20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

[Timtofly]

Where is the millennium called "the Lord's Day"?

That was your home work. You point out all the "1000's" in Scripture. Why not point out all the "Lord's Day" and "Day of the Lord" passages?

 

[Timtofly]

I have no clue what you mean by a millennial kingdom? There is no such thing. There is only one kingdom, the everlasting kingdom. Currently it is unseen, but once Christ returns it will literally physically materialize. To deny the latter is ludicrous, as if the kingdom is going to continue in the same manner it is now, once Christ returns. If there is a thousand years after the 2nd coming, that does not equal a millennial kingdom, that equals the first thousand years of the everlasting kingdom.

Not an everlasting kingdom ever on earth. This is just the reign to subjugate death as the final enemy. Most fail to realize that death is introduced in the 4th Seal. Not Adam's rebellion on all mankind for the last 5991, that would be sheol. This control over Death is to remove rebellion directly pointed at God. Not the sin nature given to Adam's descendants. Adam's family did not know God except on God's terms and by faith. The Millennium is dealing directly with God for 1000 years.

The everlasting kingdom has been Paradise for the 6000 years since the Lord's Day in Genesis 2. Only Enoch enjoyed Paradise up until Moses. Many deny that Moses has, yet both Moses and Elijah appear as part of the Transfiguration event. Jesus was showing the firstfruits of the church what these 2 witnesses had already experienced. Paradise will come down as the New Jerusalem. That is the everlasting kingdom. The tribulation is the harvest of the Millennial Kingdom on earth, and these firstfruits are people who stay on earth for 1000 years, and remain on the New Earth.

 

[jgr]

20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

 

[Timtofly]

He taught Amil, so that's definitely not true. He taught that dead believers will be resurrected and together with those who are alive will be caught up to Christ when He returns and he also taught that all unbelievers will be killed at that time (see 1 Cor 15:22-23, 1 Cor 15:50-54, 1 Thess 4:14-5:6, 2 Thess 1:7-10). That doesn't leave any mortals to populate the earth for a supposed earthly millennial kingdom.

Paul taught that Revelation was a book of recaps? Paul taught the Second Coming had already happened? Paul taught the 7th Trumpet had sounded and all the kingdoms on earth were now controlled by Christ personally? Paul taught that all of Adam's flesh and blood were now destroyed, and all on earth had incorruptible bodies because sin and death were defeated? Paul taught that Satan was bound? Paul warned that any rebellion would be dealt with with fire from heaven? Paul taught that Jerusalem would be the throne and Temple of Christ for the next 1000 years and that all would reign with Christ in perfect harmony?

Paul taught that 1000 really means the next 2000 years?

 

[Timtofly]

Premil denies the tremendous impact that Christ's death had on Satan.

What did Satan have that was taken away?

 

[Timtofly]

Matthew 25:31-46 forbids your error.

(1) Matthew 25:31-46 is referring to the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.
(2) Christ is coming in final and majestic glory to execute judgment.
(3) The Lord only encounters two types of people when He returns.
(4) These are both judged at His appearing.
(5) One group is portrayed as righteous and is the subject of blessing and reward.
(6) The other group is portrayed as wicked and is the subject of God’s wrath and punished.
(7) They are before the exact same throne at the exact same time.
(8) There is no gap of time in-between the judgment of the righteous and the judgment of the wicked.
(9) The good receive eternal life.
(10) The bad obtain eternal punishment.
(11) There is absolutely no mention of, or allowance made for, a third group.

What happens to the righteous when Jesus appears? What happens to the wicked when He appears? In Matthew 25:33 Christ (the king) sets “the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.” He then sentences them, and eternally separates them. The sheep are the believers, the goats are the unbelievers. Jesus confirms this in this final sentencing of all mankind in Matthew 25:34, 41&46, declaring: “Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world … then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels … and these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”

The terms “the sheep,” “them on his right hand,” “ye blessed” and “the righteous” are seen to be synonymous in this parable. The wicked on the other hand are simply deemed “the goats,” “them on the left hand” or “ye cursed.” The righteous are seen in Matthew 25:31-45 to “inherit the kingdom” and “life eternal” whereas the wicked are cast “into everlasting fire” and receive “everlasting punishment” (Matthew 25:46). The designations and sentences can only relate to the saved and the unsaved. They could not be clearer. There are no exceptions or other groups additional to these two diametrically opposing groupings.

This is the final separation of the wicked from the redeemed of God. It is the climactic assignment of eternal destinies. All mankind is found embodied in one of these two unique groupings. There are no ‘nearly saved or ‘semi-saved’ people or ‘nearly lost’ or ‘semi-lost’ people on this day. One is either clothed with Christ’s robes of righteousness or eternally saved or he is He is clothed with his own filthy rags of righteousness and eternally lost. No one inherits the kingdom through national identity.

