Would you prefer it if “Christian universalism” were true?

[Saint Steven]

Good post.

There are three types of judgement:

1. Justice = getting what we deserve = Hell
   
2. Mercy = not getting what we deserve = Hell
   
3. Grace = getting what we don't deserve = Heaven

Paul says ...

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Universalism extends grace to include everyone, regardless of faith in Christ or not.

Your ignorance about Universalism is most of what makes you take a stand against it.
Education is the remedy.

The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

Christ Triumphant, by Thomas Allin
Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin

 

[Saint Steven]

I guess it depends on how plausible you consider the scriptures to be. I would skip the debate about what hell, eternity, etc. mean as terms and make my arguments based on standards revealed by the Bible which are almost always if not always retributive in nature.

That consists of a large supply of scriptures that would not be so easily dismissed as misunderstood, mistranslated, etc.

So... the one with the most proof texts wins? Is that how it works?

If the scriptures are in conflict with each other, what does that tell you?

There is biblical support for all three doctrines of the final judgment.

 

[Saint Steven]

I guess it depends on how plausible you consider the scriptures to be.

According to the Bible should you, or should you not, answer a fool according to their folly? What is the clear directive? Scripture below.


Proverbs 26:4-5 NRSV
Do not answer fools according to their folly,
or you will be a fool yourself.
5 Answer fools according to their folly,
or they will be wise in their own eyes.

 

[Saint Steven]

No.

As separatists, the idea of a universal reconciliation of all things is not an option.

2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

Right. It's only an opinion. Good work.

 

[Saint Steven]

That's because you don't get to Heaven by your works.

Nobody ended up in Hell because they broke one of the 613 (?) laws in the Old Testament.

They ended up in Hell because of their unwillingness to believe God to the point of repentance and salvation.

This scripture informs us that ultimately salvation has nothing to do with what we have done.

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

 

[Saint Steven]

There are three types of judgement:

1. Justice = getting what we deserve = Hell
   
2. Mercy = not getting what we deserve = Hell
   
3. Grace = getting what we don't deserve = Heaven

I don't agree with this in detail, but the inclusion of mercy as an option in judgment is rarely discussed. Thanks for that bit.

 

[Servus]

Your ignorance about Universalism is most of what makes you take a stand against it.
Education is the remedy.

The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

Christ Triumphant, by Thomas Allin
Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin

Looks like I've got some reading to do.

 

[Saint Steven]

And what's going to happen when the "Savior of all men" can't find someone's name in His book of life?

Why do you assume it is a closed book? Maybe entries are more positional than final?


1 Corinthians 15:22-24 NIV
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

 

[Servus]

This scripture informs us that ultimately salvation has nothing to do with what we have done.

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,

Yes!

so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

Uh, um, well no, that's not how it works.

19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,

Yes!

so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Uhh, well, yeah but.... er.

 

[Saint Steven]

That when we were dead in sins we couldn't repent.

Btw added to the other post.

Right. What did happen?


Colossians 2:13-14 NIV
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

 

[Saint Steven]

I believe repentance is necessary as a qualifier. The Bible says to confess sin. I dont know how you do that without repentance.

Those two terms are often confused. They aren't the same, but go hand in hand. As you probably know already.

 

[AV1611VET]

If it is a real event then why did the man get judged before everyone else? Even many of the angels are still on the loose that will have to be rounded up.

MMXX nailed it here:

I believe the way it's supposed to work is death, hell, final judgement, back into hell.

 

[Saint Steven]

I find it difficult to take you seriously. I get the feeling most everything you post is either tinged with or is outright satire.

It's the avatar. Who could take Alfred E. Newman seriously? LOL
Virtually the trademark of lampoon.

 

[Saint Steven]

"Suture self," the doctor said.

I'm in stitches. LOL

 

[Cormack]

Looks like I've got some reading to do.

Same. I started reading Steven’s link to Christ triumphant only yesterday. Cheers guys.

 

[RickReads]

According to the Bible should you, or should you not, answer a fool according to their folly? What is the clear directive? Scripture below.


Proverbs 26:4-5 NRSV
Do not answer fools according to their folly,
or you will be a fool yourself.
5 Answer fools according to their folly,
or they will be wise in their own eyes.

Believe the scriptures, silly idea in your view, eh Steve?

Do Proverbs 26:4 and 26:5 contradict? How can both verses be true? | GotQuestions.org

 

[RickReads]

MMXX nailed it here:

I disagree,

"But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished."

 

[RickReads]

So... the one with the most proof texts wins? Is that how it works?

If the scriptures are in conflict with each other, what does that tell you?

There is biblical support for all three doctrines of the final judgment.

I don`t know that you would have proof texts on this issue. Maybe some taken out of context and/or misread.

 

[Clare73]

I believe repentance is necessary as a qualifier. The Bible says to confess sin. I dont know how you do that without repentance.

I'm lost here. . .repentance is necessary as a qualifier for account/credit/impute?

 

[Saint Steven]

Believe the scriptures, silly idea in your view, eh Steve?

Do Proverbs 26:4 and 26:5 contradict? How can both verses be true? | GotQuestions.org

Your link discusses the contradiction. (not the only one in the Bible)

Those with a literal view looking for clear direction are baffled. (thus the need for an article to explain) I understand that the Bible is a book that points us to wisdom. It's not an answer book or a how-to manual.

Believing the scriptures includes understanding what you believe them to be.

The Bible Tells Me So - Pete Enns