Why are we not following the science on the leading cause of preventable death?

[Desk trauma]

Ahh, now we are narrowing the goal posts to only smoking around chemicals? That wasn't the discussion.

It’s only narrowing if you ignore part of both my posts. In both I mentioned drug testing and smoking in a refinery. If we’re done with that point of order back to the question you left unanswered: were drug tests for illegal drugs big brother like or only those for nicotine?

 

[renniks]

It’s only narrowing if you ignore part of both my posts. In both I mentioned drug testing and smoking in a refinery. If we’re done with that point of order back to the question you left unanswered: were drug tests for illegal drugs big brother like or only those for nicotine?

Unless you have evidence that cig smoking actually inhibits a persons ability to do thier job, I vote that only the nicotine was going too far.

 

[Gene2memE]

Absolutely agree. And as others have posted. If the government and others can make money off it, who cares how many it kills.

The government does.

Taxing cigarettes is a behavioural disincentive. Australia has more than doubled taxes on smoking in the past decade, and spent more in running anti-smoking schemes and similar.

Net result - tax revenues from smoking have plummeted (falling steadily since 2016, down better than $2 billion in 2020), because household spending on cigarettes has fallen by more than 50%.

And tax revenue continues to fall - household spending on cigarettes is expected to drop by another $300 to $400 million for 2021.

 

[keith99]

The situation for both seems rather similar to me. The same states that have successful covid measures have been doing all the Federal government will allow them to do to discourage smoking.

The same political groups that have resisted sound anti-covid measures are the ones resisting anti smoking measures.

 

[Always in His Presence]

In what way does the government make money off of tobacco? If you're referring to taxes on it, I am pretty sure that whatever money they make via taxes is less than the amount of money they have to spend due to health problems caused by smoking.

The costs involved with the health problems doesn’t cost the government unless the person is on Medicare or Medicaid. The majority of the cost is paid for by individuals

That's not what I asked. Noted that you avoided answering what I actually asked.

Actually, I did indeed answer your question. Think about it. Look at your reasoning and substitute Covid for smoking and viola you sound exactly like an anti vaccination person.

 

[VirOptimus]

Apples and oranges.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Apples and oranges.

add strawberries and grapes and you have a great fruit salad.

 

[KCfromNC]

Actually, I like your comparison.

Let's prevent unvaccinated people from being in the same places people who smoke are prevented from smoking in. Like schools, restaurants, hospitals, aircraft, most businesses, theatres, public transport....

Also - let's have vaccine mandates for workers in the same way we have no smoking mandates for employees of businesses

Would that be fair?

Plus, who pays more for insurance : smokers or non-smokers? There seems to be another obvious parallel from the OP's observation.

 

[KCfromNC]

It's official. Big brother has to interfere with every aspect of people's lives.

If you think large corporations have too much power over normal citizens, feel free to lobby for additional government intervention on what the owners of the means of production can do.

 

[Desk trauma]

Unless you have evidence that cig smoking actually inhibits a persons ability to do thier job, I vote that only the nicotine was going too far.

The majority of people fired for failed drug tests were not inhibited from doing their job by the trace amounts of drug in their systems, especially THC which lingers so long after intoxication has departed, that those test returned as they are set well below the threshold of impairment.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Actually, I did indeed answer your question. Think about it. Look at your reasoning and substitute Covid for smoking and viola you sound exactly like an anti vaccination person.

No, you did not. Think about it - you made a statement that does not relate to the actual question I asked and you based it on an assumption that I would substitute words for the words you actually used and cello I somehow "sound exactly like an anti vaccination person". I asked a question, I didn't make a statement, you are glossing that over.

Noted you still dodge the question. I don't blame you for not wanting to be cornered by your own words.

 

[98cwitr]

Fast Facts

Smoking leads to disease and disability and harms nearly every organ of the body.1​

• More than 16 million Americans are living with a disease caused by smoking.
• For every person who dies because of smoking, at least 30 people live with a serious smoking-related illness.
• Smoking causes cancer, heart disease, stroke, lung diseases, diabetes, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), which includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis.
• Smoking also increases risk for tuberculosis, certain eye diseases, and problems of the immune system, including rheumatoid arthritis.
• Smoking is a known cause of erectile dysfunction in males.

