Is Jonah's warning for Nineveh prophetic for today's wicked generation? Part 2

[Deep Truth]

The meaning of Jonah's name is Dove which is symbolic for the Holy Spirit, Matthew 3:16. And the number 40 in scripture often represents a period of testing, trial or probation, Mark 1:13.

Therefore Jonah's warning for Nineveh to repent within 40 days, could be a hidden prophecy for the Holy Spirit's message for mankind to repent and believe in Christ's salvation, before God's eternal judgment begins at the end of the tribulation that's represented by the 40th day of Yom Kippur, John 16:7-11.

What are the 40 days from Elul 1 to Yom Kippur?​

During the 30 day month of Elul a trumpet was blown each day warning Israel to repent and return to God, that was followed by the 10 day feast of Trumpets that would end on the 40th day of Yom Kippur, when each person's name would be written in the book of the righteous or the book of the wicked for the following year.

The 40 days of repentance from Elul 1 to Yom Kippur, prophetically represents sinful mankind's last chance to repent and receive Jesus gift of salvation by faith, before the Lord returns to judge the unbelievers when the tribulation ends on Yom Kippur.

Its also important to understand the 10 day feast of Trumpets which is symbolic for the 7 years of tribulation, could possibly take place from 2031 to 2038 as I pointed out in this previous article.

Therefore if Elul's 30 days of trumpet blasts are prophetic for 30 years of birth pangs that will precede the beginning of the tribulation in 2031, then September of 2001 could have been the first year of Elul's trumpets when the twin towers fell in New York.

And ever since this first trumpet was heard around the world on 9-11-2001, there have been increasing birth pangs that are heavenly trumpet blasts warning mankind that God's tribulation judgment is drawing near, when everyone's fate will be eternally sealed in the book of life or the book of death when the tribulation ends on the prophetic 40th day of Yom Kippur, Daniel 7:10, Revelation 20:12-15, John 12:48.

The prophetic scriptures in 2 Tim 3:1-8, 2 Peter 3:1-8, 2 Chron 3:1-8 and Ezekiel 20:31 to 20:38, appear to be hidden numeric clues for the tribulation years from 2031 to 2038.

In addition to this I believe the scriptures in Joel 2:31-32 represent the 4 blood moons that will appear in 2032 and 2033 when many will call upon Jesus to be saved in the beginning years of the tribulation, just before the wrath of the Lamb begins for unbelieving mankind in 2033, Rev 6:12-17.

While Luke 2:38 may be prophetic for God's redemption of Jerusalem in 2038, when Jesus returns at the end of the tribulation to save a remnant of Israel.

When you recognize the above prophetic scriptures that have the similar chapter and verse numbers of 2-3-1 to 2-3-8, and realize Jonah's warning for Nineveh to repent is mentioned in Jonah 3:1 to 3:8, then its possible these scriptures could also be prophetic clues for the tribulation years from 2031 to 2038, when sinful mankind will be given one last opportunity to repent and believe in Christ's salvation, before God's eternal judgment begins at the end of the tribulation on the symbolic 40th day of Yom Kippur.

• 2031 Jonah 3:1 Then the word of the LORD came to Jonah the second time, saying,
• 2032 Jonah 3:2 "Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and call out against it the message that I tell you."
• 2033 Jonah 3:3 So Jonah arose and went to Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly great city, three days' journey in breadth.
• 2034 Jonah 3:4 Jonah began to go into the city, going a day's journey. And he called out, "Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!"
• 2035 Jonah 3:5 And the people of Nineveh believed God. They called for a fast and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them to the least of them.
• 2036 Jonah 3:6 The word reached the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, removed his robe, covered himself with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.
• 2037 Jonah 3:7 And he issued a proclamation and published through Nineveh, "By the decree of the king and his nobles: Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything. Let them not feed or drink water,
• 2038 Jonah 3:8-9 but let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and let them call out mightily to God. Let everyone turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands. (9) Who knows? God may turn and relent and turn from his fierce anger, so that we may not perish."

I believe Jonah's warning for the people of Nineveh to repent in the 10 verses of chapter 3, represent the 10 day Feast of Trumpets that will be prophetically fulfilled during the 7 years of tribulation, when millions of people will repent and believe in Christ to be saved from God's eternal judgment for their sins.

