THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SUNDAY!

[Lost4words]

That is true, but what does that have to do with this topic or my initial response to you?

You said there is no scripture that mentions the Lords day.

There is no scripture that mentions the Trinity.

You still believe in the Trinity though.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hi there Maria, nice to see you. According to the scriptures in Gods' time a day starts sunset to sunset. *see Genesis 1:2-5; Leviticus 23:32. So in our time today Sabbath starts from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday.

God bless

Ok however its does day " there was evening and there was morning one day".
Sabbath is evening to evening.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hi there Maria, nice to see you. According to the scriptures in Gods' time a day starts sunset to sunset. *see Genesis 1:2-5; Leviticus 23:32. So in our time today Sabbath starts from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday.

God bless

Cont.. Leviticus has to do with the Day of Atonement. The beginning of this chapter deals with the Sabbath and it does not say "even to even".
‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

( Of course I am not trying to fight tradition but this is kind of bugging me. I'll stick to " everyday is the Lord's day"! )

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You said there is no scripture that mentions the Lords day.

There is no scripture that mentions the Trinity.

You still believe in the Trinity though.

I was following you but it’s not the same comparison because God did claim His day very clearly by the scriptures shown in my initial response to you. I’ll post them again to make it easier, so you do not need to search for them.

Exodus 20: 8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day.Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight The holy day of the Lord honorable, And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure, Nor speaking your own words, (how can you possibly argue the Lord's day is the first day when this makes it so clear which is the Lords day)

Mark 2:28 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”

There is no scripture telling us Sunday is the Lords day or God’s new holy day. Which is why the Sabbath will continue for eternity to be God’s chosen day and not the first day. Isaiah 66:23

 

[Lost4words]

I was following you but it’s not the same comparison because God did claim His day very clearly by the scriptures shown in my initial response to you. I’ll post them again to make it easier, so you do not need to search for them.

Exodus 20: 8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day.Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight The holy day of the Lord honorable, And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure, Nor speaking your own words, (how can you possibly argue the Lord's day is the first day when this makes it so clear which is the Lords day)

Mark 2:28 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”

There is no scripture telling us Sunday is the Lords day or God’s new holy day. Which is why the Sabbath will continue for eternity to be God’s chosen day and not the first day. Isaiah 66:23

There is no scripture that mentions the Trinity either, but, you believe in it.

 

[timothyu]

How many sabbaths?64? Weekly and yearly.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Ok however its does day " there was evening and there was morning one day".
Sabbath is evening to evening.

Yes Maria, take a look in Genesis 1:2-5 the darkness was before the light.

Genesis 1:5 will be helpful here. "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening (עֶרֶב ; ʻereb H6153 means night; darkness) and the morning (בֹּקֶר ; bôqer H1242 means end of night or light or day).

Therefore a literal day is the darkness that God calls the night that comes first and the day which God calls the light. These were the first day - Genesis 1:5

So Sabbath is from sunset to sunset (darkness and the light were the first day)...

This is an example of a day in the Sabbath of the day of Atonement which agrees with Genesis 1...

Leviticus 23:32 [32], It shall be to you a sabbath of rest, and you shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even to even (ending of light to the ending of light; darkness He called the night and the light he called the day), shall you celebrate your sabbath.

................

You may want to also, consider that the Jews have been keeping the Sabbath now from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset our time according to the scriptures for over 4000 years already.

Hope this is helpful

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Cont.. Leviticus has to do with the Day of Atonement. The beginning of this chapter deals with the Sabbath and it does not say "even to even".
‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

( Of course I am not trying to fight tradition but this is kind of bugging me. I'll stick to " everyday is the Lord's day"! )

True though Leviticus 23:32 was provided as an example of a day being evening to evening (the night and the day being a full day in God's time). See previous post.

 

[swordsman1]

This is not really truthful. We cannot make anything holy. According to the scriptures it was God who blessed the seventh day and made the "seventh day" a holy day of rest for all mankind (see Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11 and Mark 2:27-28) and it is God who calls the Sabbath His holy day or My Sabbaths or Sabbath of the Lord in Isaiah 58:13; Exodus 31:12-18; Leviticus 19:30; Ezekiel 20:12; Deuteronomy 5:15; Leviticus 23:3; Exodus 31:15

I disagree. But as I said this is way off-topic so to prevent derailing this thread any further and making it a complete mess I will elaborate at a later time. Let's concentrate on Rev 1:10.

I respectfully disagree. The meaning of κυριακή ημέρα in the Koine Greek of "the Lords day" is κυριακή (kyriakós; G2960) ημέρα (hēméra: G2250) simply means the day belonging to the Lord or the Lord's ownership of "the day". There is no scripture links to Sunday or the first day of the week in the bible in regards to "the Lords day" being Sunday or the first day of the week.

Since the precise Greek term only appears once in scripture, I agree there is nothing linking it to Sunday (or to the sabbath for that matter). However in the historical use of the term in early Christian writings from the same period that John wrote Revelation, it undoubtedly refers to Sunday, the day the early Christians gathered for worship.

