Would you prefer it if “Christian universalism” were true?

[Saint Steven]

I don`t know that you would have proof texts on this issue. Maybe some taken out of context and/or misread.

Here's a completely unbiased (as amazing as that seems) presentation about the three views with biblical defense from a teacher that is undecided on which view is best.

Hell - Three Christian Views Lecture by Steve Gregg

 

[Clare73]

How did that play out in your life?

Conviction/certainty of Scripture as the word of God. . .turning my thinking not just upside down, but also inside out. . .a filling of my being with the Holy Spirit--in places I didn't even know I had. . .joy unspeakable and glorious. . .I didn't know or understand what was going on. . .had to learn what it was from the NT Scriptures.

 

[Clare73]

Your link discusses the contradiction. (not the only one in the Bible)

Those with a literal view looking for clear direction are baffled. (thus the need for an article to explain) I understand that the
Bible is a book that points us to wisdom. It's not an answer book or a how-to manual.

The Bible is the sole judge of truth and doctrine.

 

[zoidar]

Here's a completely unbiased (as amazing as that seems) presentation about the three views with biblical defense from a teacher that is undecided on which view is best.

Hell - Three Christian Views Lecture by Steve Gregg

Gotta see this. Love this song by Steve Gregg:

 

[zoidar]

Conviction/certainty of Scripture as the word of God. . .turning my thinking not only upside down, but inside out. . .a filling of my being with the Holy Spirit--in places I didn't even know I had. . .joy unspeakable and glorious. . .I didn't know or understand what was going on. . .had to learn what it was from the NT Scriptures.

Interesting I have to say. Was this when you found Calvinism to be true?

 

[Clare73]

Interesting I have to say. Was this when you found Calvinism to be true?

I formed my theology from reading the Bible, requiring that my understanding be true to the words and in harmony with all Scripture.
It is close to the theology John Calvin formed from his reading of the Bible.
It is closest to the Westminster Confession of Faith in the 1600's.

 

[RickReads]

My comments in ( )

"Your link discusses the contradiction. not the only one in the Bible

( It`s a transliteration issue, not a contradiction and the article clarifies what the verse says.)

Those with a literal view looking for clear direction are baffled.

(Provocative remarks such as this one make it a waste of time trying to have a serious conversation with you which is why my posts to you are almost always abbreviated.)

thus the need for an article to explain.

( Again, unreasonably provocative. I used the article as a time saver.)

I understand that the Bible is a book that points us to wisdom. It's not an answer book or a how-to manual.

( I disagree but it seems to be a view such as yours is the only thing that can make your unorthodox brand of universalism biblical.)

Believing the scriptures includes understanding what you believe them to be.

( Or else understanding what the words really say.)

 

[RickReads]

I'm lost here. . .repentance is necessary as a qualifier for account/credit/impute?

Repentance is necessary to confess sin and be forgiven. To qualify to have sin forgiven you have to repent. It`s the qualifier. If you have sinned and do not regret it you won`t qualify to receive the remedy

 

[zoidar]

Here's a completely unbiased (as amazing as that seems) presentation about the three views with biblical defense from a teacher that is undecided on which view is best.

Hell - Three Christian Views Lecture by Steve Gregg

Greg makes a lot of effort to say he is presenting an objective case for each view, when it's pretty clear he isn't, and that he is undecided. He made no defence of the "eternal torment view" more than saying that some Church fathers and maybe the Bible teaches it. A matter of fact is that he philosophically debunked the idea.

Also somewhere he says the view of the eternal outcome defines our view of God. So if he is undecided about that, it should mean he is undecided of the character of God, which I'm sure he isn't. Anyhow he made some interesting observations.

 

[rturner76]

So for everyone who isn’t a believer in the universal reconciliation of all things, would you prefer that universalism were true?

Yes,

Depending on your view of what hell is......I would rather nobody suffer for all of eternity. IMHO, no sin is worthy of that kind of punishment. 2 or 3 million years of hell is good enough for genocide I think. But if you believe the lake of fire theory that you get dropped in the lake of fire and are destroyed for all time. I think that is a more humane hell and I would still support that sinners go there to be obliterated.

God is all things including all-powerful and all-merciful, he can save whomever he chooses at any time is what I cling to for hope that dead sinners can be saved.

 

[Saint Steven]

Gotta see this. Love this song by Steve Gregg:

Thanks. Interesting to see him in long hair.

 

[Saint Steven]

Also somewhere he says the view of the eternal outcome defines our view of God.

From that perspective, Universalism wins hands-down.

 

[Clare73]

Greg makes a lot of effort to say he is presenting an objective case for each view, when it's pretty clear he isn't, and that he is undecided. He made no defence of the "eternal torment view" more than saying that some Church fathers and maybe the Bible teaches it. A matter of fact is that he philosophically debunked the idea.

Also somewhere he says the view of the eternal outcome defines our view of God.

Wow! . . .isn't that backwards? Shouldn't our view of God come from what God, Jesus and the apostles teach, rather than from our judgment of his actions?

All that will yield is a backwards (from man's point of view) understanding of God.

So if he is undecided about that, it should mean he is undecided of the character of God,

 

[zoidar]

From that perspective, Universalism wins hands-down.

Not necessarly. You do want justice to be done?

 

[zoidar]

Wow! . . .isn't that backwards? Shouldn't our view of God come from what God, Jesus and the apostles teach, rather than from our judgment of his actions?

All that will yield is a backwards (from man's point of view) understanding of God.

Our view of God comes from how we understand Him. I don't think we can say all our understanding of God is through scripture.

 

[Landon Caeli]

So for everyone who isn’t a believer in the universal reconciliation of all things, would you prefer that universalism were true?

A simple yes or no answer to start your response would be great, then the rationale behind why you have picked either yes or no.

Yes I would like that.

Even if I as a Catholic spent my life going through all the extras, I would be delighted if everyone were saved... I would like that very much.

 

[Landon Caeli]

In fact, I'd even let them enter before me... There's something fashionable about being late for a party.

 

[Clare73]

Our view of God comes from how we understand Him. I don't think we can say all our understanding of God is through scripture.

The only understanding I have of God is from Scripture. Where else would I get it?

 

[Landon Caeli]

The only understanding I have of God is from Scripture. Where else would I get it?

I find prayer and contemplation to be enlightening.

...IMO.

 

[Saint Steven]

Not necessarly. You do want justice to be done?

I question the source of the "want" for justice.
And is either annihilation or damnation really justice?

What draws the townsfolk to the square to watch a hanging?
And to then stay until the last dog is hung?