Why do SDA preach

[Adventist Dissident]

Can you specify which text and point out where you see the Sabbath in it please? The quote included multiple texts.

Edit: Ah ok, you edited to indicate Isaiah 66.

How do you see the New Moon element of that?

no the sabbath, it clearly pointing to a future time. that is not now. i am not sure what how you are not seeing that.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Like assembling on the new moon, which you are keen to leave out every time you quote it?

Also, I have quoted it with the New Moon so what you are saying is not true.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

וַיִּשְׁבֹּת֙ vai·yish·bot (shabath) means to cease, desist, rest.

Rest in the ancient world. Rest is for work in the temple Understanding Genesis with John Walton - Resources

 

[BobRyan]

That depends on if you're saying solemn assembly logistically or philosophically. Do you think it means everyone leaving their house to meet at the temple? Or do you think it means them all complying with the sabbath law as in coming together as a nation?

As post 119 points out --
Sunday at 2:30 PM #119
In the NT it meant everyone assembling at a "place of prayer" Acts 16 or in the synagogues Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18.

And in Canaan when everyone was dispersed people did come together for solemn assembly on Passover etc and could involve days of travel to do it.

But in the wilderness where everyone WAS already assembled around the "Tent of meeting" by the millions then they had a special case.

NASB
2 “Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘The Lord’s appointed times which you shall proclaim as holy convocations—My appointed times are these:

3 ‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a Sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a Sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings.

NIV
2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘These are my appointed festivals, the appointed festivals of the Lord, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies.

The Sabbath
3 “‘There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a sabbath to the Lord.

 

[ozso]

Rest in the ancient world. Rest is for work in the temple Understanding Genesis with John Walton - Resources

How does that fit in with God commanding the people to cease from doing any kind of work?

 

[ozso]

As post 119 points out --
Sunday at 2:30 PM #119
In the NT it meant everyone assembling at a "place of prayer" Acts 16 or in the synagogues Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18.

And in Canaan when everyone was dispersed people did come together for solemn assembly on Passover etc and could involve days of travel to do it.

But in the wilderness where everyone WAS already assembled around the "Tent of meeting" by the millions then they had a special case.

NASB
2 “Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘The Lord’s appointed times which you shall proclaim as holy convocations—My appointed times are these:

3 ‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a Sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a Sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings.

NIV
2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘These are my appointed festivals, the appointed festivals of the Lord, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies.

The Sabbath
3 “‘There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a sabbath to the Lord.

Then what does the part that keeps getting edited out mean?

‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings. Leviticus 23:3

 

[Adventist Dissident]

How does that fit in with God commanding the people to cease from doing any kind of work?

God is working and we are resting.

 

[ozso]

God is working and we are resting.

I don't get what your point is.

 

[tall73]

These key proof text verses seem to only work for you guys when they're edited.

"For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings."

In other words corporate compliance wherever they happen be at the time, rather than it meaning leaving their different dwelling places to all gather together.

Think of it along the same lines as the phrase "coming together as a nation".

Yes, it was talking about as a nation. However, there were times where they were to assemble before the Lord, in connection with these.

Exo 23:14 “Three times in the year you shall keep a feast to me.
Exo 23:15 You shall keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread. As I commanded you, you shall eat unleavened bread for seven days at the appointed time in the month of Abib, for in it you came out of Egypt. None shall appear before me empty-handed.
Exo 23:16 You shall keep the Feast of Harvest, of the firstfruits of your labor, of what you sow in the field. You shall keep the Feast of Ingathering at the end of the year, when you gather in from the field the fruit of your labor.
Exo 23:17 Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

The same phrase is used of in your dwelling places, which emphasizes that it does mean all the places they dwell (whether in the holy land inheritance or not), but clearly the phrasing regarding dwelling places does not rule out assembly.

Is your contention that assembly then is only clearly indicated when specified as above?

And has already been seen, assembly was happening, but you are indicating what is commanded, rather than practiced?

 

[Adventist Dissident]

How does that fit in with God commanding the people to cease from doing any kind of work?

rest and temple go hand and hand, God is asserting his authority over the creation when he does this he creates a place for us to be "fruitful and mulitply" or prosper. The sabbath command is part of that sovereignty God is asserting his authority over the creation. The command for us to rest is to stop being God and let God be God. let God rule.

 

[tall73]

It means from month to month and doesn't change the meaning of from one Sabbath to another. We will for eternity be worshipping our Savior from Sabbath to Sabbath and month to month on God's chosen day. Some think when Jesus returns a month will be 28 days. While this is not stated in the bible, I have to agree.

Why do you say it only means month to month when new moon was something they did as well?

 

[tall73]

no the sabbath, it clearly pointing to a future time. that is not now. i am not sure what how you are not seeing that.

I get the Sabbath part. I think it is quite possible we will assemble on the Sabbath and new moon in the new earth. However, this passage is quite complex and there are a number of elements I don't expect to be in the new earth. The promises are recast in literal terms in 2 Peter 3, and by John in Revelation, and not all the particulars match up. That suggests fulfilments in a different way due to failure to attain the period of covenant blessings promised to them, as they did not remain faithful.

But my question was that if you see this as future, what do you do with the new moon portion.

 

[ozso]

Yes, it was talking about as a nation. However, there were times where they were to assemble before the Lord, in connection with these.

