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Full FDA approval will cause acceptance

Fantine

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Some of us never did. But we trusted Hillary less.

And I have to say, Trump surprised me with how well he did, and particularly with how well he did in the face of such opposition, and in waking people up to many facts about the corruption in Government. (Not to mention that I love his thumbing the nose at mainstream media).

But I still don't entirely trust him —this is nothing new. But I support him.

I agree with what you say about waking people up to corruption in Government. It was so difficult for four years, seeing scandal after scandal after scandal get swallowed up in the news cycle because of new scandals.

To realize the layers of protection a president could provide himself with. To see an attorney general who did everything possible to quash and misrepresent the Mueller Report and continually shield his boss. To see a president who blithely ignored subpoenas and threatened his cabinet members who said they would answer subpoenas. Who charged the federal government millions upon millions to house the Secret Service agents protecting him---hundreds of thousands of dollars in golf cart rentals as the Secret Service followed him around the golf course.

I was astonished that the wheels of government seemed so helpless to stop him, much of it due to AG Barr...hopefully the lawsuits and criminal investigations in D.C. and Maryland over emoluments might bring some of it to light.

And hopefully in his wake some laws will be passed to restrict the actions of future presidents who might never be tempted to continually push the envelope as Trump did, but because "a burned citizenry fears the fire." We never had these safeguards because we never had a president who pushed the envelope to that degree of corruption.
 
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jayem

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Hydroxychloroquine, horse dewormer, and bad interpretations of the Bible?

I suppose. And don’t forget Dr. Trump’s other remedy: :oldthumbsup:

C408715A-5891-4C7A-9D6B-EBC84A6535D2.jpeg
 
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JustSomeBloke

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I read it originally. I have now reread it and I have no idea what you're complaining about here. Your statement was that all pro-vaccine pieces of dogma were being swept away; I assumed the link you provided was intended to support that point. It doesn't. Offered as a rebuttal to pro-vaccine arguments, it's misleading.

If you weren't trying to rebut a pro-vaccine argument, what were you trying to do?

I never said pro-vaccine. You totally imagined that. I said covid-authoritarian, which includes a wide range of authoritarian diktats, such as mandatory masks, mandatory injections, mandatory closure of businesses, mandatory restrictions on movement.

And I never said that the entire covid-authoritarianism had been swept away. My point was that some areas had already been challenged, and that more would probably follow. And in your initial response to me, you proved me correct in my original comment, by doing exactly what Trogdor the Burninantor accused vaccine sceptics of doing:

Exactly. As each talking point gets debunked, they'll simply try to pretend it never happened and move on to something else.

That's what you did. You ignored the issues with the most common masks, and viral loads in vaccinated people, and diverted onto a whole load of other stuff. And if more covid-authoritarian stuff is discredited, then I expect you'll do the same, until eventually there's nothing left to support the covid-authoritarian position.
 
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Mark Quayle

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I agree with what you say about waking people up to corruption in Government. It was so difficult for four years, seeing scandal after scandal after scandal get swallowed up in the news cycle because of new scandals.
That, plus the simple ignoring of blatant corruption and law breaking, that should have been brought up daily; but instead the media pushed a false narrative —known to be false— for four years.

I was astonished that the wheels of government seemed so helpless to stop him, much of it due to AG Barr...hopefully the lawsuits and criminal investigations in D.C. and Maryland over emoluments might bring some of it to light.

And hopefully in his wake some laws will be passed to restrict the actions of future presidents who might never be tempted to continually push the envelope as Trump did, but because "a burned citizenry fears the fire." We never had these safeguards because we never had a president who pushed the envelope to that degree of corruption.

Funny how those same two paragraphs could be written about Trump's opposition, but no —all we hear is the repeated crowing of those who hate Trump, "Now he's finally met his end...", etc. Frankly, I'm surprised they didn't find anything on him, but that being said, I'm astounded that people like you refuse to pursue, or even see, what is obvious, right in front of your face. I don't think I need to name names —people who know they will get away with their two-tiered system of 'justice', and flaunt the law in secret, and even in public view.

