The Warped World of Incel Extremists

[Jamdoc]

It really is just sour grapes copium.
and I really dislike it because it devalues women and says that something created by God to be a good thing and an expression of love and intimacy and calls it bad.
Nothing God created is bad, we just ruin the good that God created.

 

[Larniavc]

I tell them I don't date my friends.

Apropos of nothing but my wife was my friend for many years before we got together.

 

[bèlla]

Apropos of nothing but my wife was my friend for many years before we got together.

I'm glad it worked out for you.

I never get comments on that except when speaking to Christians. Maybe its more common.

 

[RDKirk]

I'm glad it worked out for you.

I never get comments on that except when speaking to Christians. Maybe its more common.

Perhaps also gender?

I think most men can flip a woman he knows from "friend" to "possible love interest" in the blink of an eye. Our "friendzone" line is drawn in sand.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

Are they outcasts? Only a small number of people look like Hollywood stars, does that mean the rest of us should feel embittered about it? To think of incels as outcasts suggests there is some external reason for their general anger about not having women chasing after them. The real problem is internal.

The fact that incels are usually bullied, made fun of, and the like...yes, they are usually outcasts. However, yes I do agree that the problem is internal but is made worse by external stimuli. I've not come across a case of one who went off the deep end who was generally well-liked and included in things and had good influences but just didn't have luck with finding a partner and decided to make it the world's problem.

 

[bèlla]

It really is just sour grapes copium.
and I really dislike it because it devalues women and says that something created by God to be a good thing and an expression of love and intimacy and calls it bad.
Nothing God created is bad, we just ruin the good that God created.

When the foundation is faulty the building is shaky. That manifests differently for each. I've heard enough in my time here to say something's off. The foundation was ill-laid for the subject. That's why there's so much discontent and sadness.

 

[RDKirk]

The fact that incels are usually bullied, made fun of, and the like...yes, they are usually outcasts. However, yes I do agree that the problem is internal but is made worse by external stimuli. I've not come across a case of one who went off the deep end who was generally well-liked and included in things and had good influences but just didn't have luck with finding a partner and decided to make it the world's problem.

You're saying they don't get along with guys either (which I've said earlier). The nucleus of their problem, then, isn't their inability to relate to women, but their inability to relate to human beings.

 

[bèlla]

Perhaps also gender?

I think most men can flip a woman he knows from "friend" to "possible love interest" in the blink of an eye. Our "friendzone" line is drawn in sand.

There's two sides to it. Some people go that route because they're afraid of rejection. Building a connection allows them to gauge interest and make an impression. With the hope they'll give them a chance.

ETA: And some people prefer to date friends instead.

Whereas others prefer the energy and spontaneity of new connections. I'm in that group. I lead with fit not feelings. I'm not trying to get him to like me. I'm trying to ascertain compatibility. No's are a given. My no is another person's yes and vice versa.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

I imagine more homely women have less of this problem, lol.

I have found the opposite happening with me. I find it very easy to be friends with women (even good looking ones) and not develop feelings for them. Although in my case I am pretty much immune from developing feelings for a woman in a non-suffering context. I do notice a lot of women I'm friends with end up developing feelings for me, or at least making them known after a while.

I'm still capable of pure sexual lust I guess.. but as someone with a lower than average sex drive as a man.. it's not hard to abstain from those feelings with female friends too.

I grew up an only child to a single mother, which helped...but also did the harm of having a difficult time being able to develop relationships with other men. I'm in the same boat as you though. I'm able to have platonic relationships with women very easily...and if they developed feelings (I'm married now) I was always aloof to it haha.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

I agree, especially with men. A 40 year old man is not going to develop the same butterflies and feelings for a fellow 40 year old woman as easily as a 20 year man would with a fellow 20 year old woman. Less to do with "time" and more with disinterest.

Exactly, if you're 40 and on the market again...you've gone through it and have some damage

 

[spiritfilledjm]

You're saying they don't get along with guys either (which I've said earlier). The nucleus of their problem, then, isn't their inability to relate to women, but their inability to relate to human beings.

Agreed. Now, as I stated wayyyyyyy back in the beginning of the thread. What do we (society, Christians, whomever) do about it? Do we keep writing articles condemning them and men in general. I've read some articles out there where it's clear that it's coming from an area of hate and these writers would, pretty much, rather see them gathered and shot than actually get the help they need. In fact, I honestly have yet to see an article that goes through what they are going through and even gives direction on how to seek help with links that gives access to help, though I'm sure, I hope, they exist. I'm just saying that in today's society, it seems we'd rather have them punished for the thoughts that they have in their heads rather than get the help they need, looking at them as lost causes who can never be pulled back from the brink of oblivion. That, in itself, is sad.

 

[RDKirk]

Agreed. Now, as I stated wayyyyyyy back in the beginning of the thread. What do we (society, Christians, whomever) do about it? Do we keep writing articles condemning them and men in general. I've read some articles out there where it's clear that it's coming from an area of hate and these writers would, pretty much, rather see them gathered and shot than actually get the help they need. In fact, I honestly have yet to see an article that goes through what they are going through and even gives direction on how to seek help with links that gives access to help, though I'm sure, I hope, they exist. I'm just saying that in today's society, it seems we'd rather have them punished for the thoughts that they have in their heads rather than get the help they need, looking at them as lost causes who can never be pulled back from the brink of oblivion. That, in itself, is sad.

Well, if I want to help prostitutes, I know where to find them. If I want to help the homeless, I know where to find them, too.

What are your suggestions for getting incels the help they need?

