Biden Drops the Hammer on Unvaccinated

[Hans Blaster]

What's funny about this is that multiple pro-vaccine people have indicated they've had Covid (some more than once) including after the vaccine. I, on the other hand, have never had Covid (and have a negative antibody test to prove it).

I'm not one of those spreading the virus to the community. That would be some of your fellow pro-vaccine posters who have been a vector in spread.

Since were apparently doing data by anecdote...

I know a few people (actually 2 households) that have had COVID among the people I know. In both cases it was *before* vaccines were available (last fall). NO ONE that I know has gotten COVID after being vaccinated. (And the one person I know who recently had a scare and got tested, was not COVID infected.)

 

[Hans Blaster]

So if nurses quit and you or a family member needs a hospital bed? Too bad?

Libertarianism is a cold and selfish philosophy.

 

[Aldebaran]

Since were apparently doing data by anecdote...

I know a few people (actually 2 households) that have had COVID among the people I know. In both cases it was *before* vaccines were available (last fall). NO ONE that I know has gotten COVID after being vaccinated. (And the one person I know who recently had a scare and got tested, was not COVID infected.)

Do you know Rev. Jesse Jackson or his wife? They both got Covid and ended up hospitalized even though fully vaxxed.
Here are several thousand more: CDC: 4,115 Fully Vaccinated Have Been Hospitalized Or Died With Breakthrough Covid-19 Infections

 

[WaterWing]

Covid Live Updates: Biden Unveils Vaccine Mandate Plan Covering Two-Thirds of U.S. Workers

The only place Biden could drop a hammer is on his own foot

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Obviously I'd like to see this approach encourage people to protect themselves, but in a pragmatic/practical sense, I don't know how effective it'll end up being.

Especially with a health topic that's become so politically polarized, that a republican can win brownie points among their electorate simply by virtue of opposing a health mandate.

Health related mandates have a better chance of working when they're not on a topic with a stark political division.

For instance, if you look at the history of smoking regulations and smoking restrictions...

The government tried the carrot for years to get people to stop smoking, and eventually had to use the stick. When "the stick" was used in that scenario there were government mandated indoor smoking bans, public and private entities started enforcing tobacco-free measures as stipulations of employment, etc...

The difference was, there were a substantial number of people on both sides who recognized cigarettes as a bad thing so it wasn't "politically controversial"


However, with regards to covid...I'm willing to meet in the middle here.

One of the main gripes among people who want to resist vaccination is "what about natural immunity?"

I'm okay with that...while I think the data clearly demonstrates that even someone who was naturally infected has even better protection with a vaccine (which is why I still got vaccinated despite having natural antibodies).

I'd be willing to say "a person who's willing to go get an antibody test, and provide a positive result should be exempted"...they could protect themselves more, but I think a prior infection does offer at least the requisite amount of protection that would prevent them from bogging down the hospital system...so sure, make that an exempting factor.


However, I was surprised (well, not really ) when I talked to a few people who are anti-vaccine about that, and they seemed to reject that idea as well. "It's none of their business whether I've had it or not" was the feedback I got from two people I discussed it with.



Here's a "meet in the middle" compromise idea...

Many in the far right camp claim to be uber-concerned about migrants coming across the border with covid, as well as pushing for voter id.

We'll do the voter-id thing, but make vaccination/antibody+ verification part of the requirements for entering a polling location.

Sound like a plan?

 

[Albion]

Yeah, your position seems more reasonable when you strawman everything into its most extreme form.

 

[Albion]

For instance, if you look at the history of smoking regulations and smoking restrictions...

The government tried the carrot for years to get people to stop smoking, and eventually had to use the stick. When "the stick" was used in that scenario there were government mandated indoor smoking bans, public and private entities started enforcing tobacco-free measures as stipulations of employment, etc...

However, the smoking thing was about not ingesting things that could make you die. The Covid thing isn't that, however. It is about making you inject unapproved medicines into your blood stream and do it repeatedly. I assume you can see the difference.

