Biden Drops the Hammer on Unvaccinated

[Pommer]

Set a deadline to get the vaccine, then lock it up.
(It worked with ivermectin).

 

[muichimotsu]

I never said the unvaccinated get priority over anyone.

And I never said they didn't get treated, but if it's between someone that is vaccinated and someone that isn't, I'm pretty sure triage is going to say, "Yeah, the vaccinated is more likely to survive, they get priority,"

 

[Desk trauma]

Oh my. I am not against regulation or laws that protect people. I am against forcing people to take something into their body they do not want to.

Ah, only some life threatening externalities matter.

 

[Vylo]

No matter why they are not vaccinated does not mean we should not try to treat them. This is my point.

What part of we don't have the resources to treat these people do you not understand?

They are clogging ICUs to the point where people have been sent as far away as Connecticut.

We cannot treat them.

We do not live in an utopia where extra nurses, doctors and hospital space springs forth upon a whim. They have been stretched to their limits and beyond, medical professionals are reaching a breaking point and bailing out compounding the problem.

"Just treat them" is not an option. We cannot do that.

 

[muichimotsu]

You are still lumping all the unvaccinated into one group of right wing Trumpies. That is not the reality. It is easy to dismiss them if you can all of label them as quacks huh.

No, they do a perfect job of it themselves. They don't have to have voted for Trump at all to be enabling the fascist nationalism that encourages this kind of rampant individualism to the detriment of everyone else. The selfishness, the egomania, the delusions of grandeur or persecution, Trump just lit the fuse, this was a powder keg for decades that's just added more fuel over the years.

 

[Aldebaran]

So all people who are alive and healthy I'm seeing. and so few that it isn't significant, and unverified from a random video.

So as I was saying no significant side effects.

According to the testimony of those in the video, they suffered quite a few significant side effects. That is, of course, you would rather label all of those testifying as liars in the "random video" that documents their testimony.
That's actually quite typical. When the vaccine pushers that pretend to care so much about protecting the public are confronted by members of the public that they are being greatly harmed, they are brushed off as "anectodes, random people, unscientific, liars, conspiracy theorists, right wingers, Trump supporters, etc." So much easier than trying to prove anything, isn't it?

 

[Aldebaran]

So...just admit you're an anarchist then? Or a Christian dominionist even, just take that mask off.

The federal government's "enumerated powers" are listed in Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution. Among other things, they include: the power to levy taxes, regulate commerce, create federal courts (underneath the Supreme Court), set up and maintain a military, and declare war.
The Roles of State and Federal Governments.

Note: Nothing telling individual citizens what they have to inject into their bodies.

 

[muichimotsu]

According to the testimony of those in the video, they suffered quite a few significant side effects. That is, of course, you would rather label all of those testifying as liars in the "random video" that documents their testimony.
That's actually quite typical. When the vaccine pushers that pretend to care so much about protecting the public are confronted by members of the public that they are being greatly harmed, they are brushed off as "anectodes, random people, unscientific, liars, conspiracy theorists, right wingers, Trump supporters, etc." So much easier than trying to prove anything, isn't it?

Science doesn't prove, so maybe correct that part of your vocabulary: proof is unequivocal, but demonstration requires avoiding selection bias, logical fallacies and otherwise inaccuracies in how you interpret the data

 

[muichimotsu]

The federal government's "enumerated powers" are listed in Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution. Among other things, they include: the power to levy taxes, regulate commerce, create federal courts (underneath the Supreme Court), set up and maintain a military, and declare war.
The Roles of State and Federal Governments.

Note: Nothing telling individual citizens what they have to inject into their bodies.

So that Supreme Court decision means nothing? Are you just going to ignore the judicial branch when it suits you?

Pretty sure OSHA also might have something to say to you, since that falls under government powers, especially as regards a highly transmissible disease.

 

[Aldebaran]

Science doesn't prove, so maybe correct that part of your vocabulary: proof is unequivocal, but demonstration requires avoiding selection bias, logical fallacies and otherwise inaccuracies in how you interpret the data

Even more reason to doubt the MSM/government narrative on the issue.

 

[Aldebaran]

So that Supreme Court decision means nothing? Are you just going to ignore the judicial branch when it suits you?

Pretty sure OSHA also might have something to say to you, since that falls under government powers, especially as regards a highly transmissible disease.

Oh sure, just as the CDC (Center for Disease Control) has decided it has the power to stop landlords from collecting rent on their own properties, and allow squatters to occupy residences they have no right to be in, and thereby force landlords to give up their properties and means of income.
It'll be even more fun when the Department of Defense gets to start making it's own laws. Maybe even the National Security Agency.

