Biden Drops the Hammer on Unvaccinated

[Vylo]

You seem to be advocating for something that you won't model yourself. You want others to care more about others than they do themselves yet you don't seem to care about them more than yourself. The ethical thing to do is treat everyone that has Covid. It seems you are advocating to tell people with Covid they have to deal with it themselves and you really don't care if they die, hence all the insults toward them.

Do you care about these people at all?

We literally can't care of them if too many get infected, which has happened in several areas. We also can't treat other injuries and illness. These folks are killing themselves and others by refusing life saving medicine at one point, and then drawing on severalfold more medicine to save themselves later on.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

We literally can't care of them if too many get infected, which has happened in several areas. We also can't treat other injuries and illness. These folks are killing themselves and others by refusing life saving medicine at one point, and then drawing on severalfold more medicine to save themselves later on.

So are you advocating not treating them? What is your solution?

 

[Semper-Fi]

What evidence do you have that they're questionable?

For one, COVID-19 vaccinations have killed more people
then all the other vaccines in the last 30 years combined.

https://www.citizensjournal.us/covi...han-all-other-fda-approved-vaccines-combined/
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potential links between COVID-19 vaccination and menstrual changes.
Item of Interest: NIH funds studies to assess potential effects of COVID-19 vaccination on menstruation
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CDC: teens injected with COVID shots have 7.5 times more deaths, 15 times more disabilities, 44 times more hospitalizations than all FDA approved vaccines in 2021
CDC: teens injected with COVID shots have 7.5 times more deaths, 15 times more disabilities, 44 times more hospitalizations than all FDA approved vaccines in 2021

 

[KCfromNC]

Of course not. You would never suggest that the vaccines prevent spread, would you? How dare i misrepresent you!

This would be quoting you:

Weird you'd have to go trolling other threads to pick up quotes which don't match what you've claimed I posted in this thread. But no worries, I get it. Your post was trying to confuse the data that the vaccines are effective with pinning the idea that they're 100% effective on me in an attempt to put up a strawman of some sort.

So now that we've clarified your understanding of what I said by looking at what I actually wrote (e.g. that vaccines "help prevent community spread"), how does that prove I wasn't "addressing the data", as you claimed? Come to think of it, your post also failed to actually list the data you felt was being ignored. Maybe start there.

 

[whatbogsends]

Weird you'd have to go trolling other threads to pick up quotes which don't match what you've claimed I posted in this thread. But no worries, I get it. Your post was trying to confuse the data that the vaccines are effective with pinning the idea that they're 100% effective on me in an attempt to put up a strawman of some sort.

So now that we've clarified your understanding of what I said by looking at what I actually wrote (e.g. that vaccines "help prevent community spread"), how does that prove I wasn't "addressing the data", as you claimed? Come to think of it, your post also failed to actually list the data you felt was being ignored. Maybe start there.

You're still trying frantically to construct a strawman.

Highly vaccinated Israel currently has its the highest rate of infection since the beginning of the pandemic. I posted more on this before, but you tried to frame it as "moving the goalposts" rather than addressing the data which appears to show very little, if any, prevention of spread due to vaccination.

The data in Israel suggests that the vaccines do very little to impede the spread of Covid, particularly regarding the delta variant.

Israel COVID: 1,235,064 Cases and 7,555 Deaths - Worldometer (worldometers.info)

 

[KCfromNC]

You're still trying frantically to construct a strawman.

I'm sure your post is about to explain in detail how what I wrote was doing such a thing, and not immediately try to change the subject to something unrelated.

Highly vaccinated Israel currently has its the highest rate of infection since the beginning of the pandemic.

Oh, well, maybe not. I guess I should have been conditioned by previous posts to have low expectations. Looks like we can add the "but but but Israel" as yet another change of subject when previous anti-vaxx talking points ran head first into reality.

With that out of the way : quick quiz for you - without looking it up, what's the overall fully vaccinated rate in "[h]ighly vaccinated Israel"? And if you don't know, maybe ask yourself why the sources you're seeing failed to mention it.

The data in Israel suggests that the vaccines do very little to impede the spread of Covid, particularly regarding the delta variant.

What data are you referring to here?

 

[Aldebaran]

It’s
“O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave”, not “or”.

Should we change it to, "O'er the land of the quarantined, and the home of the lab rats"?
At least it would be more up to date and in keeping with the times.

 

[Aldebaran]

So if it prevents the disease after more research, you'll take it? But all those people that die or are crippled for life are just expendable to you then?

Certainly sounds like you only care about your own survival and welfare, while everyone else is a means to an end, valuable when they conveniently benefit you, but otherwise, they're on their own, no humanitarian camaraderie or such, that's "weakness". By all means, defend this seemingly sociopathic perspective that cares more about your freedom than any sense of civil welfare.