Exo 23:14 “Three times in the year you shall keep a feast to me.
Exo 23:15 You shall keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread. As I commanded you, you shall eat unleavened bread for seven days at the appointed time in the month of Abib, for in it you came out of Egypt. None shall appear before me empty-handed.
Exo 23:16 You shall keep the Feast of Harvest, of the firstfruits of your labor, of what you sow in the field. You shall keep the Feast of Ingathering at the end of the year, when you gather in from the field the fruit of your labor.
Exo 23:17 Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

The same phrase is used of in your dwelling places, which emphasizes that it does mean all the places they dwell (whether in the holy land inheritance or not), but clearly the phrasing regarding dwelling places does not rule out assembly.

Is your contention that assembly then is only clearly indicated when specified as above?

And has already been seen, assembly was happening, but you are indicating what is commanded, rather than practiced?

I'm saying assembly can have two different meanings. "Lets all gather together and shake hands" vs "lets all gather together as a nation".

Otherwise Leviticus 23:3 would be saying "physically gather together, while saying where you are". Which wouldn't make any sense.

 

[tall73]

Also, I have quoted it with the New Moon so what you are saying is not true.

I apologize that I missed that.

Why do you ever quote it without the whole verse?

 

[Adventist Dissident]

I get the Sabbath part. I think it is quite possible we will assemble on the Sabbath and new moon in the new earth. However, this passage is quite complex and there are a number of elements I don't expect to be in the new earth. The promises are recast in literal terms in 2 Peter 3, and by John in Revelation, and not all the particulars match up. That suggests fulfilments in a different way due to failure to attain the period of covenant blessings promised to them, as they did not remain faithful.

But my question was that if you see this as future, what do you do with the new moon portion.

who says it is the new earth?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Why do you say it only means month to month when new moon was something they did as well?

Because a new moon means month

◄ 2320. chodesh ►
Strong's Concordance
chodesh: new moon, a month
Original Word: חֹדֶשׁ
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: chodesh
Phonetic Spelling: (kho'-desh)
Definition: new moon, a month

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I apologize that I missed that.

Why do you ever quote it without the whole verse?

Because it does not change the application or context. You seem to be really concerned about my postings. Do you have something specific you would like to address?

 

[Adventist Dissident]

I get the Sabbath part. I think it is quite possible we will assemble on the Sabbath and new moon in the new earth. However, this passage is quite complex and there are a number of elements I don't expect to be in the new earth. The promises are recast in literal terms in 2 Peter 3, and by John in Revelation, and not all the particulars match up. That suggests fulfilments in a different way due to failure to attain the period of covenant blessings promised to them, as they did t remain faithful.

But my question was that if you see this as future, what do you do with the new moon portion.

new moon?

 

[tall73]

who says it is the new earth?

Let's look at the context. I am open to differing ideas. If it is saying something other than the new earth, so be it.

And I know you are open as well. While some here have said they can't change their mind, we have both done so at times in these forums and otherwise.

Isa 66:15 “For behold, the LORD will come in fire, and his chariots like the whirlwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Isa 66:16 For by fire will the LORD enter into judgment, and by his sword, with all flesh; and those slain by the LORD shall be many.

This discusses a time of judgment against all flesh.

Isa 66:17 “Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one in the midst, eating pig's flesh and the abomination and mice, shall come to an end together, declares the LORD.
Isa 66:18 “For I know their works and their thoughts, and the time is coming to gather all nations and tongues. And they shall come and shall see my glory,

This judgment involves gathering all nations


Isa 66:19 and I will set a sign among them. And from them I will send survivors to the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, who draw the bow, to Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands far away, that have not heard my fame or seen my glory. And they shall declare my glory among the nations.
Isa 66:20 And they shall bring all your brothers from all the nations as an offering to the LORD, on horses and in chariots and in litters and on mules and on dromedaries, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, says the LORD, just as the Israelites bring their grain offering in a clean vessel to the house of the LORD.

Jerusalem is mentioned, which places it either at the location of current Jerusalem, or the new Jerusalem from above. Note the themes of carrying back Israelite brothers from captivity.

There is also reference to grain offerings, etc. This is why I think the initial point of these promises was a time of covenant blessings after the restoration from captivity.

Isa 66:21 And some of them also I will take for priests and for Levites, says the LORD.

In the new covenant all are priests, and the levitical tribe is not the focus. Again this seems to point to old covenant language, in a restoration after judgment on the nations.


Isa 66:22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your offspring and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 From new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the LORD.

Now it states as the new heavens and new earth remain, so shall your offspring remain. This seems to at least put it in the time period of a new heaven and new earth. The question is whether this is talking about the same new heaven and new earth as John and Peter.

Given the earlier reference to assembly at His holy mountain, it sounds like this would be on earth.


Isa 66:24 “And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

Whether you take this of an earlier judgment when God judged the nations, or at the final judgment, both seem to point to the bodies being on the earth, rather than in heaven, etc.

There are other texts where Isaiah speaks of the new earth, etc. and those have similar elements which seem to point to a possible time of covenant blessing. But I think these are ultimately fulfilled in a different way through the new covenant due to disobedience.

 

[tall73]

new moon?

Isa 66:23 From new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the LORD.