Freedom or Socialism?

[pacomascarot]

Why not? A free market should be free, right?

The people who are gaming the stock market and the economy are able to game it to their advantage because they learned how the game works. They should be allowed to do with our money whatever it is they want to do with it. They have earned it. If they crater the economy and it destroys the retirement of a generation then so be it. They have the money, they have the power. It's how it is supposed to be.

The real problem with America is there are TOO MANY rules on our version of capitalism. I mean a good capitalist can no longer poison a towns drinking water with hexavalent chromium because a bunch of lesser beings found that their precious babies were dying of horrific cancers. Sorry bubs but that's the cost of FREEDOM!

Well, I don't know, maybe that is a little pie-in-the-sky, but given that we used to and still do have a few religious communes around, there might be a way to make it work. It would require freedom to figure it out though.

Just so long as I'm not required to care about them as human beings. If they are not working they are not in my line of sight. I have no time for people to be lazy and unproductive.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Whining? Not at all! I'm American I know the value of capitalism! I'm just rejoicing in what it can fully be.

Keep that energy.

Thankfully he doesn't have any employees and he can do it all himself.

Originally he didn't have any employees, just his wife. He was able to hire one person at the end of his first year. Around 2 years in...he had maybe 20 employees.

Elon Musk made his billions in the tech and dot com sectors. Those are largely coming out of Silicon Valley historically.

Oh ok...so California didn't have squat to do with it. He's smart and he worked hard.

Last I checked Elon didn't make any roads, sewers, or electrical grid let alone the internet his entire fortune started in.

None of which is exclusive to California. If California is inefficient with its taxes (and socialists frequently are) and there's an endless supply of poor and uneducated people swarming in (and there is, because they want the free stuff California offers) then moving seems like a smart choice, eh comrade?

Don't read much history?

The funny answer here would be "I was educated in California and they told me only black and brown people suffer in history...white people have always had a life of ease and privilege"

But I'll just say this has nothing to do with capitalism now.

Like I said, I agree! Capitalism rocks! And we need fewer controls on capitalism so we can live as good as the capitalist winners in the Gilded Age. They RULED!

Glad you kept that energy! Now get out there and be somebody!

 

[pacomascarot]

Originally he didn't have any employees, just his wife. He was able to hire one person at the end of his first year. Around 2 years in...he had maybe 20 employees.

Why did he hire all those people? I thought he was a self-made man and the reason I respect him so much and agree he is worthy of earning millions of dollars per hour is because he's able to do it all himself.

If I have to keep track of all the "helpers" he has then it kind of makes me wonder if he is worthy of being a centibillionaire.

None of which is exclusive to California. If California is inefficient with its taxes (and socialists frequently are) and there's an endless supply of poor and uneducated people swarming in (and there is, because they want the free stuff California offers) then moving seems like a smart choice, eh comrade?

For some mysterious reason, though, most of the tech companies you enjoy the products of started off in California and most of them remain there. Some started moving offshore to hide money from the government but you'll note the executives all still LIVE in California. Musk is special in that he was so angry about having to pay for life in California that he moved himself to Texas where he can enjoy more of his money without having to give a care to the world around him.

Glad you kept that energy! Now get out there and be somebody!

I already am! That's why I like Capitalism so much! I have earned enough to earn the right to access healthcare!

 

[Ana the Ist]

Why did he hire all those people?

Because he was successful and his business grew.

If I have to keep track of all the "helpers" he has then it kind of makes me wonder if he is worthy of being a centibillionaire.

Well since anyone can pack an order into a box, there aren't a lot of millionaires doing that.

For some mysterious reason, though, most of the tech companies you enjoy the products of started off in California and most of them remain there.

Some mysterious reason? You had a cutting edge tech sector because of the universities. Now those universities are saying math is racist. California poisoned the well.

 

[pacomascarot]

Because he was successful and his business grew.

I still don't understand why he needed all those other people.

Well since anyone can pack an order into a box, there aren't a lot of millionaires doing that.

Apparently Jeff can't pack boxes? Yet he makes millions of dollars per hour (literally). I thought he was worth my respect, but if he can't pack a simple box I have to wonder.

Some mysterious reason? You had a cutting edge tech sector because of the universities. Now those universities are saying math is racist. California poisoned the well.

Did Cal Tech say that? Stanford saying that? Is that why so many tech companies are still in Silicon Valley?

 

[Ana the Ist]

I still don't understand why he needed all those other people.

Yeah...you don't understand how business works. That's apparent.

Apparently Jeff can't pack boxes?

I'm sure he can, and did, that first year.

Did Cal Tech say that? Stanford saying that? Is that why so many tech companies are still in Silicon Valley?

A Statement from the Mathematics Department | Mathematics

The university has made available many ideas and resources for us to use as we think about, and move toward enacting, strategies to help us reflect on the present state and to make meaningful plans for how to improve the inequities and eradicate racism in the mathematics community.