I never have liked Trump, never even trusted him, really, but some things about him I like very much, including his attempts to bring this country back to the Constitution, and a lot of other things, like his thumbing his nose (yes a very small thumb, haha) at the media and their ilk. The more he was hated, the more I liked him.
 
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grasping the after wind

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The most untrustworthy president to ever hold the office encouraged his supporters to distrust government and its agencies.

People who don't trust the FDA will still suspect it has surveillance chips, etc.

One can be skeptical of the FDA without being a conspiracy nut. Unquestioning trust is what one does when one is on a religious faith journey. It is not appropriate when considering the actions of a government agency. The FDA is not without fault nor immune from political considerations. For the FDA to not grant full approval would make the FDA look incompetent for having granted emergency approval. Not something government agencies are prone to do to themselves. Granting full approval doesn't change the effectiveness of the vaccine nor remove any side effects for those likely to encounter such side effects. The vaccine remains exactly the same as it was prior to full approval. I did not wait for some government agency to give full approval before being vaccinated. I decided to accept the expert opinion that the risk of getting Covid and having a bad outcome from it was much higher then the the risk of the vaccine having a bad outcome . At the time, the most popular scientific opinion seemed to suggest that the vaccine would provide over 90 percent protection from infection. That has turned out to be a bit incorrect but the evidence still seems to suggest that outcomes from infection for the vaccinated are less severe. So I remain satisfied that I did the correct thing in getting vaccinated. If I thought that a President that was untrustworthy was responsible for a vaccine being rushed through the process of approval, why would I not be skeptical of that approval process and those that complied with the rushing of that approval? I would expect those that were the most obsessed with disgust of Trump would be the most skeptical of the vaccines that he had caused to be fast tracked.
 
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Mark Quayle

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One can be skeptical of the FDA without being a conspiracy nut. Unquestioning trust is what one does when one is on a religious faith journey. It is not appropriate when considering the actions of a government agency. The FDA is not without fault nor immune from political considerations. For the FDA to not grant full approval would make the FDA look incompetent for having granted emergency approval. Not something government agencies are prone to do to themselves. Granting full approval doesn't change the effectiveness of the vaccine nor remove any side effects for those likely to encounter such side effects. The vaccine remains exactly the same as it was prior to full approval. I did not wait for some government agency to give full approval before being vaccinated. I decided to accept the expert opinion that the risk of getting Covid and having a bad outcome from it was much higher then the the risk of the vaccine having a bad outcome . At the time, the most popular scientific opinion seemed to suggest that the vaccine would provide over 90 percent protection from infection. That has turned out to be a bit incorrect but the evidence still seems to suggest that outcomes from infection for the vaccinated are less severe. So I remain satisfied that I did the correct thing in getting vaccinated. If I thought that a President that was untrustworthy was responsible for a vaccine being rushed through the process of approval, why would I not be skeptical of that approval process and those that complied with the rushing of that approval? I would expect those that were the most obsessed with disgust of Trump would be the most skeptical of the vaccines that he had caused to be fast tracked.
But it is no longer to Trump's credit, but to Biden's, that we have the vaccines already. The vaccines were not trustworthy, until Biden stumbled ove... er, took up the mantle.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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I am kind of thinking that this whole ant-Covid-vaccination thing will end in a similar way similar to that of the X stages of grief (Forgot how many)....but I know it ends in....acceptance.

I'm pretty sure the unvaccinated will start to accept that they will have to get the vaccine if they want to be employed, join colleges/classes, gyms, facilities, or whatever place that has an indoors that they'll have to just grin and bite the bullet at get the vaccine due to the inability to do much without having it.

I know employment will be a biggie...unless you decide to go into business for yourself doing outdoor work or something.

Full FDA approval of Pfizer Covid shot will enable vaccine requirements
Capitulation (for most), you mean. The coercion being employed here should disturb every American who understands the Constitution (and anyone else with similar rights).