Smoking is the leading cause of preventable death.​

• Worldwide, tobacco use causes more than 7 million deaths per year.2 If the pattern of smoking all over the globe doesn’t change, more than 8 million people a year will die from diseases related to tobacco use by 2030.3
• Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day.1
• On average, smokers die 10 years earlier than nonsmokers.4
• If smoking continues at the current rate among U.S. youth, 5.6 million of today’s Americans younger than 18 years of age are expected to die prematurely from a smoking-related illness. This represents about one in every 13 Americans aged 17 years or younger who are alive today.1

Where is the health mandate forbidding tobacco?

Are we just being selective on what science to follow?

Like smoking, or eating bacon, or any other choice a person makes...it's up to the individual to make those decisions for themselves; like injecting things into their bodies.

 

[renniks]

The majority of people fired for failed drug tests were not inhibited from doing their job by the trace amounts of drug in their systems, especially THC which lingers so long after intoxication has departed, that those test returned as they are set well below the threshold of impairment.

Having worked with smokers and potheads, I'll take the smokers.
No the pothead might not be wasted every day, but it happens.
The smoker needs his hit, but I've never seen where it inhibits thier work.

 

[Desk trauma]

The smoker needs his hit, but I've never seen where it inhibits thier work.

I have.

Needing to stop and smoke, needing to rest while climbing the structure due to reduced lung capacity, having their career shortened/ended by the illnesses caused by long term smoking because they can no longer physically do their job.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Like smoking, or eating bacon, or any other choice a person makes...it's up to the individual to make those decisions for themselves; like injecting things into their bodies.

That's not true at all.

 

[98cwitr]

That's not true at all.

Sure it is, but it's also the individual choice to completely throw liberty in the trash too. Anyone is free enough to condemn their own freedom and rights, as well as hold to personal and individual convictions that others' rights and liberties should be tramped on as well.

Never before America (that I am aware of) was the concept of "inalienable rights" enshrined in lawful documents; albeit one could loosely go all the way back to 1215 to the magna carta to make a case, but it's a loose case at best.

 

[renniks]

That's not true at all.

So, we need someone to tell us what to eat and drink, now?

 

[KCfromNC]

Like smoking, or eating bacon, or any other choice a person makes...it's up to the individual to make those decisions for themselves; like injecting things into their bodies.

Or employing people who make the choice to prolong a deadly pandemic.

 

[Arcangl86]

Sure it is, but it's also the individual choice to completely throw liberty in the trash too. Anyone is free enough to condemn their own freedom and rights, as well as hold to personal and individual convictions that others' rights and liberties should be tramped on as well.

Never before America (that I am aware of) was the concept of "inalienable rights" enshrined in lawful documents; albeit one could loosely go all the way back to 1215 to the magna carta to make a case, but it's a loose case at best.

Eh. Depends on what you mean by enshrined in legal documents. The Declaration of Independence was a legal document in the sense that it was adopted by Congress, it had no actual effect on the law of the then 13 colonies. Even if you do count the Declaration, it was preceded by almost a hundred years by the English Bill of Rights which has the following section.

Now in pursuance of the premises the said Lords Spiritual and Temporal and Commons in Parliament assembled, for the ratifying, confirming and establishing the said declaration and the articles, clauses, matters and things therein contained by the force of law made in due form by authority of Parliament, do pray that it may be declared and enacted that all and singular the rights and liberties asserted and claimed in the said declaration are the true, ancient and indubitable rights and liberties of the people of this kingdom, and so shall be esteemed, allowed, adjudged, deemed and taken to be; and that all and every the particulars aforesaid shall be firmly and strictly holden and observed as they are expressed in the said declaration, and all officers and ministers whatsoever shall serve their Majesties and their successors according to the same in all time to come.

Quite a few of the rights listed in that document actually made it into the US bill of rights.

 

[DaisyDay]

If it has - then science has failed to the tune of 480,000 preventable deaths a year.

Not really - science can advise, not dictate.