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2PhiloVoid

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You're welcome! I need to look that up. I haven't heard that. Do you have a source by chance?

~bella

Oh, it's everywhere, Bèlla. And while I could simply cite his biography, you can just google "Hugh Hefner and first marriage" and see the articles that come up (the following 'cheap' article from The SUN being but one common example). Of course, there's more, but I don't want to go to tangents that take the focus off of the OP.

Hefner’s first wife CHEATED on him - a betrayal which spawned Playboy lifestyle
 
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Sif

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Wow, that's incredible. Did you discover anything the public isn't aware of? Are we taking it seriously enough in your opinion? Feel free to weigh in! :)

~bella
I am no Earth shattering discovers. The scariest thing is since these individuals act alone it can be hard to see a potential attack coming. However, in this day and age of social media with its massive growth of narcissism they (meaning incels in this case) often post online their intensions. Perhaps, such things can help identify a potential attack before it happens.

I actually do not believe society is taking the threat from incels seriously enough, along with other emerging threats (I won't mention them as that is well beyond the topic here).

The only "advice" I can give is to be situationally aware (not just of your physical surroundings but your social surroundings as well). No need for hyper vigilance, just be aware.
 
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TheWhat?

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Oh, it's everywhere, Bèlla. And while I could simply cite his biography, you can just google "Hugh Hefner and first marriage" and see the articles that come up (the following 'cheap' article from The SUN being but one common example). Of course, there's more, but I don't want to go to tangents that take the focus off of the OP.

Hefner’s first wife CHEATED on him - a betrayal which spawned Playboy lifestyle

What in the world does Hefner have to do with incels? Hefner is the furthest thing from a forced celibate I can think of.
 
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bèlla

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Oh, it's everywhere, Bèlla. And while I could simply cite his biography, you can just google "Hugh Hefner and first marriage" and see the articles that come up (the following 'cheap' article from The SUN being but one common example). Of course, there's more, but I don't want to go to tangents that take the focus off of the OP.

Hefner’s first wife CHEATED on him - a betrayal which spawned Playboy lifestyle

I wouldn't have thought to look in that direction. Thank you brother! :clap:

~bella
 
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2PhiloVoid

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What in the world does Hefner have to do with incels? Hefner is the furthest thing from a forced celibate I can think of.

Not really. It's a matter of degree in similar moral "reflux." The Incels just take it two steps further ...
 
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TheWhat?

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Not really. It's a matter of degree in similar moral "reflux." The Incels just take it two steps further ...

"Incel" is short for "involuntary celibate." Hefner built the playboy mansion.

Connect the dots for me because I'm not seeing the connection.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I wouldn't have thought to look in that direction. Thank you brother! :clap:

~bella

I'm thinking the Incels exist because they've all been looking at porn, become ingratiated with the form of the specifics they find there, can't get that exact (elusive and illusive) form, and become dark, brooding and violent in their nihilistic resentiment (ala Nietzsche) of not getting what they want the way they want it......
 
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TheWhat?

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Most of us have. If you ask me I think it's related to a number of cultural phenomena, our incarceration rate, and tragically, one of the driving forces behind our frequent mass killings.

The recipe looks something like this:
  1. Establish dominance (as a male). Reap the reward of an increased "SMV" as you call it.
  2. Humiliate and torture, sexually, especially young, impressionable males who are at a loss in this scenario -- both males and females play a part in this.
  3. This becomes a game where the prey is intentionally goaded into a compromising situation that can be used against them. Provoking killings may not be the intent, necessarily, but victims may see this as the only option to "strike back" at a certain point -- that's not to excuse the act.
  4. Secular feminism plays a part when it comes to demonizing the male sex so as to cover up the social and sexual games people are playing. It's not all feminism though. We've been criminalizing "excess" males in our culture for generations, with currently the worst incarceration rate in the world, and very easily comparable to Stalin's regime.
  5. Rinse, and repeat.


Social murder - Wikipedia

Killers of all kinds will give an account for their deeds.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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"Incel" is short for "involuntary celibate." Hefner built the playboy mansion.

Connect the dots for me because I'm not seeing the connection.

It's a matter of degree of choice with handling one's resentment about not "getting" the favored female and her affections ...

Hefner got hacked off, relinquished purposefully whatever remaining Christian notions he had and decided to 'strike out' on his own the way he wanted. Incels do the same, but at a more psychologically violently reactive level.....since some of them can't get what they want. And their frustration mounts.