And the 10th verse that says God relented from the disaster he would do to the people of Nineveh because they repented, represents the 10th and final day of the feast of Trumpets on Yom Kippur at end of the tribulation, when God will forgive those who believed in Jesus gift of salvation, as he separates the sheep from the goats, Matthew 25:31-46, John 3:16-17

Jonah 3:10 When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil way, God relented of the disaster that he had said he would do to them, and he did not do it.

The survivors of nations who repented
in the tribulation will return to worship the Lord​

Zechariah 14:16 Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem (in the tribulation) shall go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

Isaiah 19:21-25 And the LORD will make himself known to the Egyptians, and the Egyptians will know the LORD in that day and worship with sacrifice and offering, and they will make vows to the LORD and perform them. (22) And the LORD will strike Egypt, striking and healing, and they will return to the LORD, and he will listen to their pleas for mercy and heal them. (23) In that day there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria, and Assyria will come into Egypt, and Egypt into Assyria, and the Egyptians will worship with the Assyrians. (24) In that day Israel will be the third with Egypt and Assyria, a blessing in the midst of the earth, (25) whom the LORD of hosts has blessed, saying, "Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel my inheritance."

From the scriptures in Zechariah 14 and Isaiah 19, it appears the people of Nineveh in the land of Assyria who believed in Jonah's message and repented from their evil ways, could be an end-time prophecy for the survivors of the tribulation (in Egypt and Assyria, Isa 19:24-25) that believe in Christ's salvation, and will worship him when he reigns as the King of righteousness in Jerusalem, Hebrews 7:1-3.

 

[Deep Truth]

In the following articles I examine the scriptures that seem to be pointing to the years of 2031 to 2038 for the tribulation.
Is the year when the tribulation ends written in scripture?
Part 2, 2 days, 7th hour, 38
Part 3, 2-38
Part 4, Gen 14:14, 17:17, Ex 7:7, John 5:5
Part 5, Psalms 83 & 90
Part 6, Isaac's birth from Sarah at 90
Part 7, Isaac's birth from Sarah at 90

The Ominous Sign of Four Blood Moons in 2032 and 2033
Four Blood Moons in 2032 and 2033 Part 2, 85 Priests are put to death
Israel's second Passover will be fulfilled in the last year of the Tribulation

Is Jonah's warning for Nineveh prophetic for today's wicked generation?
Is Jonah's warning for Nineveh prophetic for today's wicked generation? Part 2

Will brutal Taskmasters oppress mankind before the Tribulation begins?
A 7 year end-time harvest of saints will precede God's wrath

Joseph in prison "two whole years" is prophetic for a 2,000 year gospel age
21 possible examples for a 2,000 year gospel age

Rachel after 7 years of barrenness gave birth to Joseph when Jacob was 90
The 12 sons of Jacob, symbolic for Old and New Covenant Israel

4 Prophetic stories reveal a 2,000 year gospel age followed by the tribulation
The Tabernacle reveals the age of the Law, the age of Grace and the Millennium

Why did God want to kill Moses when he lodged on his way to set Israel free from slavery to Pharaoh?
Why did the blind man see men like trees walking when Jesus touched him?

Why was Jacob called Israel when he struggled with God?
When will unrighteous Jacob be called Israel?

Why is the Feast of Trumpets in the 7th month 1st day to the 10th day?
What does the disciples catch of 153 fish represent?

Netflix cartoon encourages people to get the Smart Mark

In these articles I discuss the mystery of the soon coming rapture of the saints.
Will you be raptured to the feast of Abraham or left behind in Sodom?
Is the year of the rapture hidden in the story of Enoch?
Is the year of the rapture hidden in the story of Enoch? Part 2

Will you be raptured in the first, second or third watch of the night?
Why will the first be last, and the last first?
Why are many called to the wedding banquet but few are chosen?
Who are the sons of the kingdom cast into outer darkness?

 

[keras]

The Prayer of Jonah:
Jonah 2:2-9 In my distress I called to the Lord and He answered me, from the depths of hell I cried for help and He heard my voice. You cast me into the depths of the ocean, the water closed around me and the waves swept over me. I thought that I was banished from Your sight and I would never again look toward Your holy Temple.