When we examine the judicial sentences which are met out to the sheep and the goats when Jesus returns (in Matthew 25) we see two diametrically opposing verdicts and outcomes. This shows us that they relate to two diametrically opposing peoples. First we learn that the sheep are placed on Christ’s right hand, the goats are then put on His left hand. Matthew 25 tells us that the sheep are “blessed” (in fact Jesus describes them as “ye blessed of my Father”), and are rewarded for their faithfulness to the Lord by being ushered into eternal bliss. This cannot in any way refer to the unregenerate. The goats on the other hand are “cursed.” This condemnation can only apply to the wicked.

This interpretation is based on a works salvation. Their works alone saved them. Not just literally but symbolically. They did not even know God. They just lived moral lives and are now seen as being self righteous. Is this really about Salvation and entering into Christ's Atonement through faith? These people were not even physically dead yet. They will be alive on earth from all nations. They will be brought to Jerusalem to stand before Christ on His glorious throne. This is not about God and the GWT. That has already been set up since the beginning of creation. The GWT will be seen at the Second Coming. It has not been in Jerusalem this whole time.

 

[Guojing]

This interpretation is based on a works salvation. Their works alone saved them. Not just literally but symbolically. They did not even know God. They just lived moral lives and are now seen as being self righteous. Is this really about Salvation and entering into Christ's Atonement through faith? These people were not even physically dead yet. They will be alive on earth from all nations. They will be brought to Jerusalem to stand before Christ on His glorious throne. This is not about God and the GWT. That has already been set up since the beginning of creation. The GWT will be seen at the Second Coming. It has not been in Jerusalem this whole time.

If you see the sequence of events described in Rev 20, the GWT judgement is after the 1000 year reign.

But Christ 2nd coming ushers in the 1000 year reign.

 

[sovereigngrace]

This interpretation is based on a works salvation. Their works alone saved them. Not just literally but symbolically. They did not even know God. They just lived moral lives and are now seen as being self righteous. Is this really about Salvation and entering into Christ's Atonement through faith? These people were not even physically dead yet. They will be alive on earth from all nations. They will be brought to Jerusalem to stand before Christ on His glorious throne. This is not about God and the GWT. That has already been set up since the beginning of creation. The GWT will be seen at the Second Coming. It has not been in Jerusalem this whole time.

It would be good if you actually addressed the points people are writing instead of constantly skipping around them and diverting the topic. Avoidance actually adds weight to the argument of the other poster. It sends out a signal that you have no answer to the points they are making. My last post actually rebuts everything you are saying here. Please re-read it and let the Scriptures speak for itself. It is talking about the fruit of salvation - love.

Any way, there is only one throne and one judgment. Premil somehow extrapolates two distinct physical future resurrection days (the first for the righteous, the second for the wicked) separated by a literal 1000 years+ out of Rev 20. Where in Scripture does it even mention "resurrection days" (plural), pertaining to the end? Nowhere! What Scripture (including Revelation 20) teaches there are two distinct future judgement days (that will see all mankind stand before Christ to give account for their lives) separated by a literal 1000 years+? Where in Scripture does it mention "judgement days" (plural), in regard to the end? What Scripture corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that Satan will be bound for a time-span of 1000 years after the Second Advent, then released for a "little season" to deceive the nations, and then destroy them? There is no other Scripture that teaches this doctrine. Premils force that upon the sacred text.

 

[ShineyDays2]

You are missing the point the end comes after the Second Coming, not at the Second Coming. The Second Coming brings Christ to earth to set up His glorious throne in a temple in Jerusalem.

Sorry Tim, because NONE of the verses in 1 Corinthians support anything in your indoctrinated theory. Below are ALL verses in 1 Corinthians that even "hint" of the last days are listed.

(The blue highlighted verses do not indicate even "suggest" a literal 1,000 year millennium, a third temple where a glorified Christ returns to a sin-cursed earth to do a re-do of his first and only coming before the end of this age.)

***************************************************************************​

1Cor 1:7-8...so that you are not lacking in any spiritual gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ; who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Cor 3:13-15...each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done...If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward...If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

1Cor 4:5 - Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then every man will receive his commendation from God.

1Cor 5:5...you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1Cor 10:11...Now these things happened to them as a warning, but they were written down for our instruction, upon whom the end of the ages has come.

1Cor 11:32...But when we are judged by the Lord, we are chastened so that we may not be condemned along with the world.

