• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Vaccination injury testimony from many individuals

GoldenBoy89

We're Still Here
Sep 25, 2012
26,514
29,335
LA
✟655,458.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
are you against informed consent? Do you not believe people deserve to know the potential risks?

There are some drugs I feel the risks are too great, and I won't take as a result. others, I know the risks and don't mind taking the chance. It all depends - but it's being informed what the danger might be that's important, and making an informed decision.

Apparently some here are totally against informed consent.
Informed consent is great and I have no problem with putting all the relevant information out there for people to make a decision but let’s not kid ourselves that was the intention behind the OP starting this thread. If it was they’d also start a thread containing testimony from all who’ve had the vaccines with no complications at all and let the reader make their own mind as to the relevant risks involved.

Let me know when they start that thread.
 
Upvote 0

GreekOrthodox

Psalti Chrysostom
Oct 25, 2010
4,120
4,198
Yorktown VA
✟191,432.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
are you against informed consent? Do you not believe people deserve to know the potential risks?

There are some drugs I feel the risks are too great, and I won't take as a result. others, I know the risks and don't mind taking the chance. It all depends - but it's being informed what the danger might be that's important, and making an informed decision.

Apparently some here are totally against informed consent.

When I received my first dose in January, we had a 15 minute class that reviewed the risks involved, side effects and what to expect based on known information, and I had to sign a paper acknowledging the risks. Yes, we do know more about the potential risks involved and that does give the medical community the ability to make better judgements if a particular individual may be at a higher risk of having issues with the vaccine. But would you prefer to go back to 4000+ Covid deaths or stay around the 260s as of the 7 day average of July 2 2021?
 
Upvote 0

Hazelelponi

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 25, 2018
11,837
11,251
USA
✟1,050,916.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
When I received my first dose in January, we had a 15 minute class that reviewed the risks involved, side effects and what to expect based on known information, and I had to sign a paper acknowledging the risks. Yes, we do know more about the potential risks involved and that does give the medical community the ability to make better judgements if a particular individual may be at a higher risk of having issues with the vaccine. But would you prefer to go back to 4000+ Covid deaths or stay around the 260s as of the 7 day average of July 2 2021?

people here in this thread seem utterly opposed to knowing the potential risks... its what the hearings are addressing... knowing what the potential risks are.

I think people should be allowed to make informed decisions about their health care, which is what a vaccine is - health care.

A lot of jumping up and down screaming because of people wanting risks known. ..

Me? I've never contracted Covid nor have I come into contact with anyone who has throughout this entire epidemic... I'll personally wait to make my own decision on my health care after we have a better understanding of what those risks might be for me, with my doctor...

What healthcare choices others make is likewise, between them and their doctor...

But I'm not in this thread jumping up and down upset that someone might dare to hear about potential risks - or the rewards - to people who choose to be vaccinated.

informed consent and all that.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Aldebaran
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
14,777
6,666
Massachusetts
✟657,537.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Should we have said "correlation doesn't mean causation" and ignored correlation as meaningless (Phillip Morris certainly wanted you to!) Or are you happy that we began examining if there was any causation?

With something such as a vaccine that is fast becoming mandatory - ignoring correlation is to our peril if it does indeed equal causation in many cases.
Vaccines already are known to have adverse reactions.

What are your stats, that you already know, comparing the percentage of nicotine users having trouble, versus bad results for COVID vaccine users?

At 17:45 on the video, Sheryl says > "Since then I have seen multiple neurologists, one of whom diagnosed me with vaccine-induced auto-immune neuropathy, although he did tell me that he was flying blind, because he had never seen a reaction like this to a vaccine, and hence doesn't know how to treat me."

And one neurologist diagnosed her with multiple sclerosis, even though her brain scan showed nothing of this.

In any case, her case was considered to be "auto-immune". I understand this would mean her own system reacted the wrong way to the vaccine.

So, among other items of this situation, a neurologist did know what her problem was. So, it already is known. But apparently it is so rare, that he says he never saw what she had, before.

Now, of course, we need to consider if it has been so rare because other vaccines have not been messenger RNA vaccines. But, even so, with my limited knowledge, I also see the point that messenger RNA vaccines seem to use only a part of a virus, while earlier ones use whole viruses, even; and so the messenger RNA vaccines have fewer antigens to cause bad immune reactions, for all I know, which could make them less risky.

So, what are the stats for the earlier non-MRNA vaccinations, in comparison with these newer ones?

So, like I ask . . . if we have the stats . . . what is the percentage of earlier vaccine deaths and neurological problems, compared to percentage of deaths and problems with smoking, compared with MRNA vaccine problems? Or . . . maybe, lots of things happened with smoking and earlier vaccines, but people did not give it enough attention . . . so now it can seem like the MRNA vaccines are the dirtbag item, when actually they have caused less problems. I don't know, of course.