The water about me rose to my neck and seaweed twined around my head. I was in a situation impossible to escape from, but as my senses failed me, my prayer reached You and in Your favor, You brought me out of the pit into safety.

Those who cling to false gods may abandon their loyalty, but I, with hymns of praise shall offer sacrifice to You. What I have vowed, I shall fulfil.
Victory is the Lords!

Jonah is the only prophet who does not speak about the forthcoming fire judgement, the terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath.
However what happened to him is an excellent example for us. For three days and three nights, that is: 72 hours, he was trapped inside a huge fish and his miraculous survival proves to us that the Lord can and will protect and save His own during the terrifying Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath. Psalms 140:12-13

The 3 day [72 hours] is right for the period from the initial flash of the Coronal Mass Ejection, Isaiah 30:26, that the Lord will use on His Day of wrath, until it all finally passes on into outer space.

Jonah was ‘in deep distress’, he thought he would die. Psalms 91:9-12

He ‘called to the Lord and He answered’. Joel 2:32, Psalms 18:6, Acts 2:21
Those who ‘cling to false gods’, will have no help or support. Isaiah 26:10

‘Victory is the Lords’, He will destroy His enemies, but His righteous people will ‘offer hymns of praise’, as they gather in the holy Land. Psalms 118:15-21, Isaiah 41:8-10, Revelation 2:7

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

I like your timeline above (in the OP), but I propose that you are off a bit. Here is my current thinking, but bear in mind I'm not an expert in Eschatology, though I am now at least applied for seminary! I hope to start in 3 weeks, Lord willing, but the last semester I take a class in eschatology, assuming I get admitted. I applied for the Master of Chaplaincy and Ministry degree.

Here goes my thinking.

2030 is aligned with Scripture in several ways, but what seems to fit best is that 2030 is the mid point of tribulation or the 70th week of Daniel, 42 months after the start of the 7 years of tribulation. That is based on my first point:
1) The next solar eclipse visible from Israel to a major degree happens on June 6, 2030. While other scenarios such as Hal Lindsey's nuclear war also result in the sun turning dark and the moon red or not giving off light, there is an actual cosmic event coming up that aligns with Scripture.
2) 2000 years after the death and resurrection of the Lord is in 2030 AD or 2033 AD, depending on which scholar you listen to.
3) Israel became a nation again in 1948. A modern Israeli life expectancy is 82 years. "A generation shall not pass" and the "Fig Tree" compute to 2030 AD.

I also found out that if the 144,000 marked in Israel represents Christians living in geopolitical Israel, that number will probably be met soon around 2030 AD too. As of 2019, 177,000 Christians remained in Israel, and that number had been on a steady decline even prior to COVID-19. So we might be really close to 144,000 if that is the correct interpretation of Revelation.

I find it very hard to believe that this 4 way corroboration is coincidental. I can't say for sure but it seems that 2030 best fits the mid point due to the solar eclipse, but then again, we are warned that no one knows the day or hour of the Lord's return.

 

[Deep Truth]

I like your timeline above (in the OP), but I propose that you are off a bit. Here is my current thinking, but bear in mind I'm not an expert in Eschatology, though I am now at least applied for seminary! I hope to start in 3 weeks, Lord willing, but the last semester I take a class in eschatology, assuming I get admitted. I applied for the Master of Chaplaincy and Ministry degree.

Here goes my thinking.

2030 is aligned with Scripture in several ways, but what seems to fit best is that 2030 is the mid point of tribulation or the 70th week of Daniel, 42 months after the start of the 7 years of tribulation. That is based on my first point:
1) The next solar eclipse visible from Israel to a major degree happens on June 6, 2030. While other scenarios such as Hal Lindsey's nuclear war also result in the sun turning dark and the moon red or not giving off light, there is an actual cosmic event coming up that aligns with Scripture.
2) 2000 years after the death and resurrection of the Lord is in 2030 AD or 2033 AD, depending on which scholar you listen to.
3) Israel became a nation again in 1948. A modern Israeli life expectancy is 82 years. "A generation shall not pass" and the "Fig Tree" compute to 2030 AD.