So California has decided to try selling activism and racial outrage instead of math. If you want to make money off of black outrage, follow the BLM/Patrice Cullors model of selling t-shirts and charging fees to spout psuedo Marxist garbage then moving into your fourth mansion. Who knew selling socialism to idiots was so profitable?

The tech sector is moving to Texas where they don't have to "decolonize" math by teaching Aztec counting systems that no one uses.

How Austin’s Start-up Sector Won the Pandemic

 

[Clare73]

Given that literally every single health insurance plan I've seen and been involved in in the last 25 years has In-Network and Out-of-Network coverage I doubt you are correct there.
But if you have a citation or source of information I'd be interested in reading it.

That simply means you've always been in an HMO, regardless of what it is called.

Feel free to do the research.

 

[Clare73]

I would like to have the freedom to invest in a stock market not manipulated by hedge funds, to collaboratively own and manage the business I work for, and to have the option to retire to a commune for old folks where I can debate religion and politics until my dying breath.

I don't have this freedom, currently.

Where do we find this currently?

 

[Clare73]

Why not? A free market should be free, right?
Not exactly. It's still free enterprise, but it would elevate me along with my fellow collaborators to becoming business owners and profit sharers.
I'm all about the freedom to explore and implement a variety of business models. Unfortunately we're dominated by and not sheltered from big business, limiting freedoms.

How much capital will you be personally risking in getting this business going?

Oh, really? You want to own it after it's up and running and all the risk of start-up has been worked out at someone else's expense. . .that kind of freedom. . .that's good work if you can get it.

Been entitled too long?

 

[pacomascarot]

Yeah...you don't understand how business works. That's apparent.

So you're telling me that a man who can't pack a cardboard box is sufficiently skilled to earn thousands or millions of dollars per hour?

I'm sure he can, and did, that first year.

The bigger question is: could Amazon run today with just Jeff Bezos doing everything? If not then Jeff needs those employees. In fact, given that Amazon can't be run by Bezos today like it was when he was the only employee it is really hard to say Jeff earns his paycheck. It's almost like he gets his paycheck out of a sense of nostalgia for who he was at one time but is no more.

The university has made available many ideas and resources for us to use as we think about, and move toward enacting,

strategies to help us reflect on the present state and to make meaningful plans for how to improve the inequities and eradicate racism in the mathematics community.

That doesn't say math is racist. It says the math department (as almost all departments in any given university) may have to improve their diversity equity and inclusion game.

So California has decided to try selling activism and racial outrage instead of math.

Not likely. But if you feel you can keep up with a Stanford trained mathematician you go right ahead and dream.

If you want to make money off of black outrage, follow the BLM/Patrice Cullors model of selling t-shirts and charging fees to spout psuedo Marxist garbage then moving into your fourth mansion. Who knew selling socialism to idiots was so profitable?

And who knew selling ginned up fake outrage to Conservatives like yourself was even MORE profitable!

 

[pacomascarot]

That simply means you've always been in an HMO, regardless of what it is called.

Feel free to do the research.

So you can't back up your own claim? That's too bad.

But you shouldn't feel bad about having an opinion you can't support. And some day when you are out on your own and mommy and daddy aren't paying your way you can get back to us with a full analysis of how the big world works!

 

[Clare73]

So you're telling me that a man who can't pack a cardboard box is sufficiently skilled to earn thousands or millions of dollars per hour?
The bigger question is: could Amazon run today with just Jeff Bezos doing everything? If not then Jeff needs those employees. In fact, given that Amazon can't be run by Bezos today like it was when he was the only employee it is really hard to say Jeff earns his paycheck. It's almost like he gets his paycheck out of a sense of nostalgia for who he was at one time but is no more.
That doesn't say math is racist. It says the math department (as almost all departments in any given university) may have to improve their diversity equity and inclusion game.
Not likely. But if you feel you can keep up with a Stanford trained mathematician you go right ahead and dream.

And who knew selling ginned up fake outrage to Conservatives like yourself was even MORE profitable!

At least we agree it is just ginned up and fake. . .

But the usual self-righeous response here to such is now missing. . . hmmm.

 

[Clare73]

So you can't back up your own claim? That's too bad.

Almost as bad as not doing your own research. . .

but you shouldn't feel bad about having an opinion you can't support. And some day when you are out on your own and mommy and daddy aren't paying your way you can get back to us with a full analysis of how the big world works!

Juvenile. . .

You don't have "regular" insurance.
Regular insurance has nothing to do with the doctors you choose, unless the doctor himself will not accept your coverage.
You can purchase "regular" insurance, which has no restrictions by the insurance company regarding your provider.

 

[RDKirk]

Y
So California has decided to try selling activism and racial outrage instead of math. If you want to make money off of black outrage, follow the BLM/Patrice Cullors model of selling t-shirts and charging fees to spout psuedo Marxist garbage then moving into your fourth mansion. Who knew selling socialism to idiots was so profitable?

