American Teachers Resign Over Oddly Similar Circumstances...

[rjs330]

I think there is racism in the fabric of how American culture works.

Because, as I have offered, racism is a human tendency . . . of our selfish nature wanting to compete and have more than others, and to put others down so we can have more. But racism is only one way of doing this.

But I would not generalize that everything American is racist. But I need to see however I myself can be racist . . . plus how I can be conceited in other ways, also. Because if I can be racist, also my character selfish can work out in other ways.

So, talking about and pointing at only or mainly the problem at the system level could be a way of decoying our attention away from how we ourselves need to change. And we are at risk of making a few gestures, only.

You are perfectly entitled to believe you have racist tendencies. However your argument has a severe weakness. You are absolutely correct when you indicate man is inherently self centered. We as humans always want more. And we often want what others have and are willing to do whatever it takes to get it. Sometimes at the expense of others. I think over all as a society we are not willing to crush others to get what we want. Some people are. But I would say most are not.

A good example is in driving behavior. A lot of people are not willing to let you into their lane ahead of them. Or some will cut you off just to get ahead of you. Not everyone is like that. And most people will let you in if you signal that you want to get into the lane.

However the selfish behavior that we all exhibit is based upon our own will and ego and not in racism. At least not in the vast majority of people's minds and hearts. It doesn't matter what race you are, you just want to get ahead or get what you want. It doesn't matter the race of the person you are placing behind your desires. White people are not saying I want what I want at the expense of blacks. Because they want what they want at the expense of everyone.

Once again there are racists. But the very fact we are selfish does not equate that we have racist tendencies. It just merely equates that we are selfish. That's it.

 

[rjs330]

...and hence the American society is irredeemable. It must be destroyed and a new one built from the ground up. Not just the government, but all social institutions.

Yup, that's what they believe.

 

[rturner76]

Personal attacks...because apparently it's too difficult to explain. Why don't you explain how it works?



Is the disparity in wealth between latinos and blacks due to systemic racism from one group against the other?



I fully acknowledge that the past affects the present. I really couldn't have stated it more plainly.

The weird part is that anyone believes that needs explained.



Old examples that are now against the law. If it's a problem now, it shouldn't be so difficult to get some good present day examples.

I am confident that there is no explanation that you will accept. I've seen great explanations of how it works and you just wave it off. It's not for lack of information, it's for lack of information you like.

 

[rjs330]

Because you can look them up.

Who are you talking about?

 

[rjs330]

Most of these are so obvious I wouldn't think you would need any, but how about

"CRT recognizes that racism is engrained in the fabric and system of the American society. The individual racist need not exist to note that institutional racism is pervasive in the dominant culture."

Redlining would be an obvious example of this:

"Redlining is a discriminatory practice that puts services (financial and otherwise) out of reach for residents of certain areas based on race or ethnicity. It can be seen in the systematic denial of mortgages, insurance, loans, and other financial services based on location (and that area’s default history) rather than on an individual’s qualifications and creditworthiness. Notably, the policy of redlining is felt the most by residents of minority neighborhoods."

Is redlining legal?

 

[rjs330]

Not entirely, no. you can use it against neighborhoods by simply using flood plains and other geographical features. Guess what that does in largely segregated communities where blacks were pushed into the worst land? And then beyond that, the damage from original redlining was not even close to addressed. And this is just one core example.

I see, so flood planes are racist? How are geographical features racist? You know that a flood plane is a flood plane and it doesn't matter who lives in one. Are you trying to say that if a white person lived in a flood plane or wanted to build on one etc. They would be provided a loan while a black person on the same piece of land would be denied? You have evidence of that?

 

[rjs330]

Perhaps the teacher is not looking at the curriculum objectively.

Just because she believes it will have those negative effects doesn't mean it will. Obviously many see it as a pathway to understanding and healing.

Which makes it a philosophical agenda and opinion and not factual. Thus indoctrinating children with it would.be wrong.

 

[Fantine]

Fact: America, especially the South, ran on slave labor.
Fact: Slavery is a moral evil.
Fact: Native Americans were driven off their lands on a death March called the trail of tears. Manhattan was bought for $24 worth of trinkets.
Fact: We were the immigrants. We moved on on their land and drove them off.
Fact: Displacing others and driving them off their lands is immoral--and if they suffer death and disease as a result, there could be an element of genocide.

The immorality of some of our acts is not philosophical. It is not a matter of opinion.

Japanese internment was not morally neutral.

Our children are tougher than we think. They can accept that we made mistakes during our history and we should strive to be better. We can love America enough to want to move forward positively.

 

[rjs330]

Thanks for the sports update.

If you want someone to admit that there is some racism in the US and they are arguing against something like the crt which is based on the fact that racism exists, there is a tendency to deny anything associated with crt and to resist admitting the problem exists in the first place. People are wary of slippery slopes. We've already seen examples of this - when there is strong resistance to answer even the most basic of questions.

