's reverence for those people, their reaction to them. Then it becomes more spiritual and symbolic.

Now, what's with the 666? First, the Hebrew number symbolism is significant, in that 6 is the number of a man. It's the number of the day we were created on, the days of the week we work, and short of God's perfect 7.

There's also another potential twist - the gematria (taking Hebrew letters as numbers) for both "BEAST" and / or "Nero Caesar" apparently both equal 666 when added up from the Hebrew.

In other words, don't bind your politics and materialism to your hands and forehead. Don't worship your leader or money. Stay true to Christ - no matter what happens. Jesus is worth it. Instead - be one of those in the very next Chapter that have their Father's name written on their foreheads!

This video explains more - 11 minutes for the second half of Revelation - well worth it. Share at church!
 
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Douggg

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Yes I think the Jews have lost track of the Jubilees. That is my understanding as well from a paper by Bergsma called "Once again, the Jubilee every 49 or 50 years". I agree that the little horn changes times and laws. This again though can refer to a king or kingdom.
The "Shemitah" year of rest - i.e. 7 years - then another Shemitah year of rest is from what I am reading on the internet is from September 2021 to September 2022.

So we are in the Shemitah year of rest right now.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Also, it has to be considered that the little horn (who become the Antichrist) in Daniel 7 seeks to change the times and seasons.
I agree that the little horn changes times and laws. This again though can refer to a king or kingdom. It is interesting also if you look at Daniel 2:31-45 and the Great image of man and the Roman empire being as legs of iron. What comes after is the two feet of 10 toes made of iron and clay. There could possibly be application to an alliance (e.g EU) or something similar like your saying for sure.
 
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Douggg

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That could be true - and they could be Roman officials in Asia Minor at the time. At least, that's what Dr Paul Barnett thinks. That's the historicist Amil position. The mark of the beast could be white stones used as tickets that the people had to carry in to give at the games where Christians were being killed in honour of the new Caesar. That's another suggestion of Barnett.

But the symbolic Amil view suggests that while the beasts might be more literal - and known historical figures given away by the 666 - the mark might better be seen as that generation's reverence for those people, their reaction to them. Then it becomes more spiritual and symbolic.

Now, what's with the 666? First, the Hebrew number symbolism is significant, in that 6 is the number of a man. It's the number of the day we were created on, the days of the week we work, and short of God's perfect 7.

There's also another potential twist - the gematria (taking Hebrew letters as numbers) for both "BEAST" and / or "Nero Caesar" apparently both equal 666 when added up from the Hebrew.

In other words, don't bind your politics and materialism to your hands and forehead. Don't worship your leader or money. Stay true to Christ - no matter what happens. Jesus is worth it. Instead - be one of those in the very next Chapter that have their Father's name written on their foreheads!

This video explains more - 11 minutes for the second half of Revelation - well worth it. Share at church!
The 666, I am still awaiting insight of what that one is. Same for the mark. I have heard the speculations.

I think that once the little horn person becomes the leader of the EU then it may become clear, regarding 666.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The 666, I am still awaiting insight of what that one is. Same for the mark. I think that once the little horn person becomes the leader of the EU then it may become clear, regarding 666.

I believe as shown in the OP here that the "Little Horn" represents the Roman Catholic Church authority (not the people) and the number 666 is the popes name in Roman numerals.
 
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Douggg

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I believe as shown in the OP here that the "Little Horn" represents the Roman Catholic Church authority (not the people) and the number 666 is the popes name in Roman numerals. (see linked post here)
I don't think the RCC authorities have required the people to take the number of the pope, or his name, or his mark on their right hand or forehead.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I don't think the RCC authorities have required the people to take the number of the pope, or his name, or his mark on their right hand or forehead.
Revelation 13 and Revelation 14 is over who we are worshiping or who we worship (God or man). We receive the number of his name by following after the first beast. The number is only to help identify who the man is (the pope). This is how I believe we receive the beast mark which is who we believe and follow after (God or man). We receive the beast number or the number of His name by following him.
 
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klutedavid

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I believe as shown in the OP here that the "Little Horn" represents the Roman Catholic Church authority (not the people) and the number 666 is the popes name in Roman numerals.
Is it the 'little horn' or the woman who sits on the scarlet beast?

Revelation 17:3
And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns.

We know the woman is a city because Revelation tells us that much.

Revelation 17:18
The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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VICARIUS FILII DEI 666, The Number of the Beast in Greek, Latin and Hebrew

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Note that according to verse 17, there are three different characteristics that distinguish the beast:
  • his mark (of authority)
  • his name
  • the number of his name (666).
It might be argued by some that 666 must be applied to one man's name, and that this will then help identify him as the antichrist. I would offer the following verse to show that 666 need not apply solely to a man's name:

Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

The same Greek word translated as name (onoma: G3686) that appears in Revelation 13:17-18 is also used in chapter 19:16, so clearly the word can also apply to a title, and not just one man's name. Now, we are told that it takes a certain understanding and wisdom to discern just how this number is actually applied. Based on the fact that 666 can apply to a title, below are several words and phrases that have been put forth over the centuries as probable solutions to the enigma of 666.