Hefner, being at least moderately attractive, built an empire that in turn helped to turn the male mind of the world against contentment with the idea of fidelity in family and against spiritually qualitative relationships between men and women. It also conditioned men to force themselves for "the ideal conventions of customized sex." See the problem? It's Screwtapian in its social nature.
 
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GOD Shines Forth!

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Inside the Warped World of Incel Extremists

Jake Davison shot two women, two men and the three-year-old girl in a deadly six-minute spree.


In trying to understand what prompted a man in Plymouth, England to commit the worst mass shooting in the UK for over a decade, attention has turned to his apparent links with the incel community – an online subculture of people who describe themselves as “involuntary celibates".

Jake Davison allegedly shot his mother before a shooting spree which ended when he turned the gun on himself. His youngest victim was three years old. In the lead-up to the attacks, he compared himself to incels in YouTube videos and contributed to their forums.

He uploaded videos in which he fixated on his virginity and, in a direct reference to incel ideology, Davison's described himself as “blackpilled". This means that he believed himself too old, at 22, to find love.

What is an Incel?

Incels refuse to accept responsibility for their circumstances, instead believing their inability to attract women makes them victims of oppression. Like all groups under the umbrella of online misogyny known as the “manosphere", they subscribe to the “red pill" conspiracy theory. They believe men are the true victims of gendered oppression, that male power has been usurped, and that feminism is a front to disguise men's subjugation.

Incels essentialise this conspiracy in the idea of the “black pill". To swallow the black pill is to accept that this oppression is insurmountable. It invokes a certain hopelessness. Incels believe there is nothing they can ever do to improve their lives.

Incels believe in a genetically essentialist social hierarchy. At the apex are “chads" – hyper-athletic attractive males who women desire instinctively. Beneath them are descending classes of “betas". At the lowermost point are incels, whose innate characteristics make them unable to attract women. Height-cels say they are too short; skull and frame-cels blame their skeletal structure; wrist-cels believe their wrists are too thin; and there are many more delineations. Incels cannot accept responsibility for their lot in life, instead spinning themselves as victims of their own biology and societal oppression.

Targeting Women

Incels blame women for this hierarchy and their low place within it. The culture portrays women as irrational and emotional creatures who are blindly pursuing the biological imperatives to seek sexual satisfaction and material security through marriage.

Incels believe women select different men for these functions, marrying an inferior “beta" for financial gain whilst cheating with “chads" for sexual gratification. To incels, women pursue their interests sociopathically and will not hesitate to harm men. A society dominated by women does the same and incels see their oppression as a natural consequence of women's malicious and inhuman nature.

Nowhere is this expressed more bizarrely than the widely held incel belief in the “dogpill". This is the view that women's drive for sexual satisfaction is such that they will routinely have sex with large dogs. Absurdity is the point here. Women are portrayed as so depraved that they are undeserving of rights and bodily autonomy.

Incels call for women to be stripped of their rights and be forced to serve as state-mandated girlfriends or held in concentration camps. Incels see themselves as the sexless victims of women's nature, and call for them to be contained or controlled accordingly.

The “black pill" refers to the oppression of incels at the hands of biologically malevolent women. In various online cultures, to take the black pill is to give up hope. And in incel culture specifically, it is to give up hope of ever having sex or a genuine romantic connection. Because they believe attractiveness is genetically determined, there is no hope for incels to rise in the hierarchy. They will be forever denied sex and happiness, and are doomed to be women's victims. Nihilistic despair and dogmatic hopelessness permeates incel communities and it is from this that violence flows.

Death and Violence

Given that the alternative is to languish in unceasing oppression, incel ideology legitimises violence against practically any target. Incel forums simultaneously glorify suicide whilst justifying extreme violence against women as a noble reaction to female domination. Violence is an ideological response; a means to punish women for their perceived crimes and reclaim what has been usurped. Incel ideology is necessarily violent because there is no hope, only revenge.

For some time, the wider world has instinctively dismissed what is, admittedly, a childish ideology based on crude stereotypes and nonsensical concepts. Sadly this is no longer an option. Plymouth is not the first shooting linked to incels. Californian Elliot Rodger, a self-described “kissless virgin," killed six in 2014 as “revenge" against those who denied him sex. Incel communities venerate Rodger as a saint to this day.

In Toronto, Canada, Alek Minassian was convicted of murdering ten people with a van in 2018. He hailed Rodger online minutes prior to the attack. Recent attacks in Canada, Arizona and Germany have also been linked to incels, while a planned attack in Ohio was discovered only days before Plymouth. There are many more examples, and some are calling for the Plymouth shooting to be classified as an act of terror.