However, with regards to covid...I'm willing to meet in the middle here.
............................
I'd be willing to say "a person who's willing to go get an antibody test, and provide a positive result should be exempted"...

All right, but that has been explicitly omitted from the demands of the current occupant of the White House. At least at last report. Of course, we cannot be sure, from day to day, whether what the guy said yesterday still holds for today.

Here's a "meet in the middle" compromise idea...

Many in the far right camp claim to be uber-concerned about migrants coming across the border with covid, as well as pushing for voter id.

How shocking. Really "far right" stuff to think that if we citizens of this country need to be tested and injected and masked, that it would make sense that unknown people from countries with far weaker health records should not just be invited to walk across the border--or better yet, flown in at our expense--whether infected and contagious or not. Yeah, really extremist stuff, that sort of caution.

The administration and its loyalists talk about how reasonable it is to take precautions, but then they disregard their own claims and reasoning both as individuals and with regard to public policy. How is that to be explained?

We'll do the voter-id thing, but make vaccination/antibody+ verification part of the requirements for entering a polling location.

Sound like a plan?

Sure, but the Democrats in elective office at the federal and state levels have made it clear that they have no intention of allowing any system by which election officials might have at least a modest chance of discerning if the voter is who he says he is!

When all of that changes, let's talk about your plan. In the meantime, it may be reasonable but the people who matter aren't in a compromising mood like you are.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Do you know Rev. Jesse Jackson or his wife? They both got Covid and ended up hospitalized even though fully vaxxed.
Here are several thousand more: CDC: 4,115 Fully Vaccinated Have Been Hospitalized Or Died With Breakthrough Covid-19 Infections

No. Why would you think I know Jesse Jackson? I try to avoid pastors anyway. (I said *people I know*, not *people I've heard of*.)

 

[Albion]

No. Why would you think I know Jesse Jackson? I try to avoid pastors anyway. (I said *people I know*, not *people I've heard of*.)

The question obviously was asking if you are familiar with Jesse Jackson, not whether or not you are his close friend.

 

[Hans Blaster]

However, the smoking thing was about not ingesting things that could make you die. The Covid thing isn't that, however. It is about making you inject unapproved medicines into your blood stream and do it repeatedly. I assume you can see the difference.

Umm, been in a coma? Hiking the Appalachian trail? Recently returned from a Tibetan retreat?

FDA Approves First COVID-19 Vaccine

Welcome to September.

Plus, I wouldn't call twice "repeatedly", nor am I certain that vaccines are technically "medicine".

 

[Ana the Ist]

Unless of course you've got money which you can pay for private care.

Right.

 

[Aldebaran]

No. Why would you think I know Jesse Jackson? I try to avoid pastors anyway. (I said *people I know*, not *people I've heard of*.)

Well, now you've heard of several thousand people who were fully vaccinated and are now hospitalized or dead.
"Safe and effective!"

 

[iluvatar5150]

Libertarianism is a cold and selfish philosophy.

It’s not just a cold and selfish philosophy, it’s one that fails to solve any problems because it pigheadedly denies the complex realities of life for the sake of propping up some oddball ideals.

Do you know Rev. Jesse Jackson or his wife? They both got Covid and ended up hospitalized even though fully vaxxed.
Here are several thousand more: CDC: 4,115 Fully Vaccinated Have Been Hospitalized Or Died With Breakthrough Covid-19 Infections

He was fully vaxxed, but she was not.
Reverend Jesse Jackson transferred to rehab facility, wife moved to ICU after COVID-19 hospitalizations

 

[mark46]

Congrats. Many of you refuse to accept the conclusions of the CDC and FDA, or the courts. You also seem to want a different kind of government than we have, one with much weaker federal responsibilities and powers.

Vaccines have been mandated since the 18th Century in the US and mandates have been supported by the Supreme Court.

