Israel - Vaccination Rate Doesn’t Seem To Impact The Infection Rate

[Andrewn]

15 out of 20 who were fully vaccinated died. Not encouraging

I'm sorry, where do you get this statistic?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I'm sorry, where do you get this statistic?

Your #7 post...The Jerusalem Post...last line.
Coronavirus in Israel: What do we know about the 143 hospitalized people?

 

[Andrewn]

Your #7 post...The Jerusalem Post...last line.

Thank you for pointing this out, it certainly needs an explanation. The article also says:

"Although the number of serious patients is on the rise – with 154 new ones this month compared to only 31 new ones in May and 17 in June – there were 972 new serious cases last July."

I understand this to indicate that public vaccination has been quite effective in reducing the incidence of serious infection but that immunity is waning out, gradually.

"So far this month, 20 people have died of the virus, compared to nine people last month and 237 in July 2020. Fifteen of the 20 people who died this month were fully vaccinated."

This seems to imply that among people who died of Covid this month, the ratio of vaccinated to unvaccinated is 3:1, which is the same ratio of vaccinated to non-vaccinated Israelis, meaning that vaccines offered no protection.

However, vaccines did significantly lower the incidence of Covid death in the country. And we don't know how old those who died were (perhaps vaccines are less effective in certain age groups) or how long ago they were vaccinated (clearly vaccine efficacy is short-lived as Pfizer vaccine producers admit).

Conclusion: Vaccines are effective. One should certainly advocate for vaccination with the caveat that we may need a 3rd dose, perhaps after 6 Mo, as is the case with some other vaccines.

 

[Psalm 27]

Which vaccines are being used over there?
Did they, at least, have mild cases as a result?

Pfizer. Heard that Israel volunteered to be the first guinea pigs for German vax. (If you believe everything you hear )

Don’t know anything about their cases

 

[cow451]

Which vaccines are being used over there?
Did they, at least, have mild cases as a result?

We have a winner! The effect of a vaccine for a mucousal virus is that it saves lives by preventing or minimizing the most severe reaction. That’s why people vaccinated rarely end up in ICU or dying. The people most seriously ill with COVID based on ICU stats are unvaccinated.

 

[Andrewn]

However, vaccines did significantly lower the incidence of Covid death in the country. And we don't know how old those who died were (perhaps vaccines are less effective in certain age groups) or how long ago they were vaccinated (clearly vaccine efficacy is short-lived as Pfizer vaccine producers admit).

Conclusion: Vaccines are effective. One should certainly advocate for vaccination with the caveat that we may need a 3rd dose, perhaps after 6 Mo, as is the case with some other vaccines.

A new report in today's Jerusalem Post supports what I wrote, yesterday. Here are some excerpts:

"Experts and health officials are looking into the possibility that after a few months immunity starts to wane, at least for people with a weaker immune system, such as the elderly or those with pre-existing conditions who were jabbed first.

"According to new research by the Leumit Health Services published on Sunday, those who completed the inoculation – which requires two shots with an interval of three weeks from each other - over five months ago, are twice as likely to get sick.

"Leumit checked the data of some 28,000 members who have undergone a coronavirus test since June 1.

"It found that in all age groups, those who had received their vaccines over 142 days earlier were twice as likely to be infected."

Coronavirus in Israel: Number of serious patients nears 100

It is important to notice that in Israel, around 90% of the country’s most vulnerable population were vaccinated by the end of January. This is a lot earlier than the USA and Canada.

The Israeli study showed that for people vaccinated more than six months ago, the effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine at stopping coronavirus dropped to as low as 16%. Breakthrough infections were most prominent among people aged 60 and older.

Is Israel or UK right about COVID-19 vaccine effectiveness?

"Cohen’s solution is to provide a third shot to the most vulnerable people, which new research is starting to show does a good job in boosting antibody levels."

 

[High Fidelity]

We know that vaccines won’t completely prevent infection, it does however drastically reduce the risk of serious illness and death.

They do help prevent infection to some extent, but with more transmissible variants circulating in areas that are reducing restrictions, especially in countries with prominent religions that place so much emphasis on religious and familial gatherings, it’s bound to see an increase in cases at some point.

 

[Andrewn]

First in world, Israel agrees to give seniors 60+ third COVID jab

 

[Subduction Zone]

Thank you for pointing this out, it certainly needs an explanation. The article also says:

"Although the number of serious patients is on the rise – with 154 new ones this month compared to only 31 new ones in May and 17 in June – there were 972 new serious cases last July."

I understand this to indicate that public vaccination has been quite effective in reducing the incidence of serious infection but that immunity is waning out, gradually.