But what about Maddie?

31:40 > here we can hear what Maddie's mother says. Maddie helped with the clinical trial of vaccines for children > "for twelve-to-fifteen year-olds". "Her two older brothers" in the family also participated in the trials, very eagerly. And her husband is "in the medical field" and they are pro-vaccine and pro-science. Before the second vaccine, Maddie was healthy and twelve years old, a straight-A student.

33:00 > Maddie had pain, right away, after the second shot, "at the injection sight". "And over the next twenty-four hours she developed severe abdominal and chest pain". "She had painful electrical shocks down her neck and spine that forced her to walk hunched over", and "extreme pain in her fingers and toes", and edema. Her father took her to the ER.

She was checked for appendicitis. Her reported diagnosis said, "adverse effect of vaccine initial encounter".

So, I note how though she is not a middle-aged woman like others testifying, she is a twelve year old female who had two older brothers getting their clinical test shot. But two guys in her same family are not reported to have had a reaction, while she has so oppositely reacted.

I did not find anything, so far, claiming a risk of vaccine reactions helped by birth control drugs. So far, my reading indicates that clots in females could be because of birth control hormones, but COVID-19-caused clots in females are different that birth control caused clots.

But > there do seem to be neurological disorders already known to be caused by vaccines or connected with psychological reactions somehow connected with the vaccine >

Here is a neurological group's article which seems to me to say neurological things can result from psychological ways of handling things >

Helping the Public Understand Adverse Events Associated With COVID-19 Vaccinations: Lessons Learned From Functional Neurological Disorder | Neurology | JAMA Neurology | JAMA Network

And here is what another article says >

"It becomes critical to know whether these vaccines will cause neurologic disorders like previously recognized vaccine-related demyelinating diseases, fever-induced seizure, and other possible deficits."

To my knowledge, demyelination would not be due to psychological reaction, but because of autoimmune reaction.


This quote is here >


The potential neurological effect of the COVID-19 vaccines: A review - PubMed

So, these sorts of reactions are known, already, but there are different ideas, maybe, about what is psychological and what is autoimmune. It seems possible ones know, but they are quite aware of how much they don't know.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

durangodawood

re Member
Aug 28, 2007
27,989
19,623
Colorado
✟546,977.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
people here in this thread seem utterly opposed to knowing the potential risks... its what the hearings are addressing... knowing what the potential risks are......
I have not seen these people here.

Risk is a judgement based on probabilities. Anecdotes dont provide those. I am all in favor of proper study and presentation of the risks (of both taking and rejecting the vaccines).
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Raised by bees
Mar 11, 2017
22,430
16,824
55
USA
✟424,643.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
@Hans Blaster > I agree with your idea that each case needs to be evaluated scientifically. But > if people report suspected vaccination reaction trouble to unfair people, you can't expect their cases to be handled in a scientific way and according to proper statistical procedure.

That's how it was determined to be safe initially (during the various pre-authorization trials) and how they continue to determine whether it should be withdrawn. It's also how it needs to be done if medicine wants to be evidence based.
 
Upvote 0

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
43,302
13,704
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟890,193.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Informed consent is great and I have no problem with putting all the relevant information out there for people to make a decision but let’s not kid ourselves that was the intention behind the OP starting this thread. If it was they’d also start a thread containing testimony from all who’ve had the vaccines with no complications at all and let the reader make their own mind as to the relevant risks involved.

Let me know when they start that thread.

That thread isn't needed. We already have a Left-dominated 24 hour news cycle and a CDC that is now controlled by a Leftist party. Therefore we have that point of view to listen to all day long without a dedicated thread for it here.
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Raised by bees
Mar 11, 2017
22,430
16,824
55
USA
✟424,643.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
That thread isn't needed. We already have a Left-dominated 24 hour news cycle and a CDC that is now controlled by a Leftist party. Therefore we have that point of view to listen to all day long without a dedicated thread for it here.

What do "leftists" have to do with any of this?

Drug safety, adverse reactions, etc. are not partisan or even political issues. The procedures do not change when different politicians are in charge.

Nor, do the "news media" or the "news cycle" have anything to do with drug safety issues.
 
Upvote 0

durangodawood

re Member
Aug 28, 2007
27,989
19,623
Colorado
✟546,977.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
That thread isn't needed. We already have a Left-dominated 24 hour news cycle and a CDC that is now controlled by a Leftist party. Therefore we have that point of view to listen to all day long without a dedicated thread for it here.
If anyone gets political credit for the vaccines, its Trump and his administration's successful "warp speed" project.