 

[Servus]

From scripture Christianity teaches that Jesus died on Friday (Good Friday) and rose from the dead on Sunday (Easter Sunday). Easter Sunday is the most significant Christian holiday. People who don't attend church any other time, will attend an Easter Sunday service. That's why Sunday is a day of significance to Christians. It's all about the Resurrection.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So basically for SDA Colossians 2:16 cancels out everything about the sabbath except for Exodus 20:8-11. Also you say "holy convocation of no work", which is how I interpret it. However I've read SDA saying the holy convocation means we're supposed to go to church on Saturday.

Sorry got no idea what your talking about. You do know that there was many different kinds of sabbaths in the old covenant right that where not God's 4th commandment that could fall on any day of the week right depending on the yearly cycle?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ This is not really truthful. We cannot make anything holy. According to the scriptures it was God who blessed the seventh day and made the "seventh day" a holy day of rest for all mankind (see Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11 and Mark 2:27-28) and it is God who calls the Sabbath His holy day or My Sabbaths or Sabbath of the Lord in Isaiah 58:13; Exodus 31:12-18; Leviticus 19:30; Ezekiel 20:12; Deuteronomy 5:15; Leviticus 23:3; Exodus 31:15

Your response here...

I disagree. But as I said this is way off-topic so to prevent derailing this thread any further and making it a complete mess I will elaborate at a later time. Let's concentrate on Rev 1:10.

You disagree about what exactly? Let's not disagree for the sake of a disagreement. Please be specific and provide scripture showing why you disagree. What was it that you disagree with in the section you are quoting from of my post above according to the scriptures? Can we as men make anything holy? Did God bless and make holy the Sabbath day for all mankind? Does God claim ownership of the Sabbath day by calling the Sabbath "My Holy day"; "My Sabbaths"; "Sabbath of the Lord"? Did Jesus say in His own words that he is the Lord of the Sabbath day? All the above are verbatim scripture which is God's Word not my words but you disagree with your words that are not God's Word without explaining why you disagree with the post and scriptures shared there. Can you be specific as I am confused by your response here. What is it exactly that you disagree with in the scriptures shared with you?

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ I respectfully disagree. The meaning of κυριακή ημέρα in the Koine Greek of "the Lords day" is κυριακή (kyriakós; G2960) ημέρα (hēméra: G2250) simply means the day belonging to the Lord or the Lord's ownership of "the day". There is no scripture links to Sunday or the first day of the week in the bible in regards to "the Lords day" being Sunday or the first day of the week.

Your response...

Since the precise Greek term only appears once in scripture, I agree there is nothing linking it to Sunday (or to the sabbath for that matter). However in the historical use of the term in early Christian writings from the same period that John wrote Revelation, it undoubtedly refers to Sunday, the day the early Christians gathered for worship.

Actually it appear twice in the scriptures once is to "the Lords day" in Revelation 1:10 and the second time is to "the Lords supper" in 1 Corinthians 11:20. It is true that the term "the Lords day" because a term used for the Christian tradition of the resurrection but this did not happen to well after the writing of John in Revelation 1:10's use of "the Lords day". Therefore outside sources of the use of "the Lords day" do not support the biblical usage and definitions of κυριακή ημέρα from a scriptural point of view that you have also just agreed with.

Take Care.

 

[Servus]

No problem. I came across an interesting paper this afternoon by accident called
THE LORD’S DAY” OF REVELATION 1:10 IN THE CURRENT DEBATE (linked)
Have a read and tell me what you think and how it might relate to this OP?

Look forward to discussing this one with you.

I've already fully expressed my opinion on "the Lord's Day" in Revelation 1:10 in various posts to this thread. Which is actually in agreement with you, in that there's no scriptural backing that the author meant Sunday. Although for some reason you keep asking me "Do you have any scripture that supports your view that Sunday is the Lords day?" when like I keep saying, that's not my view. What's up with all the garbled communication David? Seriously.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I've already fully expressed my opinion on "the Lord's Day" in Revelation 1:10 in various posts to this thread. Which is actually in agreement with you, in that there's no scriptural backing that the author meant Sunday. Although for some reason you keep asking me "Do you have any scripture that supports your view that Sunday is the Lords day?" when like I keep saying, that's not my view. What's up with all the garbled communication David? Seriously.

Take a read of the linked post...
THE LORD’S DAY” OF REVELATION 1:10 IN THE CURRENT DEBATE (linked)
From what you posted earlier on the earlier church you will find it interesting. Lets talk more after you have had some time to read it.

 

[Servus]

Take a read of the linked post...
THE LORD’S DAY” OF REVELATION 1:10 IN THE CURRENT DEBATE (linked)
From what you posted earlier on the earlier church you will find it interesting. Lets talk more after you have had some time to read it.