 

[muichimotsu]

Even more reason to doubt the MSM/government narrative on the issue.

LMAO...so you're the expert now? And you don't have a narrative? No one is absolutely objective here, don't pretend like you aren't influenced by media in some sense, even if you're selectively looking for what fits your preconceptions versus any kind of challenge to it. We might've thought initially that herd immunity was doable, but until we get this strain under control and assuming booster shots can reasonably reduce transmission rates, we have to adjust to the data.

Changing with new information is not flip flopping and it's not some dishonest conspiracy like you insinuate: show this claim is substantive and not mere specious inference.

 

[Vylo]

According to the testimony of those in the video, they suffered quite a few significant side effects. That is, of course, you would rather label all of those testifying as liars in the "random video" that documents their testimony.
That's actually quite typical. When the vaccine pushers that pretend to care so much about protecting the public are confronted by members of the public that they are being greatly harmed, they are brushed off as "anectodes, random people, unscientific, liars, conspiracy theorists, right wingers, Trump supporters, etc." So much easier than trying to prove anything, isn't it?

So let them be entered officially into the data. Still not significant. We are talking about debilitating side effects, with a decent chance of actually happening. It has never happened, with any vaccine. And still with this one.

 

[Aldebaran]

So let them be entered officially into the data. Still not significant. We are talking about debilitating side effects, with a decent chance of actually happening. It has never happened, with any vaccine. And still with this one.

They would be entered into the data if the people responsible for doing so weren't dismissing what they are going through. It's the reason Ron Johnson gave them this opportunity to speak out. Even though they have spoken out, and you can hear them speak for themselves, you still say, "It has never happened, with any vaccine. And still with this one."
So even when the actual victims speak, you continue to deny.

 

[KCfromNC]

It's entirely true, and I could point you to many examples, each of which you'd dismiss as "anecdotal".

Interesting - claim there's data then make up excuses why it can't be posted. Perhaps next time we'll hear that the data exists, but lives in Canada so you've never met her.

 

[KCfromNC]

So whether it's a company forcing people to do their will, or a government doing it, it all comes down to controlling individuals by removing their choices.

That's kinda like saying my choice to stop going to work is removed by my company continuing to pay me if I do show up. Weird - almost as if this argument advocates for some sort of universal income from the government. You know, so my choice not to work wouldn't be able to controlled by a company.

 

[KCfromNC]

No matter why they are not vaccinated does not mean we should not try to treat them. This is my point.

Sure, but this "should" is running headlong into the reality of a lack of resources in some areas. In them, some patients will go without being treated because there's no one left to do so.

 

[KCfromNC]

If by effective you mean coercion then I am against that. Telling someone to put something into their body they don't want or else they get no medical treatment is coercion and unethical.

By the time it gets to choosing who to triage, it is far too late for the vaccine to be effective.

And again, the question isn't punishing their choice. It would be a consequence that the unvaccainted on average have a worse outcome. So if there are limited resources, it makes sense that across a large number of patients, more vaccinated patients would be prioritized.

Your frustration or anger towards them does not count as a good reason.

Luckily that's just something someone made up.

 

[TLK Valentine]

No, they do a perfect job of it themselves. They don't have to have voted for Trump at all to be enabling the fascist nationalism that encourages this kind of rampant individualism to the detriment of everyone else. The selfishness, the egomania, the delusions of grandeur or persecution, Trump just lit the fuse, this was a powder keg for decades that's just added more fuel over the years.

I disagree that Donald lit the fuse -- he's a symptom, and he certainly made it worse (as is his habit), but he's not the catalyst.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

We can't conceivably treat everyone because America's healthcare system is so broken with cutthroat capitalism, it'd rather save money than save lives and put people into debt instead of helping them

What are the reasons that we cannot treat everyone?

You can't generalize the idea of free healthcare as then leading to the government being able to dictate anything, because that's a slippery slope fallacy on its face based on paranoia that this situation is anything like actual oppression when a vaccine IS for the public good, not against it like the disinformation spreading worse than the virus.

Why not? The government has done experiments on people without their knowledge and/or consent in the past. I am for a government run healthcare system for people that need it and for a fee for people that want to use it but can afford to pay for it. Making everyone use a government run healthcare system is not necessary or desirable. We can allow people to choose their healthcare providers and provide healthcare for people that cannot afford it.