Would you prefer it if “Christian universalism” were true?

[Clare73]

It seemed like you needed the obvious stated.

That's what happens when you assume.

 

[Clare73]

Um...did you know that Paul, who wrote more of the New Testament than anyone else, never once referred to "Hell"?

And?

Jesus is the only one who has revealed hell in both the OT and NT.

 

[Clare73]

"In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."

"The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge"
by Schaff-Herzog, 1908, volume 12, page 96

There have been heresies since the church hit the ground. . .historicity doesn't change their nature.

 

[Cormack]

Does God prefer them to perish? I don't know!

I think that’s a question that would define the course of your life, my friend. I know my view on that question and I’d look forward to hearing your feelings when you come to a conclusion too.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So for everyone who isn’t a believer in the universal reconciliation of all things, would you prefer that universalism were true?

A simple yes or no answer to start your response would be great, then the rationale behind why you have picked either yes or no.

I used to think that it sounds nice but then I quickly realized that God’s plan is far better than any plan that I could possibly comprehend.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

"In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."

"The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge"
by Schaff-Herzog, 1908, volume 12, page 96

Sounds convincing, though I need to get more information about this to draw any conclusions. But thanks for the info!

In fulfillment of ....

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. (see also Matthew 24:24; 2 Peter 2:1-3). There is only safety in seeking God through His Word for a knowledge of his truth. (see the scriptures) and believing and following what God's Word says. WHY UNIVERSALISM IS NOT TRUE?

 

[zoidar]

I think that’s a question that would define the course of your life, my friend. I know my view on that question and I’d look forward to hearing your feelings when you come to a conclusion too.

There are a few possible answers. I list four, there a probably others. It will take an awesome revelation for me to even begin to consider nr. 4.

1. God doesn't want the wicked standing before Him on judgement day to be saved so they go (or He sends them) into destruction.

2. God wants the wicked standing before Him on judgement day to be saved but since they hate God, they choose rather to go into destruction than into heaven.

3. God wants the wicked standing before Him on judgement day to be saved but since they can't stand His presence they are destroyed being near Him.

4. God wants the wicked saved, and since He can do anything, He lets them enter into heaven (possibly before a temporal punishment).

 

[zoidar]

In fulfillment of ....

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. (see also Matthew 24:24; 2 Peter 2:1-3). There is only safety in seeking God through His Word for a knowledge of his truth. (see the scriptures) and believing and following what God's Word says. WHY UNIVERSALISM IS NOT TRUE?

Thanks for your concern and protection!

I can tell you that it will be more likely the moon landing on my head, than me becoming an Universialist.

 

[Lazarus Short]

And?

Jesus is the only one who has revealed hell in both the OT and NT.

Jesus spoke of "hades" and "gehenna." "Hades" was the closest Greek word to the Hebrew "sheol," roughly meaning "the realm of the dead," and translated as "grave," "pit" or "hell" in the Old Testament. Trouble is, "hell" comes from the languages of then-pagan northern Europe, while "sheol" and "hades" carry much less theo-illogical baggage.

Jesus also used the term "Gehenna," which was a valley where Israel worshiped pagan gods in the past. In His time, it was the city dump. It is a place you can visit today, so to translate it as "hell" is not even close to appropriate.

My research tracked "hell" to "helle" to "hel," and I found that "Hel" was a goddess/ogress to the pagan Norse. You can find her in any decent book about Norse mythology. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, a very authoritative source, "hell" entered the English language about 800 AD, a time when Danes and Norse were pouring into north-east England, and contributing lots of other loan-words to English.

 

[Lazarus Short]

In fulfillment of ....

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. (see also Matthew 24:24; 2 Peter 2:1-3). There is only safety in seeking God through His Word for a knowledge of his truth. (see the scriptures) and believing and following what God's Word says. WHY UNIVERSALISM IS NOT TRUE?

Of course, you realize that the UR community sees damnationists as the "grievous wolves," don't you? Has anyone yet mentioned the high body count of the orthodox church...?

 

[Clare73]

There are a few possible answers. I list four, there a probably others. It will take an awesome revelation for me to even begin to consider nr. 4.

1. God doesn't want the wicked standing before Him on judgement day to be saved so they go (or He sends them) into destruction.

2. God wants the wicked standing before Him on judgement day to be saved but since they hate God, they choose rather to go into destruction than into heaven.

3. God wants the wicked standing before Him on judgement day to be saved but since they can't stand His presence they are destroyed being near Him.

4. God wants the wicked saved, and since He can do anything, He lets them enter into heaven (possibly before a temporal punishment).

Romans 9:17, Romans 9:23;

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Of course, you realize that the UR community sees damnationists as the "grievous wolves," don't you? Has anyone yet mentioned the high body count of the orthodox church...?

How people view other people is not really important and is simply a distraction to the truth of Gods Word. The scriptures teach that only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them in Romans 3:4 and Acts of the Apostles 5:29. What is the biblical view of orthodox when according to Jesus many are called but few are the chosen? You do know that Christians were viewed as a sect or cult in their day and Jesus of the devil by the mainstream religious orthodox right? - There is nothing new under the sun. There is only safety in God's Word. Our opinions do not really matter and neither are they important. Only Gods' Word matters and is true and Universalism is not supported by the scriptures.

 

[Clare73]

Jesus spoke of "hades" and "gehenna." "Hades" was the closest Greek word to the Hebrew "sheol," roughly meaning "the realm of the dead," and translated as "grave," "pit" or "hell" in the Old Testament. Trouble is, "hell" comes from the languages of then-pagan northern Europe, while "sheol" and "hades" carry much less theo-illogical baggage.

What a nothing-burger.

The Catholic church uses "sacrament" for musterion (mystery).

Greek itself was a language of pagans, and yet it is the language of the NT word of God.

A word is nothing more whan what it means in the language.

Jesus also used the term "Gehenna," which was a valley where Israel worshiped pagan gods in the past. In His time, it was the city dump. It is a place you can visit today, so to translate it as "hell" is not even close to appropriate.

Get over yourselves.

My research tracked "hell" to "helle" to "hel," and I found that "Hel" was a goddess/ogress to the pagan Norse. You can find her in any decent book about Norse mythology. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, a very authoritative source, "hell" entered the English language about 800 AD, a time when Danes and Norse were pouring into north-east England, and contributing lots of other loan-words to English.

And "grace" is the same.

The word for grace in Greek is Charis (Χάρις), a given name derived from a Greek word meaning "grace, kindness, and life."
Charis is one of the Charites (Χάριτες) or "Graces", goddesses of charm, beauty, nature, human creativity and fertility; and is the wife of Hephaestus, a fire deity.

Oops! . . .there goes "grace"!

 

[Servus]

That's what happens when you assume.

If only I had used that word, your counter zinger would have worked.

 

[Clare73]

If only I had used that word, your counter zinger would have worked.

If only. . .if only wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

 

[Servus]

If only. . .if only wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

You just zinged yourself with that one.

 

[Clare73]

You just zinged yourself with that one.

Discrimination is illegal.

And I don't match humor wits with the Brian I know.

 

[Servus]

Discrimination is illegal.

Non sequitur.

 

[Clare73]

Non sequitur.

Depends on who's making the rules.

Why the change in avatar?

 

[Servus]

Depends on who's making the rules.

Why the change in avatar?

I like this image better now.