GREEK
The numeric equivalents of Greek letters can also be found in the Encyclopedia Britannica under "Languages of the World", Table 8.

The ancient Greek word for "the Latin speaking man" is LATEINOS

L = 30 lambda
A = 1 alpha
T = 300 tau
E = 5 epsilon
I = 10 iota
N = 50 nu
O = 70 omicron
S = 200 sigma
------------
666

NOTE: Latin is the official language of the Roman Catholic Church. Church Documents are usually published first in Latin, and then translated from the Latin into other languages. The association of "Lateinos" with 666 was first suggested by Irenæus (ca. 130-202 A.D.) who proposed in his Against Heresies that it might be the name of the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7:7.

Then also Lateinos has the number six hundred and sixty-six; and it is a very probable [solution], this being the name of the last kingdom [of the four seen by Daniel]. For the Latins are they who at present bear rule: I will not, however, make any boast over this [coincidence].

Source: Against Heresies, by Irenæus, Book 5, chapter 30, paragraph 3.
St. Irenaeus biography online at the New Advent Catholic web site.

The ancient Greek for
"The Latin Kingdom" is

HE LATINE BASILEIA
BASILEIA is Strong's # G932 The ancient Greek for
"Italian Church" is
ITALIKA EKKLESIA EKKLESIA is Strong's # G1577 And in ancient Greek
the word APOSTATES And in ancient Greek
the word for "tradition"

PARADOSIS

Strong's # G3862
H = 0 (transliterated)
E = 8 eta

L = 30 lambda
A = 1 alpha
T = 300 tau
I = 10 iota
N = 50 nu
E = 8 eta

B = 2 beta
A = 1 alpha
S = 200 sigma
I = 10 iota
L = 30 lambda
E = 5 epsilon
I = 10 iota
A = 1 alpha
666

I
= 10 iota
T = 300 tau
A = 1 alpha
L = 30 lambda
I = 10 iota
K = 20 kappa
A = 1 alpha

E = 5 epsilon
K = 20 kappa
K = 20 kappa
L = 30 lambda
E = 8 eta
S = 200 sigma
I = 10 iota
A = 1 alpha
666


A
= 1 alpha
P = 80 pi
O = 70 omicron
ST = 6 stigma*
A = 1 alpha
T = 300 tau
E = 8 eta
S = 200 sigma
666

* Stigma is a now obsolete Greek character, but it appears in the New Testament in Rev 13:18 to give the value 666 (chi xi stigma - See Strong's Concordance, # G5516).

P = 80 pi
A = 1 alpha
R = 100 rho
A = 1 alpha
D = 4 delta
O = 70 omicron
S = 200 sigma
I = 10 iota
S = 200 sigma
666

LATIN

NUMERAL NAME VALUE
I unus 1
V quinque 5
X decem 10
L quinquaginta 50
C centum 100
D quingenti 500
M mille 1000

VICARIUS FILII DEI

THE LITERAL MEANING: VICARIUS - substituting for, or in place of
FILII - means son
DEI - means GOD

V = 5
I = 1
C = 100
A = no value
R = no value
I = 1
U/V = 5
S = no value
..............
112

F
= no value
I = 1
L = 50
I = 1
I = 1
--------
53

D = 500
E = no value
I = 1
--------
501

-------

112 + 53 + 501 = 666

................

DUX CLERI
translated means Captain of the Clergy LUDOVICUS
translated means Vicar of the Court
D = 500
U = 5
X = 10

C = 100
L = 50
E = no value
R = no value
I = 1
----------------
666

L
= 50
U = 5
D = 500
O = no value
V = 5
I = 1
C = 100
U = 5
S = no value
----------------
666
....................

HEBREW

The numeric equivalents of Hebrew letters can be found in the Encyclopedia Britannica under "Languages of the World", Table 50.
ROMIITH
means the Roman Kingdom

R = 200 resh
O = 6 waw (vav)
M = 40 mem
I = 10 yod
I = 10 yod
TH = 400 taw
--------------
666


ROMITI
means the Roman Man

R = 200 resh
O = 6 waw (vav)
M = 40 mem
I = 10 yod
T = 400 taw
I = 10 yod
----------
666


Note:

  • Lateinos, Ecclesia Italika, and Romith are cited as possible solutions by Johannes Gerhard (1582-1637), a Lutheran, in his Adnotationes in Apocalypsin, page 110.
  • Romith, Vicarius Filii Dei, Dux Cleri, Ordinarius Ovilis Christi Pastor, and Dic Lux are cited by the rector of Berlin, Andreas Helwig [or Helwich] (1572-1643) in his Antichristus Romanus, in proprio suo nomine, numerum illum Apocalypticum (DCLXVI) continente proditus, published in 1612 in Wittenberg.
  • Dux Cleri is cited by Walter Brute (or Britte), a fourteenth century follower of Wycliff, in his Registrum, page 356.
  • Ludovicus was proposed by James Bicheno (d. 1831), a British minister and author, applying it at the time to the French King Louis XIV, as the two-horned beast from the earth.
  • He Latine Basileia and Lateinos are cited by Alexander Campbell (1788-1866), founder of the Disciples of Christ, in A Debate on the Roman Catholic Religion of 1837.
See The PROPHETIC FAITH OF OUR FATHERS, The Historical Development of Prophetic Interpretation, by Le Roy Edwin Froom, Volumes II and IV, published by the Review and Herald Publishing Association, Washington D.C., Copyright 1948.

