The Trend Toward Atheism

[Fervent]

It's interesting that you assume the role of a preacher rather than of a learner. Didn't Jesus say something about "the least of these"?
Just saying.

Being a disciple doesn't preclude preaching, there isn't some level of qualification needed to be a preacher. "Here I am Lord, send me." is good enough. Whether in foolishness or wisdom, when the gospel is preached it is the power of God. Everyone who believes should be preaching, because it is how God has chosen to save the world.

 

[Hmm]

Being a disciple doesn't preclude preaching, there isn't some level of qualification needed to be a preacher. "Here I am Lord, send me." is good enough. Whether in foolishness or wisdom, when the gospel is preached it is the power of God. Everyone who believes should be preaching, because it is how God has chosen to save the world.

The Lord sends

Being a disciple doesn't preclude preaching, there isn't some level of qualification needed to be a preacher. "Here I am Lord, send me." is good enough. Whether in foolishness or wisdom, when the gospel is preached it is the power of God. Everyone who believes should be preaching, because it is how God has chosen to save the world.

It would be pretty horrible if everyone you met was preaching to you, no? How would that work in a group where everyone was preaching and no one was listening? And no, God doesn't save the world through preachers. He saved the world through Christ and He sends people to listen (His ears), to help (His hands) as well as to preach (His mouth/keyboard).

 

[Fervent]

The Lord sends


It would be pretty horrible if everyone you met was preaching to you, no? How would that work in a group where everyone was preaching and no one was listening? And no, God doesn't save the world through preachers. He saved the world through Christ and He sends people to listen (His ears), to help (His hands) as well as to preach (His mouth/keyboard).

1 Corinthians 1:21, “For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.”

No, I'd love if everyone in my life was constantly preaching the gospel. The Lord sends, yes, but we have ALL been commanded to preach the gospel. The great commission is for every believer, we are all tasked with making disciples and teaching others to obey. All are not prophets, nor do all occupy the office of a teacher, but all are commanded to make disciples and teach the obedience of the gospel.

 

[Hmm]

1 Corinthians 1:21, “For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.”

No, I'd love if everyone in my life was constantly preaching the gospel. The Lord sends, yes, but we have ALL been commanded to preach the gospel. The great commission is for every believer, we are all tasked with making disciples and teaching others to obey. All are not prophets, nor do all occupy the office of a teacher, but all are commanded to make disciples and teach the obedience of the gospel.

I agree as long as it's remembered that teaching does not equate to preaching. It mainly occurs through behaviour, showing love and forgiveness in the way you live your life, as Jesus demonstrated throughout His - He did very little preaching but showed much compassion and loving kindness in His actions.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I agree that their messaging is harsh and uncalled for, my question is whether it is out of a genuine zeal for the lost or simple bigotry. No matter how earnestly we seek God, at the end of the day we still are prisoners of a flesh that opposes God and we will inevitably do and say the wrong thing at points. Offer rebukes, but recognize that ulimately we are in the process of redemption and everyone starts at different points and progresses at their own rate. Our only concern is that we preach the gospel, accountability is for ourselves not others.

Personally, I'm inclined to think that harshness and uncalled for rhetoric isn't justified by zeal for God alone. It's takes a bit more than that.

At any rate, let's not talk past one another here. My initial point earlier was to draw attention to those things that we Christians do that are "less than Christian" in the way we treat people. While I fully understand that when we're doing what we're supposed to be doing in representing the Gospel and that this can and will be often disdained by those who prefer the world over Jesus, at the same time we want to avoid resorting to heinous speech or actions that cause people to get the wrong ideas about Christ and His Church. It does happen, and when it does, we have to be accountable and maybe even face the consequences.

So, that's all I'm referring to. Otherwise, we're in basic agreement it sounds like.

 

[Fervent]

I agree as long as it's remembered that teaching does not equate to preaching. It mainly occurs through behaviour, showing love and forgiveness in the way you live your life, as Jesus demonstrated throughout His - He did very little preaching but showed much compassion and loving kindness in His actions.

Most of what Jesus did was preaching. He preached in parables, He preached in calling the Pharisee's vipers and sons of Satan, He preached in sermons and sermonettes. Every word out of Jesus' mouth is preaching. Preaching isn't simply messages delivered from pulpits pointing an accusatory finger or giving advice. It is declaring the truth. The principle concern of the Christian is the declaration of the gospel, because it is in hearing that people can be saved. What do we do if we feed their body, but leave them condemned?

 

[Hmm]

Most of what Jesus did was preaching. He preached in parables, He preached in calling the Pharisee's vipers and sons of Satan, He preached in sermons and sermonettes. Every word out of Jesus' mouth is preaching. Preaching isn't simply messages delivered from pulpits pointing an accusatory finger or giving advice. It is declaring the truth. The principle concern of the Christian is the declaration of the gospel, because it is in hearing that people can be saved. What do we do if we feed their body, but leave them condemned?