It won't stop here. Once ceded, the government only takes more power; it never gives it back.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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One can be skeptical of the FDA without being a conspiracy nut. Unquestioning trust is what one does when one is on a religious faith journey. It is not appropriate when considering the actions of a government agency. The FDA is not without fault nor immune from political considerations. For the FDA to not grant full approval would make the FDA look incompetent for having granted emergency approval. Not something government agencies are prone to do to themselves. Granting full approval doesn't change the effectiveness of the vaccine nor remove any side effects for those likely to encounter such side effects. The vaccine remains exactly the same as it was prior to full approval. I did not wait for some government agency to give full approval before being vaccinated. I decided to accept the expert opinion that the risk of getting Covid and having a bad outcome from it was much higher then the the risk of the vaccine having a bad outcome . At the time, the most popular scientific opinion seemed to suggest that the vaccine would provide over 90 percent protection from infection. That has turned out to be a bit incorrect but the evidence still seems to suggest that outcomes from infection for the vaccinated are less severe. So I remain satisfied that I did the correct thing in getting vaccinated. If I thought that a President that was untrustworthy was responsible for a vaccine being rushed through the process of approval, why would I not be skeptical of that approval process and those that complied with the rushing of that approval? I would expect those that were the most obsessed with disgust of Trump would be the most skeptical of the vaccines that he had caused to be fast tracked.


The FDA has approved partially hydrogenated oils that cause heart attacks. The FDA routinely approves drugs that injure and kill people, and after enough product is sold and the lawsuits begin rolling in, takes them off the market. Dozens of drugs have been removed from the market.

The FDA began approving cigarettes, even saying that Doctors recommended them, back in the 30's. The FDA STILL approves tobacco use and approved vaping as well, very dangerous to young people. " Soon after e-cigarettes debuted in Europe in 2006, tobacco companies began investing heavily in vaping. The Food and Drug Administration noted in 2018 that vaping was increasing at an alarming rate among teens, raising concern that more young people were becoming addicted to nicotine. In 2019, six deaths and hundreds of cases of vaping-related lung illness were reported. By September, 2019, the U.S. Health Secretary Alex Azar said the FDA planned to take flavored e-cigarettes off the market."

Still being sold 2 years later.

So yeah, the idea that the FDA is to be trusted is specious at best.

..."Yale School of Medicine found that nearly a third of those approved from 2001 through 2010 had major safety issues years after the medications were made widely available to patients.

Seventy-one of the 222 drugs approved in the first decade of the millennium were withdrawn, required a "black box" warning on side effects or warranted a safety announcement about new risks, Dr. Joseph Ross, an associate professor of medicine at Yale School of Medicine, and colleagues reported in JAMA on Tuesday. The study included safety actions through Feb. 28.

"While the administration pushes for less regulation and faster approvals, those decisions have consequences," Ross says. The Yale researchers' previous studies concluded that the FDA approves drugs faster than its counterpart agency in Europe does and that the majority of pivotal trials in drug approvals involved fewer than 1,000 patients and lasted six months or less."

One-Third Of New Drugs Had Safety Problems After FDA Approval
 
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Fantine

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We will have to agree to disagree, Mark.

I will ever understand how a single American citizen--much less 73 million--could vote for or support Trump in any way, and I never will.

But you are mistaken when you say that the media deceived or misled the American public.

Most of us developed our opinions from primary sources, the former president himself on television, you tube videos, at news briefings where he insulted reporters and left in a huff, in televised debates where he stalked his opponent, skulking around like a WWE wrestler, in campaign appearances obstensibly for others where he never failed to lead with his "poor poor pitiful me" routine, in international gatherings where he pushed other people out of photos--even the Queen of England, in Puerto Rico where he threw out paper towels, promising "the check is in the mail," when the check never arrived as promised, in California, where he told Governor Newsom that California didn't deserve forest fire help because they didn't maintain the forests--90% of which were under federal control.

We didn't need the media to editorialize any of that. It was as plain as the nose on our faces.

TBT, if I were making a purchase and had a car salesman like Trump, I would purchase elsewhere.
If he were preaching at a church (incongruous as that would be) I would join another congregation.
If he were a doctor I would go to a different clinic.

One paragraph...no, one sentence was enough for me.

Biden just said, as Truman before him, "the buck stops here."

The former president accepted responsibility for nothing, blamed others for everything...

But now that his own followers are turning against him, perhaps he will be relegated to the dustbin of history or the bottom of the best American presidents list.
 
