The Warped World of Incel Extremists

[ThisIsMe123]

Just because I'm friends with someone doesn't mean their friends will like me or want to make my acquaintance. I'd never assume that.

Right, I have to apologize then...because I live in an area where most people are married for, and if there single (legally) they are in relationships. Unattached women in my area (that have their teeth intact) are few and far between.

 

[ThisIsMe123]

Everyone isn't a matchmaker. Some people enjoy it. Others don't. Especially if it causes problems in their friendship. I wouldn't recommend someone unless I knew their character and circumstances.

yeah, I typically stopped asking people to introduce me to their friends long ago when I would find out they have no available friends or simply don't know unattached friends they could introduce me to...or...they just didn't feel comfortable playing matchmaker regardless.

And I don't feel comfortable to asking them to do so.

 

[ThisIsMe123]

it is kind of sad though, that there's no way to approach a woman without it being creepy/weird. In the old days, our parents met their partners cold turkey.

My dad approached my mom, a total stranger, on the beach. Today, you'd get the brush off or there's an automatic creepy vibe the moment you approach them. So men don't approach.

I guess it's all about when is the right time to approach.

 

[Larniavc]

If you really want to be realistic, if social change is not an option, forced castration, warfare to kill off males, abortions of male fetuses, or maybe eventually genetic modification.

Or to teach young men how not to be so self entitled and useless at communicating people.

 

[bèlla]

yeah, I typically stopped asking people to introduce me to their friends long ago when I would find out they have no available friends or simply don't know unattached friends they could introduce me to...or...they just didn't feel comfortable playing matchmaker regardless.

And I don't feel comfortable to asking them to do so.

Back in the day that wasn't orchestrated by friends. Adults did the matchmaking. If you're in the same circles access is easier. But you weren't expected to setup your friends. There's an underlying issue too. If you've never struggled to make friends or meet the opposite sex you don't see the problem. It's not on your radar.

 

[Nithavela]

Is prostitution legal in Germany?

Yes.

 

[Jamdoc]

It isn't if you've been online for the length of time I have. Keep in mind, I had a large group of friends. I have a lot to draw from. Online relationships should be a red flag for most. If they can't talk outside of the Internet there's a reason. Reference this thread for insight.

The leap wasn't my suggestion of marriage. It was their willingness to present themselves to someone who said they weren't looking. The person may be taken, getting to know someone, just out a relationship, too busy, not ready, etc. To do so in light of their disinterest means you're playing the numbers, copying and pasting, or think you have a shot.

The Internet doesn't set aside the laws of propriety. If you wouldn't introduce yourself to another with that statement in person. Why would do the same at a distance? The distinction is important. It sheds light on their character and circumstances. Overfamiliarity is a faux pas. There's a cadence to relating.

This is the person I mentioned to @sampa. See the difference? This is a normal hello.

Dear X,


Thanks much for your insightful comment on my post. It led me to peek at your profile, which has, in turn, piqued my interest. I thoroughly understood your sentiments about X, particularly X as I know the country well and have considered often returning to it to live. I have friends and family in that green land.


I was drawn to your photo as well. Is it you? Is it an aspirational image?


Again, thank you for your note.
Sincerely yours,
X

To his credit he played this well. I commented on his thread and he thanked me for my feedback (and everyone else too). He used it as a lead-in. There wasn't a lot of interaction but I had a reference point. He has a strong profile too.

well I mean I was just wondering how you came to that conclusion about them cause while I get that you weren't looking for a relationship on there, so any "candidates" seeking that would kind of seem irritating but, I didn't see anything in the posts that suggested they were married and cheating, so I was just confused.
I don't do online dating though, I had a couple bad things happen with distance relationships even when I had started them in person so I've basically just decided the internet is no place for that, not for me anyway, I'm happy that others have found love with it I suppose.

 

[Jamdoc]

Life brings challenges we don't expect. No one avoids it. How we handle them is the difference. We may not like our circumstances but we can't unleash our anger on innocent people. That's wrong.

MGTOW's spend a lot of time discussing women for people who've gone their own way. Some incels want relationships and others don't. The majority want sex and power.