Although not obviously political, incel ideology revolves around imagined subjugation, and violence is intended to have a far-reaching social impact. Rodger hoped to “deliver a devastating blow" that would shake women to “the core of their wicked hearts". Minassian fantasised of an “incel rebellion" that would overthrow the corrupt social order and return women to their proper place.

Few incels believe this is actually feasible, but allegiance to the principle motivates violence intended to strike at the social order and harm women as a distinct class. This is why the extreme violence of the incel community should be considered terrorism.

Incel terrorism has spiked over the last decade and there is every indication this community is growing. If this most recent attack was motivated by incel ideology, it was neither the first nor likely to be the last. For all their warped concepts and ideological incoherence, incels are becoming a threat we must take seriously.

Courtesy of Raw Story

On YouTube I've seen several women discussing Red Pillism to a mostly male audience. It's the extremes of female misbehavior that presumably spawned RP, and these female YouTubers agree. There are some hard truths one can glean from RP but it becomes weird quickly when straight men are talking about giving up on women. Most of them can't give 'em up so they lick their wounds and get back in the game. I guess "incels" stew and foment.
 
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TheWhat?

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It's a matter of degree of choice with handling one's resentment about not "getting" the favored female and her affections ...

Hefner got hacked off, relinquished purposefully whatever remaining Christian notions he had and decided to 'strike out' on his own the way he wanted. Incels do the same, but at a more psychologically violently reactive level.....since some of them can't get what they want. And their frustration mounts.

Hefner, being at least moderately attractive, built an empire that in turn helped to turn the male mind of the world against contentment with the idea of fidelity in family and against spiritually qualitative relationships between men and women. It also conditioned men to force themselves for "the ideal conventions of customized sex." See the problem? It's Screwtapian in its social nature.

I don't see anything cogent in your post beyond socially manipulative rhetoric.
 
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bèlla

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I actually do not believe society is taking the threat from incels seriously enough, along with other emerging threats (I won't mention them as that is well beyond the topic here).

The only "advice" I can give is to be situationally aware (not just of your physical surroundings but your social surroundings as well). No need for hyper vigilance, just be aware.

The person I encountered had a lot of rage. Off the Richter scale anger. He was a chameleon. He was intelligent and communicated well. He fooled the men he associated with on the site. They were shocked by his behavior and tried to reason with him. But they couldn't.

He didn't threaten violence but I felt he'd put me in a trunk. He's the sort that would kidnap and enslave you. He wants to do it and acknowledges it openly. He hadn't at the time (that I saw). But I had a strong foreboding about him after his first outburst. I've never felt that way about anyone.

There are others who think like he does. He encourages them. It's unnerving to watch.

~bella
 
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bèlla

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On YouTube I've seen several women discussing Red Pillism to a mostly male audience. It's the extremes of female misbehavior that presumably spawned RP, and these female YouTubers agree. There are some hard truths one can glean from RP but it becomes weird quickly when straight men are talking about giving up on women. Most of them can't give 'em up so they lick their wounds and get back in the game. I guess "incels" stew and foment.

They're anti-feminists and supporters of male supremacy. They believe women exist for a man's use and we have no rights. For instance, they don't think a woman can be raped. You don't own your body. That rabbit hole runs deep. I've talked to a few. They're crazy.

~bella
 
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spiritfilledjm

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I don't have the answers. I encountered someone like this in the past. I saw the article earlier and decided to share it. I didn't know anything about incels then. His behavior was obsessive and unrelenting.

But he agrees with their rhetoric. He felt I didn't have a right to refuse him and became very belligerent and harassed me for weeks before leaving. I've seen him say the things the article mentioned. I didn't connect the dots at the time.

Everyone's coping mechanism isn't the same. We handle singleness differently. You may be unaware someone's struggling unless their behavior gives you a clue. But asking the question doesn't hurt.

How are you handling this? How can I help? And listen to them. It's a different world now. There's a lot of lonely people out there. Some find solace with others like themselves. But it may not be the right environment.

It doesn't mean that everyone who's unattached or been alone for a long time falls in this group. A lengthy period of rejection would take a toll on most. It's a conversation I don't see often in Christian circles. There's a lot of people dealing with that. The majority are alone in it.

~bella

Exactly. My questions were more hypothetical than anything else.