But if you revese the argument so it becomes a nonsensical proposition 'So you say there is no racism in the US', then accepting that proposal makes you look foolish. And you end up with what you wanted in the first place. An admission 'well, there is obviously some racism in the US'.

I guess the technique was too subtle for you. Go the Yankees!

This is as disingenuous as it gets. I have to wonder if you are being totally disingenuous, naive or wilfully ignorant.

As has been proven to you over and over again CRT does not say "racism exists". And the argument against CRT is not "racism does not exist.".

How many times and how many ways do we have to say it? How many times does it have to be quoted to you before you get it? Just tell us please so we can do it in one post and get it over with. Then we can move on to what the facts actually are.

Cause I'd love for you to point out who actually said there is no racism.

 

[gaara4158]

I'm fine, thanks.

.

What outgroup is that?



I quoted a definition of CRT earlier in the thread. I also predicted the tactics used to justify this nonsense. I literally said 1 of the 2 major tactics is pretending this is about history....

Thanks for proving me right.

Your familiarity with the corrections to your errors — and your persistence in making them anyway — says more about you than about the things you’re mad about.

 

[Bradskii]

I have no idea why people are liking and winnering this post. Your assertion as to what CRT is teaching is false. CRT does NOT teach there is racism in the US. It teaches that it's engrained in the fabric and system of American society. That is a far cry from "racism exists". Because literally no one says it doesn't.

I haven't discussed what crt might or might not teach. I'm sure this line of enquiry will get there in due course. But proponents of crt see it as an answer to a problem. We first have to determine if the problem exists.

 

[Bradskii]

Another strawman. Racism is not being denied.

We have first questioned if racism exists. Just to make absolutely sure that we're all on the same page. We are. We all agree it exists. The next step is to see what form it takes.

Too many of these threads are just statements of opinion. This is wrong. No, that is right. Etcetera. So let's take some time to dig a little deeper and see where the problem actually lies. Then we can discuss the best way of solving it.

If you want a quick and snappy answer then feel free to post one.

 

[Bradskii]

Cause I'd love for you to point out who actually said there is no racism.

And again, we know that racism exists. Nobody is denying it. What we are doing is examining what form it takes so we'll have a better understanding of how to combat it. If you think that racism is just a bunch of white supremacists denigrating black people then I really think you're missing the point.

But feel free to offer some suggestions to move the discussion on if you like. Or answer the question I posed to Ana. Seems he's not keen on doing so. Looks like I need to ask him again...

 

[Ana the Ist]

I am confident that there is no explanation that you will accept.

Uh huh....

I've seen great explanations of how it works and you just wave it off.

Where? Link one.

 

[Ana the Ist]

And again, we know that racism exists. Nobody is denying it. What we are doing is examining what form it takes so we'll have a better understanding of how to combat it. If you think that racism is just a bunch of white supremacists denigrating black people then I really think you're missing the point.

But feel free to offer some suggestions to move the discussion on if you like. Or answer the question I posed to Ana. Seems he's not keen on doing so. Looks like I need to ask him again...

Sorry if I missed a question Bradskii....what post number?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Your familiarity with the corrections to your errors.

Don't be upset with me just because I was able to predict what you said before you said it.

It's not hard. I just have to look at what the liberal media is saying.

There's a lot of posters on here that simply parrot whatever they read in NYT and never bother to check and see if it's true.

 

[rjs330]

We aren't discussing whether we think it's right or wrong. We're currently discussing if it's part of society. And as we have agreed that racism exists within society, then it is part of the fabric of that society. And we aren't drawing any conclusions from that as yet. Not who is racist or the extent of it or whether it is increasing or decreasing. But don't worry, we'll get to that.

Now as to which group? I did specify one. I picked the largest group. Those who consider themselves white. So as I asked (do I need to keep count this time?):

'Do you agree that that group (it's the whites by the way) have advantages in all those areas I mentioned?'

It's a false premise. Just cause there are racist individuals in society does not equal it's a part of society. To be part of society it would have to be accepted by society as a whole. There are individuals in society that are murderers. That does not equal to the society is a murderous society. Just cause there are racists in society does not equal a racist society.

 

[Bradskii]

Sorry if I missed a question Bradskii....what post number?

You are kidding me, right? I don't think I've posted anything directed to you that didn't contain a question. Most have been asked at least half a dozen times and they are either ignored or deflected. The last variation on only the second question has been in posts 242, 271 and 279. I can't be bothered to go further back and list the others.

In your own time...

 

[Bradskii]

It's a false premise. Just cause there are racist individuals in society does not equal it's a part of society. To be part of society it would have to be accepted by society as a whole.

Really? Is religion part of American society? Is sport a part of American society? Is religion part of American society? Are guns part of American society. Is the blues part of American society? Is...ah, I can't be bothered to list any more.

The conversation has moved on. Please try to keep up.

 

[rjs330]

I'd say every group that was larger than a family unit.

I'd like to see the evidence for that. Since history doesn't go back that far. In fact we often see that your assertion is false. Most societies didn't have equal division of labor as far back as we can see.