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Mark Quayle

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But now that his own followers are turning against him, perhaps he will be relegated to the dustbin of history or the bottom of the best American presidents list.
This part identifies your problem, including just about all you deny. You actually believe those that booed his recommendation of the vaccine are turning against him. You believe what the media tells you. And you believe government has your best interests in mind, when they flex their muscles.

But I agree with you about the salesman, preacher and doctor. I wouldn't buy it either, and I don't buy all Trump says. He is not my salesman, preacher nor doctor.
 
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TLK Valentine

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But now that his own followers are turning against him, perhaps he will be relegated to the dustbin of history or the bottom of the best American presidents list.

Far more likely he'll do a quick about-face and never mention vaccines again.

After all, he's got 2024 to think about, and a horde of contenders/pretenders all looking to out-Donald Donald...
 
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Ave Maria

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I think now that the Pfizer vaccine has gotten full FDA approval, it will help to convince some people to get vaccinated but I'm pretty sure there are still people out there who will refuse it. I posted on Facebook about it getting full approval earlier and right away one of my relatives posted that they would still not get vaccinated. I just hope and pray that none of my unvaccinated relatives come down with the virus because it could potentially kill them.
 
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HisGraceAbounds

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FDA approval won't matter to the highly educated. They've done their research and there is no changing their mind. Violations of all 10 points of the Nuremberg Code, especially those dealing with 'informed consent' and the lack of a control group in the initial clinical trials. Folks with PhDs know how research is SUPPOSED to be conducted, so when something smells rotten in Denmark...

FDA approval won't matter to the innately stubborn. Make life difficult for them to manipulate them into compliance? Cowardly, and it won't work. The more it is pandered, the more resistance they will meet. The vaccination rate in the US is less than HALF of what is being reported in the mainstream media. Everyone OVERSOLD it as soon as it came out, and that threw up flags of suspicion for a lot of people.

"A vaccine so safe the government has to coerce you to take it, for a virus so deadly you have to get a test to find out if you have it"


FDA approval only matters to folks who trust the medical establishment, trust the media, and trust that they have a benevolent government who would never do anything to harm them.
 
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Desk trauma

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I think now that the Pfizer vaccine has gotten full FDA approval, it will help to convince some people to get vaccinated
The threads about it being approved so far argue against that point rather strongly.
 
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Mark Quayle

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Far more likely he'll do a quick about-face and never mention vaccines again.

After all, he's got 2024 to think about, and a horde of contenders/pretenders all looking to out-Donald Donald...
Not likely. He speaks his mind, if he speaks nothing else. If he becomes convinced that the science behind the vaccine doesn't make sense, then he'll change his mind, unlike the flip-flopping the rest of Washington did, right until they got their stride with power control, in the matter.
 
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sfs

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I never said pro-vaccine. You totally imagined that. I said covid-authoritarian, which includes a wide range of authoritarian diktats, such as mandatory masks, mandatory injections, mandatory closure of businesses, mandatory restrictions on movement.
But what you chose to attack was the efficacy of vaccines. I feel it's important to point out when people provide misleading information about vaccines, which is what you did. I do not care whether you were supplying misleading information because you were attacking 'covid-authoritarians' or because you have a personal grudge against Pfizer. People should know that vaccination greatly reduces transmission and that is the point my post was making.
 
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Pommer

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Not likely. He speaks his mind, if he speaks nothing else. If he becomes convinced that the science behind the vaccine doesn't make sense, then he'll change his mind, unlike the flip-flopping the rest of Washington did, right until they got their stride with power control, in the matter.
Changing-mind≠flip-flopping?
 
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TLK Valentine

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Not likely. He speaks his mind, if he speaks nothing else. If he becomes convinced that the science behind the vaccine doesn't make sense, then he'll change his mind, unlike the flip-flopping the rest of Washington did, right until they got their stride with power control, in the matter.

During his campaign, I watched the man flip-flop on abortion three times in one week.

ETA: It was actually four times -- assuming his original position was sincere.
 
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Mark Quayle

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Changing-mind≠flip-flopping?
Let's see... 'changing one's mind once in awhile' vs 'almost daily changing their mind (and vehemently too!)' ...hmmm
 
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