In most of these cases here, just a friend would be nice. Most seem to be lonely, introverted, and feels like nobody actually cares about them. What they need is a male friend that can encourage them, make them feel like they belong, things like that. I know it's not that easy and they do need professional help but they also need friendship, socializing, things like that. Most of them have no "friends" outside of the poison of people they meet online.

As a kid, I was relentlessly bullied and if it wasn't for the people that cared about me, took me under their wing, got me the help I needed, I know it wouldn't have ended good for me or others. Thankfully, they showed me the love of Christ.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I don't see anything cogent in your post beyond socially manipulative rhetoric.

Manipulative? How? Because I'm condensing years of research into some sound-bites that you've never heard before?

Please do me the honor of giving me the benefit of the doubt .... since you don't even know me.

Thanks!
 
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bèlla

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In most of these cases here, just a friend would be nice. Most seem to be lonely, introverted, and feels like nobody actually cares about them. What they need is a male friend that can encourage them, make them feel like they belong, things like that. I know it's not that easy and they do need professional help but they also need friendship, socializing, things like that. Most of them have no "friends" outside of the poison of people they meet online.

It has to come from men. That isn't an ideal position for a woman to be in. Her caring and kindness will be misinterpreted as interest. Maybe some male bonding is in order. Offering a safe space to talk and get things off your chest. Many could benefit from that.

As a kid, I was relentlessly bullied and if it wasn't for the people that cared about me, took me under their wing, got me the help I needed, I know it wouldn't have ended good for me or others. Thankfully, they showed me the love of Christ.

I'm glad you did. You sound levelheaded and frequently express concerns for the marginalized. That must be your gift. :)

~bella
 
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GOD Shines Forth!

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They're anti-feminists and supporters of male supremacy. They believe women exist for a man's use and we have no rights. For instance, they don't think a woman can be raped. You don't own your body. That rabbit hole runs deep. I've talked to a few. They're crazy.

~bella

Lol, I wasn't thinking of those types. Maybe I lucked out with the ones I saw, who weren't so extreme.
 
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The person I encountered had a lot of rage. Off the Richter scale anger. He was a chameleon. He was intelligent and communicated well. He fooled the men he associated with on the site. They were shocked by his behavior and tried to reason with him. But they couldn't.

He didn't threaten violence but I felt he'd put me in a trunk. He's the sort that would kidnap and enslave you. He wants to do it and acknowledges it openly. He hadn't at the time (that I saw). But I had a strong foreboding about him after his first outburst. I've never felt that way about anyone.

There are others who think like he does. He encourages them. It's unnerving to watch.

~bella
I am glad you are alright.

Evil does not advertise itself as evil. A fiend of mine said if you want to see what a monster looks like just look in the mirror. Not because you yourself are necessarily evil but because evil people look like you.

I had an encounter in my early day in college with someone who hide his rage quite well and could appear smart, charismatic and quite friendly. There were the so called 'red flags' that I, at the time, either ignored or did not see. He did try to hurt me physically. It ended very badly for him (no, I did not kill him in self defense).

The incident taught me to pay attention to 'red flags' and to understand I have to rely on myself for my own defense (no one else is responsible for that, nor should they be).
 
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bèlla

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Lol, I wasn't thinking of those types. Maybe I lucked out with the ones I saw, who weren't so extreme.

They seemed normal at first. But the more they talked the louder the alarm blared. Sometimes I want to see how far a person will go. But gosh, you've gotta draw the line somewhere. I'd stare at the screen in shock. You don't expect all that.

~knows you're laughing r/t
 
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spiritfilledjm

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It has to come from men. That isn't an ideal position for a woman to be in. Her caring and kindness will be misinterpreted as interest. Maybe some male bonding is in order. Offering a safe space to talk and get things off your chest. Many could benefit from that.



I'm glad you did. You sound levelheaded and frequently express concerns for the marginalized. That must be your gift. :)

~bella

Jesus didn't express disgust and disdain towards the outcasts of society, Christians shouldn't either :)

I always encourage everyone to follow the Billy Graham rule. He forbade anyone on his team from being alone with a woman who was not his wife or family. This is good advice for anyone. It helps maintain accountability, ensure that we are above reproach, and keeps them from the harm that can be caused by false accusations being made against them. Especially with the topic at hand, it must be someone of the same gender or else, as you pointed out, they will view it as interest.

Unfortunately, what I see so much when talking about "incels" is disdain, hatred, ridicule and the like. This does nothing but fuels their anger and resentment towards society and gives them even more reason, in their minds, to act out in violence. That attitude does no good for anyone and, for a Christian, is about as un-Christlike as one can get.
 
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