That's probably going to be a long time from now, if ever to be honest. I don't have a burning desire to know what John meant by the Lord's Day. There's umpteen things written in Revelation that people have pondered and debated for centuries.

As I've said several times before, I think Sunday is significant to Christians because of John 20:1 Not Revelation 1:10. John 20:1, the Resurrection, Easter Sunday, Resurrection Sunday, the day the Lord rose from the dead.

 

[Servus]

The article shows that the writings of Ignatius and the Didache don't support the Lord's day as Sunday either. Funny how the clause "κυριακη ημερα" is not even in them ain't it.

I never brought up "κυριακη ημερα". That's someone else's argument. I frankly have no idea why some people are so beside themselves over Revelation 1:10.

I view calling Sunday the Lord's Day as a colloquial term. Sunday's significance lies in John 20:1

The Empty Tomb

"Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance." John 20:1

SUNDAY = RESURRECTION

I couldn't care less what Rev 1:10 means compared to the most significant event in the Bible, that the entire Bible leads up to.

 

[Servus]

THE LORD’S DAY” OF REVELATION 1:10 IN THE CURRENT DEBATE

I got a better look at this compared to what I was seeing on my phone. I see it's yet another Seventh Day Adventist article. I do not expect the SDA to present a fully comprehensive unbiased report on this subject.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

2 Thessalonians 2:15

15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by our letter.

You need to read the whole passage for context. This is not saying to obey traditions over commandments of God. Sunday worship was never a tradition or taught in scripture nor is it a commandment of God.

1 Thes 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

Jesus on the other hand said very specifically to not obey traditions over commandments of God which is considered worshipping in vain according to Jesus. Mat 15:3-9

3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

 

[1an]

The change of the day.
Originally at creation the seventh day of the week was set apart and consecrated as the Sabbath. The first day of the week is now observed as the Sabbath. Has God authorized this change? There is an obvious distinction between the Sabbath as an institution and the particular day set apart for its observance. The question, therefore, as to the change of the day in no way affects the perpetual obligation of the Sabbath as an institution. Change of the day or no change, the Sabbath remains as a sacred institution the same. It cannot be abrogated.

If any change of the day has been made, it must have been by Christ or by his authority. Christ has a right to make such a change (Mar_2:23-28). As Creator, Christ was the original Lord of the Sabbath (Joh_1:3; Heb_1:10). It was originally a memorial of creation. A work vastly greater than that of creation has now been accomplished by him, the work of redemption. We would naturally expect just such a change as would make the Sabbath a memorial of that greater work.

After his resurrection, which took place on the first day of the week (Mat_28:1; Mar_16:2; Luk_24:1; Joh_20:1), we never find Christ meeting with his disciples on the seventh day. But he specially honoured the first day by manifesting himself to them on four separate occasions (Mat_28:9; Luk_24:34, 18-33; Joh_20:19-23). Again, on the next first day of the week, Jesus appeared to his disciples (Joh_20:26).

Some have calculated that Christ's ascension took place on the first day of the week. And there can be no doubt that the descent of the Holy Ghost at Pentecost was on that day (Act_2:1). Thus Christ appears as instituting a new day to be observed by his people as the Sabbath, a day to be henceforth known amongst them as the “Lord's day.” The observance of this “Lord's day” as the Sabbath was the general custom of the primitive churches, and must have had apostolic sanction (compare Act_20:3-7; 1Co_16:1, 1Co_16:2) and authority, and so the sanction and authority of Jesus Christ. (Source: Eastons Dictonary)
.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So basically for SDA Colossians 2:16 cancels out everything about the sabbath except for Exodus 20:8-11. Also you say "holy convocation of no work", which is how I interpret it. However I've read SDA saying the holy convocation means we're supposed to go to church on Saturday.

There are two sabbaths in the bible. There is a Sabbath that is in God's commandments and is part of a covenant of Ten. God personally wrote His covenant of Ten on stone and placed His covenant of Ten in the Most holy of God's Temple. God wrote the word "Remember" about the 4th commandment which is the holy day of the Lord according to our Creator. The Sabbath is not against us it is a blessing that God gives His people as a sign between Him and us and how we are sanctified. God also said the Sabbath is a perpetual covenant and God's Word is true which is why on the New Earth Sabbath worship continues, not the first day Isaiah 66:23, Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13-14, Ezekiel 20:10, Ezekiel 20:12

The other sabbath in the bible is an ordinance and it is the annual sabbath feasts day which is about food and drink and fits the context on Col 2:14-16. The annual sabbaths are a shadow and point forward to Christ where the weekly Sabbath that is in God's holy law the Covenant of Ten points to Creation as a memorial Genesis 2:1-3

People use Col 2:14-16 as a way to do away with one of God's Ten Commandments that is a covenant of Ten and not nine. In doing this though they are breaking a commandment of God and it is considered sin 1 john 3:4, Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7. We are here to try to help so you can obey God in both spirit and truth and not worship Him in vain by placing traditions over God's commandments that Jesus warned us about. Matthew 15:3-9 God bless