The tech sector is moving to Texas where they don't have to "decolonize" math by teaching Aztec counting systems that no one uses.

How Austin’s Start-up Sector Won the Pandemic

Yeah but all those folks are transplanted Californians.

 

[pacomascarot]

Almost as bad as not doing your own research. . .

Oh I think we can dispense with that line of reasoning. You see I am a professional researcher. So I've done a lot of my own research. I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts I've done more than you have! And I got paid to do so.

I just don't look up every single goofy thing someone rattles off.

You don't have "regular" insurance.

It says it is.

Regular insurance has nothing to do with the doctors you choose, unless the doctor himself will not accept your coverage.

Methinks you don't know anything about insurance yet. Wait til you get your first real job. Then tell us all about it.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yeah but all those folks are transplanted Californians.

Not all of them...

But let's say they were....what's your point?

They have to go down with the ship? They can leave but their money has to stay?

I'm sure their taxes paved many a road, funded many a school, subsidized plenty of water.

Big tech needs capital, innovation, and a steady supply of science and math grads. California universities are quickly becoming activist hubs that create nothing but complaining and entitlement. Sure, they could pull students from other places...but what's the draw? Obscene housing costs? The growing number of homeless? The high taxes?

Texas seems to have done better to position itself for tech industry growth.

 

[Ana the Ist]

So you're telling me that a man who can't pack a cardboard box is sufficiently skilled to earn thousands or millions of dollars per hour?

That's not even remotely close to what I'm telling you. Try reading my post.

The bigger question is: could Amazon run today with just Jeff Bezos doing everything?

Who would ask that? That's not a question worth asking...let alone "the bigger question".

If not then Jeff needs those employees. In fact, given that Amazon can't be run by Bezos today like it was when he was the only employee it is really hard to say Jeff earns his paycheck. It's almost like he gets his paycheck out of a sense of nostalgia for who he was at one time but is no more.

Like I said...you don't understand business.

Jeff gets the profit because Jeff assumed the risk. The guy packing the boxes assumes no risk. If Amazon closed tomorrow...the guy packing the boxes can find a job packing boxes somewhere else.

He didn't put his money, time, and effort into building a company. He packed boxes. That's his choice.

That doesn't say math is racist. It says the math department

Oh ok...so black, brown, and asian students were getting the right answers but their racist teachers were failing them anyway?

(as almost all departments in any given university)

I don't think you can prove that and it seems like an awful thing to assume about so many people.

Not likely. But if you feel you can keep up with a Stanford trained mathematician you go right ahead and dream.

I suppose I can just call them racist until they give me a degree at this point.

And who knew selling ginned up fake outrage to Conservatives like yourself was even MORE profitable!

I didn't buy anything...Cullors didn't take a thin dime from me. Wish I could say the same of the millions she duped.

 

[pacomascarot]

Like I said...you don't understand business.

Orly? If I went to my boss and said "I can't even pack a cardboard box. I want to earn $1million/hr." do you think I'll get it?

Jeff gets the profit because Jeff assumed the risk.

No, his parents who gave him the initial loan to start this biz assumed the risk. Maybe THEY should be the ones making all the money?

The guy packing the boxes assumes no risk. If Amazon closed tomorrow...the guy packing the boxes can find a job packing boxes somewhere else.

Seems you don't know much about business!

He didn't put his money, time, and effort into building a company.

Jeff put his parents' money into it.

Oh ok...so black, brown, and asian students were getting the right answers but their racist teachers were failing them anyway?

I don't know but I bet you are going to belabor this point. Maybe it was related to HIRING. But nah, I'm sure you know everything.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Orly?

Rly.

No, his parents who gave him the initial loan to start this biz assumed the risk. Maybe THEY should be the ones making all the money?

You mean more than the 30 billion their 250k investment has already made them?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...s-to-invest-in-amazon--turning-them-into.html

Yeah, they assumed some of the risk when he needed capital. Turned out to be a good investment.

Seems you don't know much about business!

Manual labor is manual labor. It's rarely worth much by itself.

Jeff put his parents' money into it.

And his own, and now his parents are billionaires too.

What's your point?

I don't know but I bet you are going to belabor this point. Maybe it was related to HIRING. But nah, I'm sure you know everything.

Oh so the head of Stanford is racist and he's passing on superior mathematics professors because they aren't white?

Is that what you're claiming?

 

[TheWhat?]

How much capital will you be personally risking in getting this business going?

Oh, really? You want to own it after it's up and running and all the risk of start-up has been worked out at someone else's expense. . .that kind of freedom. . .that's good work if you can get it.

Been entitled too long?

Nice try. As a skilled worker I am the human capital. We've had varieties of models at work throughout history from craftmens' guilds to cooperatives and the like. We lack the freedom to do this in America because we do not value innovation as much as we say we do. States in Europe are beating us in the area of entrepreneurial ventures.