Its like the one thing he got right... and now you want to take that away from him! :rage:
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟82,714.00
Country
Switzerland
Gender
Female
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You posted that only 4 minutes after I started the thread, so it's obvious you didn't even watch the video. But I just love how the word "anecdotes" comes up whenever a human face is put on these vaccine injuries and deaths.
Calling what any research study calls “adverse events” “anecdotes” is a way for the pro-vaccers to
disarm what in a serious medical study are of primary importance. Any serious medical study has to document and take very seriously any adverse events. Death or paralysis puts a serious restrain on progress. In the “global vaccine experiment” they are jokes or mere “anecdotes.” Don’t take it too seriously. Those who call adverse events “anecdotes” don’t know much about science.

As far as I read CDC is researching the cardio myelitis and before that started recommending everyone wait 15 minutes after the vaccine after some receiving them died immediately. So even the CDC had to take some measures to prevent further deaths even though they say officially there’s no connection. I guess they want no further “no connection adverse events” with the vaccine taken a few hours earlier to happen.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟82,714.00
Country
Switzerland
Gender
Female
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Those are called anecdotes. I can just as easily put together testimony from people who’ve had the vaccine with no complications but I doubt you’d buy that as evidence of the vaccine’s safety.
If you are under 65 the virus is safe. Can we submit accounts of health recoveries and you not call those “anecdotes?” Or can we call every serious event from the virus an anecdote (under 65 year olds.) Fair is fair. If you call every serious adverse event merely “an anecdote” surly we can call every serious virus result „an anecdote.”
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟82,714.00
Country
Switzerland
Gender
Female
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Thats right, I didnt watch the anecdotes.

In terms of evaluating risk, thats exactly what they are.

If you want to just talk about how awful it is to get sick, then dont hint at a meaningful correlation - which I suspect was your intent for the topic all along.
Do you watch the anecdotes of those who got the virus? But they’re likely boring as 98% just recover no problems. Pretty boring.
 
Upvote 0

durangodawood

re Member
Aug 28, 2007
27,989
19,623
Colorado
✟546,977.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
If you are under 65 the virus is safe. Can we submit accounts of health recoveries and you not call those “anecdotes?” Or can we call every serious event from the virus an anecdote (under 65 year olds.) Fair is fair. If you call every serious adverse event merely “an anecdote” surly we can call every serious virus result „an anecdote.”
Absolutely.

My personal testimony to you that I got a vax, I'm covid symptom free, and thats it.... is an anecdote. As such its worthless for you to use in trying to assess risk.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Larniavc
Upvote 0

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟82,714.00
Country
Switzerland
Gender
Female
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Absolutely.

My personal testimony to you that I got a vax, I'm covid symptom free, and thats it.... is an anecdote. As such its worthless for you to use in trying to assess risk.
My personal testimony is I got the virus….it’s an anecdote. As such worthless to you in trying to
access the risk of the virus.

Get the virus…results are an anecdote.
Get the vaccine…results are an anecdote.
The outcome is no personal
testimony can tell anyone anything so the wise view is do not inject a foreign substance under the skin but continue as you are, foreign RNA free. Any other input besides that is an anecdote so ignore it.
 
Upvote 0

durangodawood

re Member
Aug 28, 2007
27,989
19,623
Colorado
✟546,977.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
....Any other input besides that is an anecdote so ignore it.
Thats false.

Carefully collected and interpreted data can provide actual probabilities. Thats what we need for proper risk analysis.
 
  • Useful
Reactions: Hank77
Upvote 0

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟82,714.00
Country
Switzerland
Gender
Female
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Thats false.

Carefully collected and interpreted data can provide actual probabilities.
But you call them all “anecdotes”
on the level of cute but needn’t be true stories generally told to entertain.

That’s not my position. I followed the evaluations and experts until I found understanding as to why and how these seemingly unrelated but actually quite related adverse events occur. They validate the theory presented by some.

They can’t be due to the vaccine for you.
 
Upvote 0

durangodawood

re Member
Aug 28, 2007
27,989
19,623
Colorado
✟546,977.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
But you call them all “anecdotes”
on the level of cute but needn’t be true stories generally told to entertain.

That’s not my position. I followed the evaluations and experts until I found understanding as to why and how these seemingly unrelated but actually quite related adverse events occur. They validate the theory presented by some.

They can’t be due to the vaccine for you.
If youve applied scientific rigor to the situation, then yes, your conclusions should be taken seriously.

But if youre just playing internet connect-the-dots with self selected data points, then... no thanks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ophiolite
Upvote 0