1Cor 15:16-17...For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised. If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins....(vs. 21-26) For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For [Jesus] must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. (compare 1 Cor 15:54)

1Cor 15:27-28..."For God has put all things in subjection under [Jesus'] feet." But when it says, "All things are put in subjection under [Jesus]," it is plain that [God] is excepted who put all things under [Jesus]. When all things are subjected to [God], then the Son himself will also be subjected to [God] who put all things under him, that God may be everything to every one.

1Cor 15:51-54...Lo! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

2Cor 1:13-14...For we write you nothing but what you can read and understand; I hope you will understand fully, as you have understood in part, that you can be proud of us as we can be of you, on the day of the Lord Jesus.

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1Cor 10:13...No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with the temptation will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

Compare:
2Pe 1:3-9...His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, that through these [things]you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature. For this very reason make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. For if these things are yours and abound, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For whoever lacks these things is blind and shortsighted and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

So how do we avoid (escape) being tempted to do the things that are "common to man?"

Answer: By prayer, studying God's Word and living by them to the best of our ability.​

Is 1 Cor 10:13 referring to "a rapture of the church" by using the word "escape?"

Answer: NO, the text does not support that false theory made by, and vigorously promoted man/men is the early 1800's.​

 

[Douggg]

Is 1 Cor 10:13 referring to "a rapture of the church" by using the word "escape?"
Answer: NO, the text does not support that false theory made by, and vigorously promoted man/men is the early 1800's.

Who uses 1Corinthians10:13 as a rapture verse, just because the word escape appears in that verse? Seems to me you are making straw man argument against the rapture taking place before the great tribulation begins.

 

[ShineyDays2]

There was the time of the Gentiles between the Firstfruits and the Second Coming. The Covenant with Abraham goes from the Second Coming to the end.

Sorry Tim, but you must have a different Bible than I have because neither of those 2 theories are in my RSV Bible.

The birth of the "church" composed of BOTH 12 converted Jewish apostles along with thousands of converted Jews on the day of Pentecost and later thousands and thousands of Gentiles joined the new Christian movement which is extensively revealed in Ephesians.

The New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31 was fulfilled by Jesus in Matthew 26:26-29 and confirmed and referred to in other NT books. Denying the New Covenant could be the demise of many.

Let me ask you this: Do you take communion and have you been baptized? If not, how do you determine that you are in the "Body of Christ.?"


I follow scripture - not J.N. Darby of the 1800's.

 

[ShineyDays2]

Who uses 1Corinthians10:13 as a rapture verse, just because the word escape appears in that verse?

Feel free to search over 5,000 posts in this thread and let me know how many you find.

Whether or not it was 1 Cor. 10 or 2 Pe 1:4 "...by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, that through these you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature" I know the word "escape" has been used as a means of being raptured by some.

 

[Douggg]

Feel free to search over 5,000 posts in this thread and let me know how many you find.

Whether or not it was 1 Cor. 10 or 2 Pe 1:4 "...by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, that through these you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature" I know the word "escape" has been used as a means of being raptured by some.

The passage is Luke 21:34-36.

 

[ShineyDays2]

Seems to me you are making straw man argument against the rapture taking place before the great tribulation begins.

So out of 10 verses in 1 Corinthians that directly do not support any rapture, new temple, a glorified Christ returning to a sin-cursed earth doing a redo of sacrifices and remaining on earth for a thousand years in Jerusalem (the very location that he would not so much as spend one night there because it was so evil) you chose to criticize the 2 at the bottom of the list that were separated from the 10 most definitive verses that does not have even a hint of a rapture in them. (And that was only a fraction of supporting verses that could be listed.)

If you are not convinced then I truly feel sorry for you because dispensationalism is a true sign of the Antichrist. Why do I say that? It is because dispensationalism says that "Christ was a failure at his first coming" because he, supposedly did not fulfill "ALL" that the Father had given him even though He proclaimed he did! That is at the very heart of dispensationalism - which they would deny for sure. Dispensationalism says "Jesus OFFERED the Kingdom to the Jews and they refused it so God postponed it to a later time!" Heresy at best!

 

[Douggg]

So out of 10 verses in 1 Corinthians that directly do not support any rapture, new temple, a glorified Christ returning to a sin-cursed earth doing a redo of sacrifices and remaining on earth for a thousand years in Jerusalem (the very location that he would not so much as spend one night there because it was so evil) you chose to criticize the 2 at the bottom of the list that were separated from the 10 most definitive verses that does not have even a hint of a rapture in them. (And that was only a fraction of supporting verses that could be listed.)

You are the one who poised the question in your post...

"Is 1 Cor 10:13 referring to "a rapture of the church" by using the word "escape?"
Answer: NO, the text does not support that false theory made by, and vigorously promoted man/men is the early 1800's."