I also found out that if the 144,000 marked in Israel represents Christians living in geopolitical Israel, that number will probably be met soon around 2030 AD too. As of 2019, 177,000 Christians remained in Israel, and that number had been on a steady decline even prior to COVID-19. So we might be really close to 144,000 if that is the correct interpretation of Revelation.

I find it very hard to believe that this 4 way corroboration is coincidental. I can't say for sure but it seems that 2030 best fits the mid point due to the solar eclipse, but then again, we are warned that no one knows the day or hour of the Lord's return.

Jeff,
I agree the scriptures reveal the tribulation is near. However when I look at story of the cupbearer who was released after 3 days (the resurrection) while Joseph remained in prison for 2 whole years that was followed by 7 years of harvest and famine, I see a 2,000 year gospel age from the resurrection in 30 to 33 AD, followed by the 7 years of tribulation that could begin in 2030 to 2033. So we are just a few years apart in our timelines.

I just revised my article on The Ominous Sign of Four Blood Moons in 2032 and 2033.

In this article I added the partial eclipse of the sun over Israel on June 1, 2030 that you mentioned and what this could possibly represent.

I also discuss 4 blood moons in 2032 and 2033 that could represent the death of the full number of saints in the first two years of the tribulation from 2031 to 2033.

Here is a brief chart of what might happen if the tribulation is from 2031 to 2038.

 

[eclipsenow]

I like your timeline above (in the OP), but I propose that you are off a bit. Here is my current thinking, but bear in mind I'm not an expert in Eschatology,

Does the offering of the 666th individual timeline (number just a joke! I think there are tens of thousands of end-times-tables out there) indicate to you that this whole approach might be a bit off? Maybe while you're at seminary you might want to read some of the great works on Amillennialism done by peer-reviewed theologians at Moore College Sydney, Australia? My usual post below is more of a taste for lay people, but some MTC works you might consider are:-

Paul Barnett - a lighter introduction
https://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Now-Then-Revelation-Commentaries/dp/1875861416
The Search for Order - heavy reading!
https://www.amazon.com/Search-Order-Biblical-Eschatology-Focus/dp/1579107966
David Hohne - the Last Things - (Contours Of Christian Theology Series)
The Last Things (Contours Of Christian Theology Series) by David Hohne | Koorong

Now, my usual introduction:
Too many Hollywood OMEN movies have coloured the way Americans read Revelation. Everyone wants to 'crack the code' and figure out when stuff is going to happen - disobeying and disbelieving the Lord when he says NO ONE will know. Instead of a future timetable to take random guesses at, John indicates that Revelation is about the Roman persecution of the church that is about to start. 4 times in Revelation 1 he indicates it is to his generation:-

1. "to show his servants what must soon take place" (verse 1)
2. " blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it" (Verse 3). How could the early church obey something about 2000 years later?
3. "because the time is near." (verse 3)
4. "I, John, your brother and partner in the TRIBULATION and the kingdom and the PATIENT ENDURANCE that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus." (Verse 9 - ESV - capitals mine.) John already SHARES in *their* TRIBULATION! John was already in jail because of his gospel work, and already demonstrating the common theme throughout the rest of Revelation - that we overcome THIS time we are in by "patient endurance".

Revelation is a symbolic sermon, not a timeline. It's about how to stay faithful in the time between Jesus Ascension and his Return on Judgement Day. John uses powerful biblical symbols to describe (not prescribe) what this time will be like. And it could be a long time before Jesus Returns. The number 1000 is commonly used to mean "a gazillion" - like when the Psalm says God owns all the sheep on "a thousand hills." What about the other million hills - does God not own all those two? So Revelation describes a long time, and traces 4 themes. Let's check out the structure. They're to be read along-side each other - not to be read sequentially like some sort of future timeline.

HUMAN HISTORY: THE 1000 YEARS between Jesus Ascension and his Return on Judgement Day:-
Seven seals depicting TYRANNY (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven trumpets depicting CHAOS in nature (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven signs depicting PERSECUTION (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven plagues depicting DESTRUCTION.
These episodes are *concurrent*, not consecutive.

What does a particular chapter or image mean? The Bible Project is very good.
Revelation 1 to 11

Revelation 12 to 22.

