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That's the thing, it doesn't seem to be an allegorical interpretation so much as a reason to dismiss. What is the "allegory" of the flood teaching, if not to speak of God's judgment? Yes, we do not have to take the Bible literalistically but we must at least maintain that it is the literal word of God not simply the views of some men from their perspective.I wouldn’t want to call out savage Steve either.Your point is less about what we believe the Bible teaches (proper interpretation of specifics like eternal conscious torment vs universalism) and more about what the Bible is (poetry, literal, prophetic etc.)
The thing is if someone wants to argue that the Bible is pure fiction, that’s different from if Steve (or anybody) wanted to argue that certain parts of the Bible are allegorical.
For example you wouldn’t part ways and deny someone their Christian faith if they thought that the Sampson story or the parable of the rich man and Lazarus were non historic illustrative cautionary tales, would you?
Is Genesis 3:4-5 Gods Word or my words? Did the devil say to Eve you can disobey God and not surely die? Is this not the teachings of Universalism? So what is your argument with the scriptures shared? I did not get this from the Watchtower and do not know what their arguments are. I got it from the bible. It is God's Word not mine. Why do you have a problem with the scriptures shared with you? They are only shared in love and has a help to you because Universalism is a false teaching that is designed to lead many away from God and His Word.
The issue with that sort of allegorizing is it says "the Bible can mean anything you want." Unless we maintain that there is a real meaning and it must make sense of all elements within the narrative we throw any sensible basis for discussion out the window and have become post-moderns. Could there be an allegorical meaning, God making use of some mythology to teach us about Himself? Absolutely. But the interpretation must at the very least make sense of the literary elements without discarding any.
When I say literal, I don't simply mean that it was "inspired" in some loose sense as if the foibles of the human authors contaminated the pure core of the message but that the very words were selected by God in a literal sense. This is different from literalistic, which speaks to the literal character of the content. It is possible to maintain that the intended meaning is allegorical while affirming that it is literally God's word.
Well... will the real God please stand up and show yourself?
We're speaking past each other, I think. The question is not about what the contents of the Bible entail and when I say "literalistic" I don't mean simply taking parts that are clearly not meant to be taken literally literally but in taking the accounts as necessarily true accounts. It can be both ANE mythology and the literal word of God. What I am speaking to is maintaining the authority of the Bible by treating every word as important because God chose each word carefully. That God is ultimately the author of the book, even if He used human stories to weave together His points.
Where did you get the misguided idea that the Bible is the final word? Did you put a gag order on God? Is God really done speaking? Should we not do what the Biblical writers before us have done and re-imagine who God is from our perspective? I don't mean to just make something up that pleases our own whims, but give serious thought to who God is from our time and place.
It is the same God that shows mercy to thousands of them that love Him, and keeps my commandments (Exodus 20:6; John 14:15; John 15-10). It is the same God of love that is also a God of justice and judgement that sent His only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. It is the same God that reveals His great love for all mankind in sending His only begotten son to pay the penalty for our sins (death) that we can receive Gods' forgiveness and be reconciled to God. Gods love is only revealed in Gods' justice and judgement for sin and if there was no need for justice and judgement for sin then Jesus would have have had to die on the cross and Jesus would not have needed to come into our would. Universalism makes a mockery of the death of God's dear son and counts the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace *Hebrews 10:26-31 as Gods' love is only seen in the Cross of Christ in God's justice and judgement for sin. Yet Universalism cannot see this as it is simply the first lie told to Eve from the devil in the garden of Eden that you can disobey God's Word and not surely die. Not a teaching anyone should give ear to in my view.
You can't be serious. What did God supposedly command the Israelites to do to the Canaanites in the Promised Land? (complete genocide)
Unbelief is what keeps people out of God's kingdom according to the scriptures *John 3:36
No, it's a question of authorship for authority. That God's word is final, and if we are to be justified in our beliefs they must be justifiable from Biblical data. Otherwise we get statements like this:
Serious Steve? Don't believe Gods' Word over science? Well that explains your belief in Universalism I guess.