Yeah I'm not entirely sure how sincere MGTOW's are, which is why I consider it sour grapes. I think they still want a relationship, but just pretend not to want it as a coping mechanism.
as ugly as it can be when they spout off with their hot takes about women being property or even cheering on the Taliban that I've seen online from them, I don't see them to be quite so dangerous like some of the "incels".
Having a low opinion of women and pretending not to want them... ugly hot takes.. but nobody's physically gotten hurt.
Having low opinions of women and then feeling entitled to one and being angry about it, now that's a dangerous man.

 

[bèlla]

it is kind of sad though, that there's no way to approach a woman without it being creepy/weird. In the old days, our parents met their partners cold turkey.

It's only creepy/weird if she's not attracted. If he is you make allowances.

I guess it's all about when is the right time to approach.

Sometimes yes. Most times no. We've been swiping for years. First impressions are the original swipe. That's why churches were viable options for meeting. You had an opportunity to interact beyond that.

Some tried to even the stakes through the Internet. Discussions provided an opportunity to move beyond the superficial. In the early days you didn't know how they looked. You were judging their character.

Dating sites destroyed it. Now you cut to chase. You don't have to spend time talking to someone you'd probably turn down. You know what you're getting upfront.

The 80/20 rewards 3 things: wealth, beauty, and lifestyle. They get the most engagement. That's where we are.

 

[Jamdoc]

It's only creepy/weird if she's not attracted. If he is you make allowances.

That is a horrible truth, I mean that's how things seem to operate.. but it is horrible all the same.
the line between "sexual harassment" or not is sometimes just if he was handsome or not.
I'd think that.. on a first approach it wouldn't be sexual harassment just a rejection, and becoming sexual harassment if they persist after being refused, but sometimes it's considered harassment on the first approach now, making men kind of hesitant to even approach people as a result. Because it's more than a rejection, it can get them made social pariahs now, if not cost them a job.

 

[bèlla]

well I mean I was just wondering how you came to that conclusion about them cause while I get that you weren't looking for a relationship on there, so any "candidates" seeking that would kind of seem irritating but, I didn't see anything in the posts that suggested they were married and cheating, so I was just confused.

I'm happy to elaborate.

Single people have specific behaviors that differ from a married person or someone living with another. The number one thing you have on your side is time. That doesn't mean you aren't busy. The responsibilities aren't the same.

If you're a single man living alone looking for companionship you have no one to answer to. An online only scenario implies your unwillingness to move beyond this realm with the opposite sex. You limit your interactions to a computer. Why would you do that if you wanted a partner? That's very limiting.

Men are visual. Someone unwilling to speak on the phone or get on Skype should raise alarms. Men usually want to verify they're talking to a woman. For personal reasons and catfishing.

Single people have more flexibility. If they only converse during certain periods—you don't hear from them otherwise. Or they're content exchanging messages and never mention more, you should have some questions. Where is this going?

When a person tries to keep a connection digital, it's usually for a few reasons. Most of them are bad.

• Married or living with someone
• "It's complicated" i.e., I'm with someone
  
• Don't resemble the image they've shared—i.e. fake
  
• No longer resemble the image—older; gained weight
• Created a false personality or lifestyle
  
• Have challenges that minimize their options they're hiding or downplaying
• Playing the emotional card to compel you to ignore red flags
  
• You're conversing with the same sex
• They have no intention of making it real

A lot of people have been burned and learned from it. Due diligence is a must. Everyone who says they're looking for a partner isn't seeking your idea of companionship. When a person finds what they want to try to secure it. They're not sitting on their hands.

 

[bèlla]

Yeah I'm not entirely sure how sincere MGTOW's are, which is why I consider it sour grapes. I think they still want a relationship, but just pretend not to want it as a coping mechanism.

I agree. Their conversation is dominated with the opposite sex. I've known a few and they're obsessed with the subject.

Having low opinions of women and then feeling entitled to one and being angry about it, now that's a dangerous man.

Exactly.

 

[bèlla]

That is a horrible truth, I mean that's how things seem to operate.. but it is horrible all the same.

I think it's a combination of non attraction and social awkwardness. The latter may give off the same but they aren't. They don't know how to present themselves in a manner that's appealing and acceptable.