Or it you want to go deeper, try (retired) Bishop Paul Barnett's book. He is not only a theologian, but has a doctorate in Ancient History and taught ancient history for many years, as well as leading tours of the bible lands.
https://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Now-Then-Revelation-Commentaries/dp/1875861416

Bottom line - it describes natural disasters, tyrants persecuting the church as 'beast-states', the temptations of trusting in materialism and luxury and even state security, and all manner of other trials and tribulations and temptations of the last 2000 years and counting.

BEAST THEN
So what is it like to see Revelation through this lens? Let's look at the famous Dragon and the Beast out of Revelation 13. This describes Rome's persecution of the Christians in Asia Minor, and John uses theological images from the OT to warn that any time the State rises up against God's people, Satan is behind it. But love your enemies and stay true to Jesus, because this is how we achieve victory. There is also a clever reference to the 'Anti-Shema' - the prayer of dedication to God we read about in Deuteronomy 6:4-8 where they tied a prayer of loyalty to God on their hands and forehead. Don't be tempted to replace God with Nero Caesar (666) or another 'Beast' (Beast in Hebrew also works out to be 666) like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, or whoever. Stay true to God, whatever happens! Don't let your first love for God be claimed by the State! Persecution is awful - but for the Christians that suffer with patient endurance and hope, Revelation has vivid images of the judgement of the wicked and wonderful promises if we hold fast to Jesus. He will return and raise and reward them. Indeed, it's such an important theme to dwell on, John repeats it a number of times throughout the book.

FUTURIST DISAPPOINTMENT?
Say what? But aren't we all meant to come up with some mysterious end-times figure to guess at? Are you really saying that Revelation is not a future-timetable to guess at? Doesn't that make the book boring if it's not ABOUT us? This is the great temptation in theology today. I do worry that reading Revelation as *about* us is a bit of a gateway drug to a kind of narcissistic saviour-complex. Instead of being inspired to love and serve Jesus and trust him no matter what - we become like Sarah Connor from the Terminator movies, full of dread knowledge about the next few years - wanting everyone to take OUR timetable seriously! I see it in these forums, time and again. But the Epistles are not written ABOUT us, but TO and ABOUT Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, etc. Yet we learn how to do hermeneutics, understand what was written to them in the ancient Greek, how their culture would have understood the message, do the relevant cultural analysis then apply it today. If Amillennials are right about Revelation - then the same process MUST be used for Revelation. Then it turns out that 666 means BOTH Caesar Nero, Beast, AND the number of man all carefully layered into the one number. (6 is the number of man because we were made on the 6th day, work 6 days a week, and the triple repetition of the number of man also makes a false-Christ - 666 instead of 777.)

Revelation doesn't have to be ABOUT us to have a powerful message FOR us.

Also, imagine you're unfortunate enough to live in a country where Christians are persecuted today. I've heard stories from the front lines of persecution where Christians read Revelation as an amazing book of comfort in these times. The shocking imagery makes sense of the shocking things they are going through, the powerful imagery of God's judgement and mercy makes sense to them, and it comforts them. Here's the interesting bit though. They laugh - as in nearly fall of their chair - at the futurist idea that John would tell his generation of suffering Christians "You think you've got it bad under the Romans, wait till you see what happens in 2000 years!"

FUTURISTS RISK DISILLUSIONING YOUNG PEOPLE WITH CHRISTIANITY ITSELF
Futurists play endless guessing games about their own end-times-tables that promise this and that in the next few years. But they always seem to disappoint. How many young people have got caught up in these narcissistic end-times-tables - all about us - only to wander away from the faith when it all fails to materialise? I mean, if we get this kind of promise wrong - what do we really know in the first place?

MAKES BOOK IRRELEVANT TO JOHN'S READERS
I also want to ask Futurists what on earth has been the whole point of the book for the last 2000 years? The first chapter really sounds like John is writing to his generation and wants them to obey his message. But imagine if I said "The Cyborgs will zazzle the Nanocorp on the sides of Mount Olympus in the year 54,000 AD - hear and obey!" people today would just scratch their heads and ask "Obey what?" That's what futurists do to John's generation of readers. There's just nothing for them to understand - let alone obey!