That is some nice sounding Marx-based rhetoric. However, attempting to shame people into your way of thinking went out of style a couple years ago.

 

[Aldebaran]

They make themselves prisoners by their own stubborn intransigence on something they know as much about as I know about African stilt dancing, which is to say not much at all 99% of the time.

These are lay people that think there's some conspiracy or that they're somehow smarter because they're not being paid off or such, as if that makes them right (it doesn't by necessity)

Does that bother you?

 

[Aldebaran]

Except segregation based on race has no basis in scientific observations, it was purely a colonialist tactic to keep black people submissive post Civil War, so they wouldn't get genuine equality, since that was seen as a threat to American economic stability or other nonsense I'm almost certain one can find in the late 19th to early 20th century in writing.

The point (which you missed) was that choices have consequences. That's what someone was telling me. But it would appear that only some choices are viewed as choices.

 

[Aldebaran]

Oh no, science changing with the data, how awful. It's almost like they've done that before with other vaccines and people rolled with the change instead of flailing around like a petulant child that doesn't get what they want.

So now these people who have been injected 3 or 4 times are just "data". How nice.
Small wonder more people are opting out.

 

[Aldebaran]

great news, pfizer has been fully FDA approved for nearly a month now, and was approved for safety well before that. It is effective against covid19 there is more data about safety for this vaccine than any in history. so no need to be a guinea pig.

Right, the big Comirnaty. I'm still waiting for the drug pushers to tell me where this one is actually available.

 

[Aldebaran]

And there you go with the fear-mongering and false information with your "questionable substances". That is not the truth. Another untruth you seem to keep perpetuating is not respecting the right of people to not get injected. With any right comes responsibility. It's the responsibility of our government to mandate control of the outbreak of a deadly pandemic virus. They have a right to mandate shots, you have the right to refuse and seek employment, entertainment, etc. elsewhere.

That type of logic was used during the Jim Crow years. Looks like it's making a comeback.

 

[Vylo]

So are you advocating not treating them? What is your solution?

Mandate vaccination. If you don't get the vaccination you have to sign a waiver to not be admitted to a hospital. You don't trust doctors when they tell you to get vaccinated, you don't need to trust them to care for you when it comes back to bite you.

 

[Vylo]

Right, the big Comirnaty. I'm still waiting for the drug pushers to tell me where this one is actually available.

You can make an appointment to get the pfizer vaccine virtually anywhere in the US, you probably don't even need an appointment.

 

[Aldebaran]

You can make an appointment to get the pfizer vaccine virtually anywhere in the US, you probably don't even need an appointment.

The original pfizer? No thanks. I want the FDA approved Comirnaty! Don't keep redirecting me back to the old experimental version.

 

[Vylo]

The original pfizer? No thanks. I want the FDA approved Comirnaty! Don't keep redirecting me back to the old experimental version.

It's the same thing.

 

[Aldebaran]

It's the same thing.

Uh huh. Same thing under different name, even though the one that's been approved has a different name that the one that's available under Emergency Authorization, and yet only the EA version can be had?
"Emergency Use" versus "FDA Approved". Words matter.

 

[whatbogsends]

I'm sure your post is about to explain in detail how what I wrote was doing such a thing, and not immediately try to change the subject to something unrelated.

Oh, well, maybe not. I guess I should have been conditioned by previous posts to have low expectations. Looks like we can add the "but but but Israel" as yet another change of subject when previous anti-vaxx talking points ran head first into reality.

With that out of the way : quick quiz for you - without looking it up, what's the overall fully vaccinated rate in "[h]ighly vaccinated Israel"? And if you don't know, maybe ask yourself why the sources you're seeing failed to mention it.

What data are you referring to here?

I believe the vaccination rate in Israel was something like ~80% of eligible and 60-65% overall.

If you disagree that Israel is highly vaccinated, you should take it up with this guy...

Yes, because most people in Israel in general are full vaccinated. This is like saying that data shows that all pro football players injured on the field were wearing a helmet, and concluding that helmets are to blame.

That was you saying "most people in Israel in general are full vaccinated" as a response to high rates of hospitalization for the vaccinated in Israel.

When you were trying to handwave high rates of vaccinated in the hospital in Israel it was "most people are full vaccinated". When i bring up that they have the highest rates of infections at any point in the pandemic it's "what's the overall fully vaccinated rate in "[h]ighly vaccinated Israel"?"

 

[Vylo]

Uh huh. Same thing under different name, even though the one that's been approved has a different name that the one that's available under Emergency Authorization, and yet only the EA version can be had?
"Emergency Use" versus "FDA Approved". Words matter.

It's still the same thing, according to the FDA as enumerated in their approval.