"So far this month, 20 people have died of the virus, compared to nine people last month and 237 in July 2020. Fifteen of the 20 people who died this month were fully vaccinated."

This seems to imply that among people who died of Covid this month, the ratio of vaccinated to unvaccinated is 3:1, which is the same ratio of vaccinated to non-vaccinated Israelis, meaning that vaccines offered no protection.

However, vaccines did significantly lower the incidence of Covid death in the country. And we don't know how old those who died were (perhaps vaccines are less effective in certain age groups) or how long ago they were vaccinated (clearly vaccine efficacy is short-lived as Pfizer vaccine producers admit).

Conclusion: Vaccines are effective. One should certainly advocate for vaccination with the caveat that we may need a 3rd dose, perhaps after 6 Mo, as is the case with some other vaccines.

I agree. What's more is that merely looking at the numbers of deaths and how many were vaccinated can be highly misleading. The elderly are at a much higher risk when it comes to this disease. The elderly are also vaccinated at a much higher rate than than younger people are. Israel has an overall vaccination rate of 85% for its adult population. For its senior citizens it has to be higher since they are the first focus of this vaccine:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/07/19/vaccine-skeptics-zero-israel-again-some-reason/

Vaccines were never claimed to be 100% effective. What they do is greatly reduce the chances of getting the disease and they reduce the consequences if one gets it after being vaccinated. Some people will still get Covid. Some people will still die. In a population that is over 85% vaccinated and the number of people getting the disease are roughly equal that means that those with the vaccine are less likely to catch it by a factor of about 6 than those that are not vaccinated. As you said it works.

And if you look at the various graphs, though cases of Covid are up in Israel, the death rate is not following it as it did in the past. Again, that confirms the claim of a lower rate of dangerous or deadly reactions to the disease.

 

[Subduction Zone]

First in world, Israel agrees to give seniors 60+ third COVID jab

If it is deemed necessary I would probably get one too. Though my vaccines were more on the order of a booster shot for me.

 

[Aldebaran]

The main point of vaccination is to reduce the death rate. Vaccinated people can still become infected and even spread the virus, even if the viral load and severity of illness is lower. But they are much less likely to end up in the hospital or ICU, which is important for lowering overall mortality and economic damage.

Then why were we ever told "If you've been fully vaccinated, you no longer need to wear a mask" if you can still spread the virus?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Then why were we ever told "If you've been fully vaccinated, you no longer need to wear a mask" if you can still spread the virus?

Because if everyone had done so the herd immunity would have become a thing.

The problem is that there is too large of a percentage of the population that refused to become vaccinated. They were perfect breeders for the disease and kept it around. If everyone had gotten vaccinated the transmission rate would have dropped enough so that the virus would have gone away.

 

[FireDragon76]

.

 

[FireDragon76]

.

 

[sfs]

Because if everyone had done so the herd immunity would have become a thing.

And because the situation changed with the arrival of delta. A lot.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And because the situation changed with the arrival of delta. A lot.

And even with the vaccine the delta variant is covered better than with no vaccine at all. if we had a sane vaccination rate the delta variant might not ever have gotten a foothold in the country.

One of the major concerns about this virus is that people would not get vaccinated enough soon enough and that variants would evolve that could get around the vaccine.

 

[cow451]

And because the situation changed with the arrival of delta. A lot.

Duh

 

[Aldebaran]

Because if everyone had done so the herd immunity would have become a thing.

The problem is that there is too large of a percentage of the population that refused to become vaccinated. They were perfect breeders for the disease and kept it around. If everyone had gotten vaccinated the transmission rate would have dropped enough so that the virus would have gone away.

Sorry, but you seem to have misread my question, which was, "Then why were we ever told "If you've been fully vaccinated, you no longer need to wear a mask" if you can still spread the virus?"
I didn't ask why herd immunity didn't become a thing.
Also, biden's goal of 70% of people getting the shots by July 4th doesn't determine whether a virus cooperates. biden is not any more of an authority on virology than harris is. His little timeline seems to be getting used as a way of blaming Americans for not following orders though.

 

[Aldebaran]

And even with the vaccine the delta variant is covered better than with no vaccine at all. if we had a sane vaccination rate the delta variant might not ever have gotten a foothold in the country.

Which country? It started in India.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Sorry, but you seem to have misread my question, which was, "Then why were we ever told "If you've been fully vaccinated, you no longer need to wear a mask" if you can still spread the virus?"

Because you can only spread the virus if you are first infected, and the vaccinated are much less likely to get infected. Even still, a vaccinate person can still spread the virus. But we must distinguish between a possibility and a probability. The advice on not wearing a mask was a calculated risk, taking into account the cost to society of advising that everyone wear masks. That calculation changed with the delta variant, which is why the thinking on masks is beginning to change.