...so that is the passage I responded to. Luke 21:34-36 is the passage which the escape is found which pre-trib and anytime rapture view say is referring to the rapture.

Dispensationalism says "Jesus OFFERED the Kingdom to the Jews and they refused it so God postponed it to a later time!" Heresy at best!

The Jews did not refuse the Kingdom of God. They rejected Jesus as their King, and thus the Kingdom of God was taken from that generation, to be given to another generation, the nation of Israel borne in a single day.

Matthew 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

 

[ShineyDays2]

1Cor 10:13 and 2Pe 1:3-9.

In regards to using 1 Cor 10:13 and 2 Pe 1:3-9, my unintentional "mistake" was in highlighting and emphasizing those two verses that were intentionally put below the second line because they only had similarities and yet they could have been used by pre-mils/dispys to further enhance their false theory about the rapture. I did not see them as being quite as solid as those 10 that were above the second line. Sorry if that confused you because it gave you an opportunity to avoid the truth of those 10.

You are the one who poised the question in your post...

"Is 1 Cor 10:13 referring to "a rapture of the church" by using the word "escape?"
Answer: NO, the text does not support that false theory made by, and vigorously promoted man/men is the early 1800's."

...so that is the passage I responded to. Luke 21:34-36 is the passage which the escape is found which pre-trib and anytime rapture view say is referring to the rapture.

But now that you have chosen to use Luke 21:34-36 I will say that it a paragraph about "being watchful" and that we should not be weighed down with dissipation and drunkenness and cares of this life and be caught unprepared due to being preoccupied by the cares of the world. Verse 36 is, in essence, telling us to "watch what our lifestyle is like at the return of Christ and that we should be praying that the devil does not tempt us like he tempted Eve by distorting what God said. To "escape" from the wiles of the devil one should also be seeking the truth of what God says in scripture. In doing so we "escape all the things that will take place at the end of this age by being ready."

Again, I still do not support the false theory made by and vigorously promoted by a man in the early 1800's that I said below.

 

[ShineyDays2]

The Jews did not refuse the Kingdom of God. They rejected Jesus as their King, and thus the Kingdom of God was taken from that generation, to be given to another generation,

Jesus crowned King wasn't he? Now a King has a Kingdom doesn't he? Did Jesus not say "My Kingdom is not of this world." Christ rules from heaven now through the inspired word of God. We are to be guided by, live by and spread the gospel of salvation to the world until He comes at the end of the ages.

The Jews WERE the first to spread the gospel so how could it have been taken away from them. Did not Philip go to Samaria and of which thousands of mix-bred Jews were saved? In all the synagogues that the disciples preached in they were speaking of the Kingdom of God. However, later as the gospel spread Paul became the major figure for the Gentiles but did not give up on spreading the good news of salvation to the Jew when appropriate.

the nation of Israel borne in a single day.

I have no idea what you mean by this??

 

[HARK!]

MOD HAT ON

Please be nice to each other.​

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Douggg]

I have no idea what you mean by this??

I wrote...the nation of Israel borne in a single day.

What I meant was that Israel in May 14, 1948 fulfilled a part of Isaiah 66:7-8, a nation born at once.

7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

Although Israel is a nation again, the Jews (her children) corporately speaking have yet to believe in Jesus. The pain of the great tribulation has not come yet. It is during that time that the Jews will turn to Jesus.

verse 7 refers back to Isaiah 9:6 unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given. The son of course is Jesus. But verse 7 indicates the son is born before Zion's pain came.

verse 8 Zion bringing forth her children - a way of saying the Jews will be delivered when they turn to Jesus during the great tribulation, near its beginning - "for as soon as Zion travailed".

 

[Douggg]

But now that you have chosen to use Luke 21:34-36 I will say that it a paragraph about "being watchful" and that we should not be weighed down with dissipation and drunkenness and cares of this life and be caught unprepared due to being preoccupied by the cares of the world. Verse 36 is, in essence, telling us to "watch what our lifestyle is like at the return of Christ and that we should be praying that the devil does not tempt us like he tempted Eve by distorting what God said. To "escape" from the wiles of the devil one should also be seeking the truth of what God says in scripture. In doing so we "escape all the things that will take place at the end of this age by being ready."

Jesus instructions to watch and be praying - showing that we believe in Him - in Luke 21:34-36 carries the same instructions Jesus gave in Matthew 24:32-51.

In Matthew 24:32-51, we have the parable of the fig tree generation - when the rapture will take place, the season. And also a repeat of Luke 21:34-36, to watch, for we know not exactly what day our Lord comes - to escape going to the great tribulation.

Differently, in Matthew 24:15-31 is Jesus's instructions to the Jews, who will end up going through the great tribulation. For them, who are living in Judea at the time is to flee to the mountains to survive.