I'd think that.. on a first approach it wouldn't be sexual harassment just a rejection, and becoming sexual harassment if they persist after being refused, but sometimes it's considered harassment on the first approach now, making men kind of hesitant to even approach people as a result. Because it's more than a rejection, it can get them made social pariahs now, if not cost them a job.

Harassment begins once disinterest is conveyed. When I've said no thank you and wished you well that's it. I don't want to revisit it. If he persists, I'll reiterate my stance. Most reasonable people know that's a wrap. She's not interested.

I've had men take that statement and convince themselves I'm wrong, in denial, or God wills it and continue their pursuit. I can't wrap my mind around it. I would never have him. If he can't respect my boundaries, why would I marry him?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

He means that some people are in a situation where they're single and celibate, and not really voluntarily so, but wouldn't call themselves incels.
They may be unhappy about being single, but they're not angry about it and lashing out at other people about it.

It could be that that is what he meant. Thanks for the clarification (on his behalf). I'm so used to getting jabbed and dismissed around here half the time that it's not always easy to tell if someone is criticizing me or just adding an additional, useful thought to all that has thus far been said.

So, thanks!

Yeah. I was single and [extremely] lonely too at one point in my life, but I never thought of myself, or of my outlook on life, as one that fit an 'incel' pattern. In that respect, I fully understand that one can be 'involuntarily celibate' and not an incel. My apologies if I came across earlier as seemingly expressing that those who are 'involuntaryly single' are somehow prone to being incels.....or some other such tripe. That wasn't my intention.

 

[RDKirk]

LOL....funny you mention that. Guilty as charged here. Usually this is based on mutual friends you've shared with that person and someone else.

I'd sometimes introduce myself like, "Hey, I see we went to the same high school together" or "Hey, I see you know my friend Suzie, we both went to the same college, did you?" and so on.

Typically though, this method is kind of frowned upon. I recall a woman friend of mine post on her while that she'd unfriend any guy that would try to message her friends on her friends list.

Arrange a face-to-face meeting through one of those mutual friends. Don't try to start the relationship online.

 

[RDKirk]

You know, I've done that once...she didn't even like me asking about a certain woman on her friends list. It made her thing "Crap, he's been creepin' on my friends list!"

It was cringy in unto itself. Apparently, it was a co-worker of her's or something.

Would you feel the same way if it occurred the same way in real life?

If, say, one of your friends saw at a party or other gathering that you were friends with someone he'd like to meet, would you be equally offended if he asked you to introduce him?

 

[RDKirk]

Back in the day that wasn't orchestrated by friends. Adults did the matchmaking. If you're in the same circles access is easier. But you weren't expected to setup your friends. There's an underlying issue too. If you've never struggled to make friends or meet the opposite sex you don't see the problem. It's not on your radar.

Between "back in the day" and these days of online dating, friends were very much involved in "setting up" meetings between likely candidates that they knew and thought might be compatible.

That's pretty much what being "in the same circles" means. Circles of friends predates circles of mutual interests. For instance, in my youth there might have been girls who also liked Star Trek, comic book superheroes, electro-mechanical gizmos, and science fiction literature, but I actually never met anyone else at all who was also interested in Star Trek, comic book superheroes, electro-mechanical gizmos, and science fiction literature. There was no avenue to meet people of similar interests who were beyond one's own physical spaces.

So my "circle of friends" did not overlap my "circle of interests" at all. My circle of friends were people within my physical spaces.

 

[bèlla]

So my "circle of friends" did not overlap my "circle of interests" at all. My circle of friends were people within my physical spaces.

Thanks for elaborating.

My circle of friends consists of like-minded people who share my interests. I don't have apples and oranges friendships. We have a lot in common. As a result, the single women I'm acquainted with are seeking partners who fall in that group.

 

[TheWhat?]

Or to teach young men how not to be so self entitled and useless at communicating people.

Head in the sand, why bother with reality when you can blame your problems on your scapegoat? I think it's primitive barbarism but it worked well for the Aztecs, to a point.

 

[TheWhat?]

Head in the sand, why bother with reality when you can blame your problems on your scapegoat? I think it's primitive barbarism but it worked well for the Aztecs, to a point.

At least the Aztecs didn't try to cover it up. We are so, so very messed up as a society.