So I say check out Amillennialism at the videos and links above. It's worth it.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Jeff,
I agree the scriptures reveal the tribulation is near. However when I look at story of the cupbearer who was released after 3 days (the resurrection) while Joseph remained in prison for 2 whole years that was followed by 7 years of harvest and famine, I see a 2,000 year gospel age from the resurrection in 30 to 33 AD, followed by the 7 years of tribulation that could begin in 2030 to 2033. So we are just a few years apart in our timelines.

I just revised my article on The Ominous Sign of Four Blood Moons in 2032 and 2033.

In this article I added the partial eclipse of the sun over Israel on June 1, 2030 that you mentioned and what this could possibly represent.

View attachment 303913​

I also discuss 4 blood moons in 2032 and 2033 that could represent the death of the full number of saints in the first two years of the tribulation from 2031 to 2033.

View attachment 303914​

Here is a brief chart of what might happen if the tribulation is from 2031 to 2038.

View attachment 303916​

Excellent - you and I are converging on an agreement! I am actually printing this and mailing it to my bible study partners! Thank you this is excellent!!!

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Amillenialism seems the absolute least likely interpretation or Revelation. The further we study it (and I'm just one of a group), the more certain we are that Futurism in the best match to reality. The 7 seals, trumpets, and bowls of wrath are too cataclysmic and clearly global in nature, and so much of Revelation cannot possibly have occurred ever in the past that we know, in our view at least. What is coming will make World War 2 seem like a school ground fight between first-graders, according to Scripture.

I wish it were not so. Futurism is the worst possible outlook, but to be honest to Scripture, it is the only view possible, of course, in my opinion. But it is an opinion that is increasingly well studied, and Spirit informed. I am not yet convinced that Christians have a "get out of here" card to avoid tribulation, which makes Futurism all the harder to accept, but what John wrote is God-inspired, so who am I to question the Holy Spirit, the Apostle John, and the Lord Jesus Christ?

The vast majority of evidence indicates that Revelation was written during the reign of Domitian, which further locks in the Futurist interpretation of Revelation.

 

[eclipsenow]

Amillenialism seems the absolute least likely interpretation or Revelation. The further we study it (and I'm just one of a group), the more certain we are that Futurism in the best match to reality. The 7 seals, trumpets, and bowls of wrath are too cataclysmic and clearly global in nature, and so much of Revelation cannot possibly have occurred ever in the past that we know, in our view at least.

This is mainly because futurists try to read it literally without actually knowing the language of apocalyptic literature common in OT prophets and especially 200BC to 200AD. It has known symbols, numbers, etc that emphasise theological truths.

For instance, when things kill 'a third of all people' it isn't a numerical, fractional value - but the fact that in God's mercy, although a natural disaster might kill a LOT of people, far more survive. That's just one example. Giant locusts = the personification of the fear of famine in the ancient world - as locusts meant your nation might starve to death. John isn't talking about GIANT LOCUSTS - just as he isn't saying Jesus had 7 horns or 7 eyes.

What is coming will make World War 2 seem like a school ground fight between first-graders, according to Scripture.

You seem to be spraying your presuppositions all over Revelation, then using those presuppositions to justify how you read Revelation. You come to it assuming literal sentences and verses, then go "Wow! Nothing like that has ever happened! It must be in the future!" That's one presupposition justifying another. The videos I linked to above were by a guy who has actually studied how the original audience understood certain symbols and numbers - and he came up Amil. Imagine that?

I wish it were not so. Futurism is the worst possible outlook, but to be honest to Scripture, it is the only view possible, of course, in my opinion.

It's also the worst possible outcome for John's generation.

Here's John - an apostle authorised to write a message from God to them. They're about to experience some of the most vicious persecution the church has ever seen. What does John say to them?
"You think you've got it bad - just wait till I show you what's going to happen in 2000 years!"
And then... the message is largely incomprehensible. The original audience just didn't understand the kind of scientific stuff modern readers spray all over the passage, like meteor strikes, CME's, etc. It's like someone telling us...
"The cyphers will implant the zzzzzzzzting across the warbles on Mars in the decades after the 4000AD cypherwar. NOW HEAR AND OBEY!" I mean, what on earth would John's generation made of all these commands to obey irrelevant futurist weirdness when they're watching their loved ones get cut in half in the arena?