The U.S. Has A Long Precedent For Vaccine Mandates : NPR

1) It is also the right of any employer to have vaccinations as a requirement for employment. That includes the federal government and specifically the military.

2) It is also the right of federal government to require those receiving Medicare monies to have their employees vaccinated.

I DISAGREE with the federal government. I think allowing weekly testing at large companies is insufficient. I guess that this OSHA regulation will be strengthened if necessary.

Also, BIDEN should have put have required vaccination for travel on buses, trains and planes, and required that all who have any direct contact with the public be vaccinated.
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ANOTHER ISSUE FOR CUSTOMERS
Businesses have the right to discriminate against the unvaccinated, and not allow them into their establishments.
===========
The idea that the government cannot regulate behavior or make regulations limiting private businesses are long settled issues in the US. Railroad companies were forced to stop uses the coupling mechanisms for cars that they were using. Vaccinations have been mandated for centuries (I think back to the 18th century).

 

[NxNW]

Looks like a slippery slope to banning smoking, drinking and overeating.

Those are predictable figures, and don't overwhelm the hospitals.

Tell the unborn child that.

It's not a child; It's an embryo that's incapable of thought or sensory input.

 

[NxNW]

I think you mean "But they rarely take up hospital beds from Covid according to data in the US".

Yes, I'm referring to the US.

The data definitely shows vaccine reducing hospitalizations, but not anywhere near the rates reported by the US, and certainly not enough to say the vaccinated "rarely" take up hospital beds in anywhere but the US.

Or, you could be manipulating the statistics. If ten million are vaccinated and 50 are hospitalized, you could point out that all were vaccinated, but you're still leaving out important information.

 

[Aldebaran]

Congrats. Many of you refuse to accept the conclusions of the CDC and FDA, or the courts. You also seem to want a different kind of government than we have, one with much weaker federal responsibilities and powers.

We'd just prefer that the federal govt. would stick to doing what it was intended to do, which is to provide for national defense, which includes securing our borders. They can't even do that right because they're too busy trying to run everyone's lives.

 

[Aldebaran]

Those are predictable figures, and don't overwhelm the hospitals.



It's not a child; It's an embryo that's incapable of thought or sensory input.

With a heartbeat as early as 6 weeks into pregnancy.

 

[mark46]

We'd just prefer that the federal govt. would stick to doing what it was intended to do, which is to provide for national defense, which includes securing our borders. They can't even do that right because they're too busy trying to run everyone's lives.

I understand.

You want to change the nature of our republic. In this case, by a couple of hundred years, to the time before vaccine mandates. Obviously, you want to go back to before OSHA and the EPA (brought to us by a Republican president). And before SS, Medicare (part D from a Republican) and Medicaid. And certainly before civil rights and voting rights. And while we're at it, let's stop having a federal government fund the highway system as it has done for so many decades.

Most importantly, you wish to roll back the country to your image of it, rather than the country that has been implemented over the centuries by our ELECTED officials in federal, state and local governments. I understand that you are not alone. There tens of millions who wish to abolish the republic as it now exists and replace it with one that has no connection to the country created by the voters (after all, elections are all rigged).

You may win. For the first time in over 150 years, the union is indeed in serious danger.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I understand. You want to change the nature of our republic. In this case, by a couple of hundred years, to the time before vaccine mandates. Obviously, you want to go back to before OSHA and the EPA (brought to us by a Republican president). And before SS, Medicare (part D from a Republican) and Medicaid. And certainly before civil rights and voting rights.

Let's not pretend this is anything other than Biden trying to put one in the W column.

He created a disaster on the border.

He's still struggling to pass a spending bill, largely because his fiscal policy of printing money is driving inflation.

He completely dropped the ball on the Afghanistan exit, despite having 7 months to prepare.

Covid has been running rampant.

He took away people's freedom so that by the end of the year, he gets to claim a win.

The only good thing I can say about him is he isn't Kamala Harris.