 

[Tom 1]

The fact that incels are usually bullied, made fun of, and the like...yes, they are usually outcasts. However, yes I do agree that the problem is internal but is made worse by external stimuli. I've not come across a case of one who went off the deep end who was generally well-liked and included in things and had good influences but just didn't have luck with finding a partner and decided to make it the world's problem.

Perhaps you're right and bullying/humiliation is part of the equation for some people. That doesn't offer an adequate explanation for the misogyny though. As a group they seem to have an attitude that women 'should' be available for their use. While not being physically attractive might be a barrier to regular casual sex, it definitely isn't a barrier to building meaningful relationships, having a partner and so on. The whole way of thinking is warped - I'm not sure how you help that, as such. The aim isn't reasonable -if someone wants support because they recognise a need to lead a more fulfilling life, or to deal with trauma, or something of that sort, that's one thing, but support for an incel would seem to be more about somehow getting them to take on a more mature/human view of life, and their philosophy appears to be resistant to that kind of thinking.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

Perhaps you're right and bullying/humiliation is part of the equation for some people. That doesn't offer an adequate explanation for the misogyny though. As a group they seem to have an attitude that women 'should' be available for their use. While not being physically attractive might be a barrier to regular casual sex, it definitely isn't a barrier to building meaningful relationships, having a partner and so on. The whole way of thinking is warped - I'm not sure how you help that, as such. The aim isn't reasonable -if someone wants support because they recognise a need to lead a more fulfilling life, or to deal with trauma, or something of that sort, that's one thing, but support for an incel would seem to be more about somehow getting them to take on a more mature/human view of life, and their philosophy appears to be resistant to that kind of thinking.

So should society just give up on them as a whole? If that was the case, why bother trying to minister to a devout atheist, buddhist, muslim, anyone that holds true to a different philosophy?

 

[Tom 1]

So should society just give up on them as a whole?

No, I don't think so. What I'm saying is that casting them as victims is problematic. They have what could be called an attitude problem, specifically towards women, but towards life as a human more generally as well. They are fixated on things that have little meaning or importance, but those things seem to dominate their lives. Designing a therapy or support system for problematic thinking is a major challenge, it's not the same thing as supporting someone recovering from trauma or something like that. For an incel to progress he would need to be open to building normal, healthy relationships long enough to begin to see the benefits of having those kinds of relationships. With the attitudes and ideas they have that would be really difficult. How would you do it? How would you counter their thinking?

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

Agreed. Now, as I stated wayyyyyyy back in the beginning of the thread. What do we (society, Christians, whomever) do about it? Do we keep writing articles condemning them and men in general. I've read some articles out there where it's clear that it's coming from an area of hate and these writers would, pretty much, rather see them gathered and shot than actually get the help they need. In fact, I honestly have yet to see an article that goes through what they are going through and even gives direction on how to seek help with links that gives access to help, though I'm sure, I hope, they exist. I'm just saying that in today's society, it seems we'd rather have them punished for the thoughts that they have in their heads rather than get the help they need, looking at them as lost causes who can never be pulled back from the brink of oblivion. That, in itself, is sad.

I understand where you are coming from. The main problem with all this incel stuff, though, is PRIDE.

Instead of Successful Flesh, incels have Loser Flesh. The help they want is to remain in the flesh, with a VIP upgrade. God doesn't offer help for that.

 

[bèlla]

Instead of Successful Flesh, incels have Loser Flesh. The help they want is to remain in the flesh, with a VIP upgrade.

You nailed it!

 

[Sparagmos]

You could probably say I'm affection starved.

. Do you crave affection from men and women, or just women?

Sometimes I'd see a woman complaining about back pain, and one of her female co-workers would actually massage that area of the back. Then I thought, "They didn't think to ask me?" But...maybe it'd be considered weird if a man volunteered to massage the crimp in her back...at work.

. Do you also wish you could massage the men at work?

Any you say "maybe" it would be considered weird. Is it possible you’re choosing to ignore social norms which clearly identify this as a common form of sexual harassment/ unwanted from women?

I saw another woman offer a woman co-worker a hug when she was feeling down. I thought about chiming in in "I could use a hug, too!" Then realized the double standard that it would be weird if a man did it.

The fact she was married wasn't really relevant, I think she was behaving motheringly, could have been any woman...but my point was it's been a long time since I've been shown affection by a woman and sometimes that's all it takes to really make an impact. But at the same time, teased me in a sense....which can lead to more frustration.

. Do you hug other men at work? Do you want to? It sounds like you’re looking to use women’s platonic affections to satisfy a non-platonic craving for affection. That sure sounds like objectification to me.

 

[bèlla]

When you support removing a woman’s right to choose a suitor you’re dealing with a bigger issue. A man may lament his singleness. But he wouldn’t violate someone’s will to resolve it or advocate measures that would.

They want women to become chattel. Another man’s property.

 

[MehGuy]

I’m the opposite. I find make up unattractive. My wife never wears make up and she looks great.

Nice. I will say that wearing a lot of makeup frequently probably ruins the skin long term.. clogging up pores and whatnot.

On an unrelated note I love your avatar.

Thanks. The last person to comment on my avatar was over the top nasty towards me, lol. Which sadly I predicted would happen. I've witnessed other B&B fans receive this. Really though.. on the surface level the show is pretty dumb but on a deeper level it contains a lot of clever and subtle social commentary, and has a very human element behind it. Much like Mike Judge's other work. The show deserves more props than it receives.

I am excited about the show being revived (again). While the last revival was not as good as the original run, it still contained some decent episodes. Just hope the new revival goes back to the more dry style B&B originally had. Also they need to do something about Beavis's new voice.. It's not sounding right anymore.. lol.