This relationship of 666 in Greek, Latin, and Hebrew is only one relatively small, yet important indicator that the Papacy is the Antichrist and the beast from the sea of Revelation 13. This association by itself proves little, as 666 can fit other people using the same methods. All the other biblical characteristics of the Antichrist must be considered and met as well, then this association becomes significant.

An objection has been raised that the method of gematria used above to calculate the Roman numeral value of phrases is incorrect. The word VICARIUS it is argued, must be calculated with letters grouped as follows: VI=6 C=100 A=0 R=0 IU= 4 S=0, for a value of only 110, instead of 112. This is patently incorrect. The value of each individual letter is to be added to yield a total value. It is totally irrelevant to the calculation if adjacent letters can be combined in groups to give a value. This assertion that letters must be grouped is nothing but sheer nonsense.

666 and CÆSAR NERO


Some will suggest that the book of Revelation was written only for those living at the time, and that 666 most probably applies to Cæsar Nero, who ruled Rome from 54 to 68 A.D., rather than someone from latter centuries. This point of view, which suggests Revelation had an immediate application to the first century, rather than being prophetic, is known as preterism, and is commonly held by the Catholic Church. So, just how is Nero linked to 666?

The preterist takes a relatively uncommon form of Nero's name, Nero Cæsar or Cæsar Nero, and adds an "n", resulting in Neron Cæsar. Next the Latin is transliterated into Aramaic, resulting in nrwn qsr, which when using the numeric equivalent of the letters, then adds up to 666 as follows:

Nun = 50
Resh = 200
Waw = 6
Nun = 50

Qoph = 100
Samech = 60
Resh = 200
...................
666

An example of this spelling has apparently been recently discovered in one of the Dead Sea scrolls. If you use the same process, but without the added "n" the result is 616. Interestingly, some early manuscripts have 616 rather than 666, but even scholars such as Irenæus [A.D. 120-202] attribute the 616 to only a copyist error (Against Heresies: Book V Chapter XXX.), "this number [666] being found in all the most approved and ancient copies" [of the Apocalypse] and asserts that "men who saw John face to face bearing their testimony" [to it - 666].

There is a problem though with the above calculation. According to the rules of Jewish numerology, known as gematria, when the letter Nun appears a second time in a word, it is known as a "Final", and takes the value of 700.* So to be precise, NRWN QSR actually adds up to 1316 and not 666.

*Source: Behind Numerology, by Shirley Blackwell Lawrence, copyright 1989, published by Newcastle Publishing Co., Inc., North Hollywood, California, ISBN 0-87877-145-X, page 41.

So the preterist calculation which attributes 666 to Nero, however, is nothing more than a rather desperate attempt to find some likely candidate for the Antichrist other than the Papacy. (source: to the above is from Biblelight by Michael Scheifer)

................

For me personally the popes of the Catholic church's adding up to 666 in three different languages is more than coincidence that in my personal view cannot be ignored because the probability that this can take place in three different languages by chance is extremely low

Take Care.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Is it the 'little horn' or the woman who sits on the scarlet beast?

Revelation 17:3
And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns.

We know the woman is a city because Revelation tells us that much.

Revelation 17:18
The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.

Different imagery from different prophecies in Daniel and Revelation. The woman on the scarlet colored beast also represents the unfaithful Mother church (RCC - not the people but what it teaches) *Revelation 17:1-10
 
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Douggg

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Is it the 'little horn' or the woman who sits on the scarlet beast?
This, but the forum rules are unclear about what can be said in that regards of being the Vatican.
 
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klutedavid

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Different imagery from different prophecies in Daniel and Revelation. The woman on the scarlet colored beast also represents the unfaithful Mother church (RCC - not the people but what it teaches) *Revelation 17:1-10
So how do you define the scarlet beast?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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This, but the forum rules are unclear about what can be said in that regards of being the Vatican.
Thanks Doug, I think I have tried to make it very clear in this OP that the scarlet colored (scarlet in scripture represents sin - Isaiah 1:18) woman and the beasts application to the Roman Catholic Church is not to the people but to the Church's teachings and to the teachings of it's daughters (apostate Protestantism) who have departed Gods Word. My personal belief according to the scriptures is that Gods' people are in every Church and God is calling us all out from following man-made teachings and traditions back to the pure Word of God as God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. God is calling us all where ever we might be back to His Word.

God bless.
 
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