If I and my family were hungry I would rather receive food from someone/anyone (in fact God's) hands than a sermon about how condemned I am unless I do X, Y or Z. Wouldn't you?

 

[Fervent]

If I and my family were hungry I would rather receive food from someone/anyone (in fact God's) hands than a sermon about how condemned I am unless I do X, Y or Z. Wouldn't you?

Man does not survive on bread alone, but by every word that comes from God.

The gospel is better than bread.

 

[Hmm]

Man does not survive on bread alone, but by every word that comes from God.

The gospel is better than bread.

It's very easy to say that on an Internet forum, not so easy to say it f2f to a starving family. Jesus' second great commandment was to love another, not to preach to one another. The best witness we can give is to to love God and love one another as Jesus Himself epitomised.

 

[Fervent]

It's very easy to say that on an Internet forum, not so easy to say it f2f to a starving family. Jesus' second great commandment was to love another, not to preach to one another. The best witness we can give is to to love God and love one another as Jesus Himself epitomised.

Yes, you are right there.

But it's not an either/or proposition. The gospel is not a set of empty words, it is the power of God himself. Peter didn't give the beggar at Beautiful silver or gold, but something far more precious. If you fill bellies but never tell them of the One who conquered death their hunger will return and they will be just as empty as ever. With the gospel they will never hunger again.

 

[Hmm]

Yes, you are right there.

But it's not an either/or proposition. The gospel is not a set of empty words, it is the power of God himself. Peter didn't give the beggar at Beautiful silver or gold, but something far more precious. If you fill bellies but never tell them of the One who conquered death their hunger will return and they will be just as empty as ever. With the gospel they will never hunger again.

They will never hunger spiritually but they may hunger physically and they do all around us. Jesus didn't spend His life in a rarified, spiritual environment like a monastery. He engaged with the poor, the hungry and the outcast. This
service element has been lacking in every church I've ever attended apart from the odd token gesture such as providing a free meal for the elderly at Christmas and this is not a good witness to the local community however good the preaching to the choir may be.

 

[Fervent]

They will never hunger spiritually but they may hunger physically and they do all around us. Jesus didn't spend His life in a rarified, spiritual environment like a monastery. He engaged with the poor, the hungry and the outcast. This
service element has been lacking in every church I've ever attended apart from the odd token gesture such as providing a free meal for the elderly at Christmas and this is not a good witness to the local community however good the preaching to the choir may be.

I agree, there needs to be more commitment to serving the needs of others. So lead the way. Serve the poor and the destitute, but do not withhold from them the gospel. Be the church that you desire to see.

 

[Hmm]

I agree, there needs to be more commitment to serving the needs of others. So lead the way. Serve the poor and the destitute, but do not withhold from them the gospel. Be the church that you desire to see.

I try, and fall short.

 

[Fervent]

I try, and fall short.

That's the best we can do. But thankfully we have a God who never falls short, but turns our failures into victories. Jesus' story didn't end in failure at the cross, but that apparent failure was made into the greatest victory ever accomplished. So feed and clothe and visit, but never neglect declaring God's goodness. In not preaching you rob them of the opportunity to know something better than their desperation.

 

[Hmm]

That's the best we can do. But thankfully we have a God who never falls short, but turns our failures into victories. Jesus' story didn't end in failure at the cross, but that apparent failure was made into the greatest victory ever accomplished. So feed and clothe and visit, but never neglect declaring God's goodness. In not preaching you rob them of the opportunity to know something better than their desperation.

Very well said.

 

[Clare73]

If I and my family were hungry I would rather receive food from someone/anyone (in fact God's) hands than a sermon about how condemned I am unless I do X, Y or Z. Wouldn't you?

If we were dying, an invitation to salvation from sin and its condemnation through faith in Christ would definitely be called for.

 

[Clare73]

It's very easy to say that on an Internet forum, not so easy to say it f2f to a starving family. Jesus' second great commandment was to love another, not to preach to one another. The best witness we can give is to to love God and love one another as Jesus Himself epitomised.

Wrong!

A necessary witness, but not necessarily the best witness.

Jesus regularly dealt with sin, which has to be dealt with.

 

[Hmm]

If we were dying, an invitation to salvation from sin and condemnation through faith in Christ would definitely be called for.

True, but if you're lonely or a refugee, an invitation to a party is also called for, as I know you'd give out anyway

 

[Clare73]

They will never hunger spiritually but they may hunger physically and they do all around us. Jesus didn't spend His life in a rarified, spiritual environment like a monastery. He engaged with the poor, the hungry and the outcast. This
service element has been lacking in every church I've ever attended apart from the odd token gesture such as providing a free meal for the elderly at Christmas and this is not a good witness to the local community however good the preaching to the choir may be.

We now fund our government to provide most of this, which can be done on a larger scale and more consistent basis.

Private citizens are left with those who fall in the cracks.

 

[Hmm]

We now fund our government to provide most of this.

That is something I agree but you can't contract out things like befriending the widow/widower - that has to be done out of love. I wouldn't want someone befriending me if I knew they were being paid by the hour!