But it is an opinion that is increasingly well studied, and Spirit informed. I am not yet convinced that Christians have a "get out of here" card to avoid tribulation,

Well that's where Amils agree with you. We read Revelation as a book of comfort to Christians that lost loved ones during the Boxing Day Tsunami, or someone to cancer, or some missionary friend to overseas persecution and martyrdom. And for us rich in the west, the temptation to worship the State for our national security - I mean, just look at the rise of Trumpist Christians that seemed more concerned for Trump than they were for the integrity of their faith!

which makes Futurism all the harder to accept, but what John wrote is God-inspired, so who am I to question the Holy Spirit, the Apostle John, and the Lord Jesus Christ?

You and I are not questioning them.
We're questioning our understanding of the text.

The vast majority of evidence indicates that Revelation was written during the reign of Domitian, which further locks in the Futurist interpretation of Revelation.

I honestly don't know why you think this

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Why use symbolism when a literal interpretation is equally valid? Once you start down this road, where do you stop? Adam and Even symbolic? The flood was symbolic?

 

[eclipsenow]

Why use symbolism when a literal interpretation is equally valid?

What evidence do you have that John's original audience would have read it as literal, especially when Jewish gematria is quite well understood and very old, and especially when he was already re-using ancient symbols like Gog - which was ALREADY ancient by the time Daniel used it!

Once you start down this road, where do you stop? Adam and Even symbolic? The flood was symbolic?

Adam means man, Eve means woman. The first 11 Chapters of Genesis are a very distinct genre of literature and HIGHLY symbolic. I'll enter a short bit of info on this but this really is a whole other subject. But yes - it is ultimately about recognising that this 'book' we call The Bible is actually a library of 66 different books, many with completely different subjects and themes and literary styles than others. But the one God breathed them all into being, through the people and languages and cultures and idioms and metaphors and syntaxes of the times. Back to Genesis.

What we find in Genesis 1 is not exactly poetry of the type we find in the biblical book of Psalms but nor is it recognizable as simple prose. It is a rhythmic, symbolically-charged inventory of divine commands." https://www.publicchristianity.org/the-genre-of-genesis-1-an-historical-approach/ More at his podcast. Six Days​

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

According to the book I am studying, for the first 300 years of the church, the view was premillennialism. Amillenialismism apparently became popular during the middle ages but faded around the year 1900. Actually three books agree on this point.


Let's agree to disagree, and not continue to sidetrack the OP's thread.

 

[eclipsenow]

SO - what is the first date to look for on your end-times-table - and what do you do if it fails?

 

[timtams]

The vast majority of evidence indicates that Revelation was written during the reign of Domitian, which further locks in the Futurist interpretation of Revelation.

What evidence? One ambiguous text from Irenaeus?

 

[keras]

What evidence? One ambiguous text from Irenaeus?

The contentious issue of when Revelation was written is only important to those with the agenda of making Revelation fit the Roman conquest of Judea.
But the fact that the Romans did re-conquer Jerusalem in 70 AD, and in 135 AD , 65 years later, under Emperor Hadrian, finally exile all the Jews and plowed over Jerusalem, means that the prophesies of Revelation, from Revelation 6:12, bear no relation to any historical events.

Those Prophesies confirm and expand on all the other Bible prophesies about how the Lord will, once again take action in His Creation.
Whether people like it or not; it WILL take place as Written.
Our best course of action is to be prepared for dramatic events and to stand firm in our faith thru it all.

 

[eclipsenow]

But the fact that the Romans did re-conquer Jerusalem in 70 AD, and in 135 AD , 65 years later, under Emperor Hadrian, finally exile all the Jews and plowed over Jerusalem, means that the prophesies of Revelation, from Revelation 6:12, bear no relation to any historical events.

Might not be much to do with Revelation - except for the little detail that it's EXACTLY the sort of persecution a "Beast State" would do, causing tribulation from tyrants.

Whether people like it or not; it WILL take place as Written.

No one doubts that - we're just interpreting what is written - aren't we?

Our best course of action is to be prepared for dramatic events and to stand firm in our faith thru it all.

Exactly. Dramatic events like climate change and covid and unemployment and prejudice and persecution and North Korea hurting Christians and earthquakes and famines and wars and disease. All of which describes life across the last 2000 years. Only climate change and a population of over 8 billion might be accelerating these trends as the rich materialism of some nations makes them indifferent to the very real suffering and plight of others.

 

[keras]

No one doubts that - we're just interpreting what is written - aren't we?

But your ideas of 'interpretation' are to make Revelation into a 'highly symbolic' mixup of past events.
Doing that is to make God's Word to us, into something we need not take any notice of. Not sensible or wise at all.

We all know that there must be soon; huge changes to our civilization.
Wouldn't it be better to have some idea as to what they might be?

 

[eclipsenow]

But your ideas of 'interpretation' are to make Revelation into a 'highly symbolic' mixup of past events.
Doing that is to make God's Word to us, into something we need not take any notice of. Not sensible or wise at all.

We all know that there must be soon; huge changes to our civilization.
Wouldn't it be better to have some idea as to what they might be?

There was this man that tore down his barn to build a bigger, better one. See, he was a farmer and had crops to store - and with a bigger barn - it was all about the money. So then he though, "Cool - now I can take it easy, watch the All Blacks, and relax."
​

Wait wait! Stop it Jesus - this guy in 2000 years doesn't understand parables or metaphors! You just can't say anything meaningful in this story fashion you seem to love so! If it isn't about the specifics, like specific real people and events, it doesn't have any meaning!

 

[keras]

Wait wait! Stop it Jesus - this guy in 2000 years doesn't understand parables or metaphors! You just can't say anything meaningful in this story fashion you seem to love so! If it isn't about the specifics, like specific real people and events, it doesn't have any meaning!

What I promote; from The Prophetic Word, is specific and meaningful.
You don't like the idea that world changing events may happen in your lifetime.
So to all who reject the warnings the God has given us, you are the classic scoffers, thinking your easy life will just continue indefinitely.
At least if you have actually read the warnings I have posted, you will know what does happen, is from the Lord.

 

[eclipsenow]

What I promote; from The Prophetic Word, is specific and meaningful.

Well, it certainly is specific. Like verses about God's blessing to come on Israel being a literal CME literally 7 times brighter than the sun (which sounds suspiciously unscientific - but when someone's taking stabs in the dark at the literary genre in a collection of 66 ancient books - there's bound to be some whoppers.)

You don't like the idea that world changing events may happen in your lifetime.

Don't Bulverise - it's a cheap logical error.

The method of Bulverism is to "assume that your opponent is wrong, and explain his error." The Bulverist assumes a speaker's argument is invalid or false and then explains why the speaker came to make that mistake (even if the opponent's claim is actually right) by attacking the speaker or the speaker's motive. The term Bulverism was coined by C. S. Lewis[1] to poke fun at a very serious error in thinking that, he alleged, recurs often in a variety of religious, political, and philosophical debates.

Similar to Antony Flew's "subject/motive shift", Bulverism is a fallacy of irrelevance. One accuses an argument of being wrong on the basis of the arguer's identity or motive, but these are strictly speaking irrelevant to the argument's validity or truth.​

So to all who reject the warnings the God has given us, you are the classic scoffers, thinking your easy life will just continue indefinitely.

Who are you kidding? I could die tomorrow. Delta is in Sydney, and I've only had one jab.

At least if you have actually read the warnings I have posted, you will know what does happen, is from the Lord.

Ewww! You honestly think your scattered verses plucked out of context (and therefore meaning) and mashed together into something from your own imagination is from the Lord? That just makes me wince.

The LORD tells me we will not know, that he will return like a thief, that life will be PRETTY NORMAL with everyone marrying and giving in marriage, that some will be rescued and others left behind to be destroyed in the 'flood' of judgement. This absolutely contradicts YOUR timeline of the Return of Jesus / Coming of the Son of Man where it's absolutely predictable because he's already reigned 1000 years on earth! (Or something... how does a Millennium work on your schema anyway if the Lord has already returned to rule from Jerusalem BUT he doesn't return in judgement as the verses below plainly show?)

He returns with his angels and everyone is judged for all eternity. That's the plain reading of some of the clearest verses on eschatology in the whole bible - Matthew 24:35-44 and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 and they UTTERLY DESTROY your timetable! You are wrong. Deal with it.


MATTHEW 24:35-44
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.... “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.