• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Vaccination injury testimony from many individuals

whatbogsends

Senior Veteran
Aug 29, 2003
10,371
8,314
Visit site
✟284,156.00
Faith
Atheist
So is the video actual evidence of a meaningful correlation btwn the various vaxes and getting sick? If so, I would be interested. If its anecdotal and lacking in statistical analysis, then no.

It was a discussion on more than anecdotal data. He also referenced this op-ed written by two doctors in the Wall Street Journal:

The database can’t say what would have happened in the absence of vaccination. Nonetheless, the large clustering of certain adverse events immediately after vaccination is concerning, and the silence around these potential signals of harm reflects the politics surrounding Covid-19 vaccines. Stigmatizing such concerns is bad for scientific integrity and could harm patients.

Four serious adverse events follow this arc, according to data taken directly from Vaers: low platelets (thrombocytopenia); noninfectious myocarditis, or heart inflammation, especially for those under 30; deep-vein thrombosis; and death. Vaers records 321 cases of myocarditis within five days of receiving a vaccination, falling to almost zero by 10 days. Prior research has shown that only a fraction of adverse events are reported, so the true number of cases is almost certainly higher. This tendency of underreporting is consistent with our clinical experience.

Analyses to confirm or dismiss these findings should be performed using large data sets of health-insurance companies and healthcare organizations. The CDC and FDA are surely aware of these data patterns, yet neither agency has acknowledged the trend.


Dr. Ladapo is an associate professor of medicine at UCLA’s David Geffen School of Medicine. Dr. Risch is a professor of epidemiology at Yale School of Public Health.

Are Covid Vaccines Riskier Than Advertised? - The Wall Street Journal - Newsfeed (newsfeeds.media)

(i didn't link directly to WSJ due to paywall)

Myocarditis and thrombosis are now well documented and listed as side effects by the CDC. Thrombocytopenia has also been reported and is being investigated.

This study generally refers to thrombocytopenia as a side effect of AstraZenica, but what i've read leads me to believe it will be applicable to some of the other vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) as well.

No major safety warnings, other than rare cases of anaphylaxis, were reported in the initial trials, which involved tens of thousands of adults, and the risk of serious adverse effects has remained remarkably low after vaccination of more than 400 million people worldwide to date.1 It is not surprising, however, that new reports of adverse events have emerged as many additional people are vaccinated and follow-up is extended. For example, cases of immune thrombocytopenia and bleeding without thrombosis that were induced or revealed after exposure to the messenger RNA (mRNA)–based vaccines produced by Moderna (mRNA-1273) and Pfizer–BioNTech (BNT162b2) have been reported.2

The Journal has now highlighted three independent descriptions of 39 persons with a newly described syndrome characterized by thrombosis and thrombocytopenia that developed 5 to 24 days after initial vaccination with ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 (AstraZeneca), a recombinant chimpanzee adenoviral vector encoding the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2.3-5 These persons were healthy or in medically stable condition, and very few were known to have had previous thrombosis or a preexisting prothrombotic condition. Most of the patients included in these reports were women younger than 50 years of age, some of whom were receiving estrogen-replacement therapy or oral contraceptives. A remarkably high percentage of the patients had thromboses at unusual sites — specifically, cerebral venous sinus thrombosis or thrombosis in the portal, splanchnic, or hepatic veins. Other patients presented with deep venous thrombi, pulmonary emboli, or acute arterial thromboses. The median platelet counts at diagnosis were approximately 20,000 to 30,000 per cubic millimeter (range, approximately 10,000 to 110,000), but the rate of decline in platelet counts that preceded thrombosis is unknown. High levels of d-dimers and low levels of fibrinogen were common and suggest systemic activation of coagulation. Approximately 40% of the patients died, some from ischemic brain injury, superimposed hemorrhage, or both conditions, often after anticoagulation.
...
No thrombotic signal was detected in clinical trials leading to the approval of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine,9 which has now been administered to 34 million people worldwide. The incidence of VITT, as initially estimated, is perhaps 1 case per 100,000 exposures. This should be considered in the context of the incidence of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis in the general population (estimated at 0.22 to 1.57 cases per 100,000 per year). The initial focus of these reports may reflect a propensity to study patients with severe thrombosis occurring in unusual locations, and a more complete picture of thrombotic complications is likely to emerge over time. More information on potential risk factors other than young age and female sex is needed. Also needed are data on the prevalence and titer of anti-PF4–related antibodies in all vaccine recipients, especially those who had thrombosis at sites other than those commonly reported to date among patients with VITT, in order to apply Bayesian analyses to estimate disease probability on the basis of both clinical features and antibody titer in optimized assays. This may be complicated to achieve, because many cases of thrombosis that occur after vaccination are unlikely to be directly provoked by this exposure. Better understanding of how the vaccine induces these platelet-activating antibodies might also provide insight into the duration of antigen exposure and the risk of reoccurrence of thrombosis, which will inform the need for extended anticoagulation and might lead to improvements in vaccine design.

SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine–Induced Immune Thrombotic Thrombocytopenia | NEJM

Even The Atlantic has begun to acknowledge the seriousness of the side-effects of the vaccines, although it was an aside in an article about a non-vaccination treatment for Covid:

If the FDA sees no urgency, the Novavax vaccine might not be available in the U.S. for months, and in the meantime the national supply of other doses exceeds demand. But the asymmetry in coverage also hints at how the hype around the early-bird vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna has distorted perception. Their rapid arrival has been described in this magazine as “the triumph of mRNA”—a brand-new vaccine technology whose “potential stretches far beyond this pandemic.” Other outlets gushed about “a turning point in the long history of vaccines,” one that “changed biotech forever.” It was easy to assume, based on all this reporting, that mRNA vaccines had already proved to be the most effective ones you could get—that they were better, sleeker, even cooler than any other vaccines could ever be.
...
These two particular mRNA vaccines may have been the first to get results from Phase 3 clinical trials, but that’s because of superior trial management, not secret vaccine sauce. For now, they are harder and more expensive to manufacture and distribute than traditional types of vaccines, and their side effects are more common and more severe.

Hardline vaccine proponents continue to disregard any evidence that threatens their ironclad mantra that "the vaccines are safe". I'll be the first to admit, we don't know the real rates of the adverse effects yet, and it's likely that the rates for these adverse outcomes will be very low, but there's mounting evidence that these effects discussed above are linked to the vaccines.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

cow451

Standing with Ukraine.
Site Supporter
May 29, 2012
41,108
24,135
Hot and Humid
✟1,120,486.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Senator Ron Johnson held a press conference on the injuries sustained by many people after they got the Covid shots. I am posting this for anyone who is interested in hearing the accounts of those injuries from the very people who have experienced them. It is not easy to listen to, but very informative.
This video is over an hour long, but if you want to skip directly to the testimonies from the people, it starts at exactly 13:00 minutes.
I don't expect Youtube will allow this video to remain on their site for very long, so either watch it right away, or save it to watch later.
How many people testify that they were injured. Since you watched the tape you can tell us that. And what are they claiming as injuries?
 
Upvote 0

iluvatar5150

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2012
29,984
29,722
Baltimore
✟798,798.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
I already did. I also posted the video so people wouldn't have to take my word for it.

The only thing you’ve written in this thread that could remotely qualify as a summary is the first sentence of your OP:

“Senator Ron Johnson held a press conference on the injuries sustained by many people after they got the Covid shots. ”

That’s it. The rest of your comments are just arguing with people. Do you even understand your video enough to explain it to people? @whatbogsends did a better job of getting into the meat of it in post 22.
 
Upvote 0

cow451

Standing with Ukraine.
Site Supporter
May 29, 2012
41,108
24,135
Hot and Humid
✟1,120,486.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Are you claiming that the people who were there testifying what happened to them are all liars?
Are you claiming scientists, public officials, etc are lying?
 
  • Like
Reactions: iluvatar5150
Upvote 0

loveofourlord

Newbie
Feb 15, 2014
9,133
5,092
✟325,835.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Senator Ron Johnson held a press conference on the injuries sustained by many people after they got the Covid shots. I am posting this for anyone who is interested in hearing the accounts of those injuries from the very people who have experienced them. It is not easy to listen to, but very informative.
This video is over an hour long, but if you want to skip directly to the testimonies from the people, it starts at exactly 13:00 minutes.
I don't expect Youtube will allow this video to remain on their site for very long, so either watch it right away, or save it to watch later.

The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data.
 
Upvote 0

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
43,305
13,705
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟890,535.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data.

Do you then dismiss the testimony of those who are suffering the consequences of following the CDC guidelines and getting the shot?
 
Upvote 0

cow451

Standing with Ukraine.
Site Supporter
May 29, 2012
41,108
24,135
Hot and Humid
✟1,120,486.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Do you then dismiss the testimony of those who are suffering the consequences of following the CDC guidelines and getting the shot?
Putting these anecdotes in context is simply putting them in context.. period.
 
Upvote 0

loveofourlord

Newbie
Feb 15, 2014
9,133
5,092
✟325,835.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Do you then dismiss the testimony of those who are suffering the consequences of following the CDC guidelines and getting the shot?

Yes I do, because people are wrong, they lie, they are mistaken, and so on. Thats what panels are for, to verify if yes the headache they caused was from the vaccine, and not from the beer they drank the night before. Your appeal to anecdote puts you in the same catagory as homeopaths and acupunturists. Without someone looking at the data and verify it's completly useless.
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
33,672
20,947
Orlando, Florida
✟1,532,959.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Sen. Johson should be ashamed for exploiting peoples suffering for political gain. But then again, I'm not surprised the Right stoops to that level. They have for years.
 
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
14,780
6,669
Massachusetts
✟657,671.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Senator Johnson starts by saying he has had flu shots, and the COVID vaccinations have saved many lives and reduced the spread. And he says most people have not have big problems with their COVID vaccinations.

But, he says, this is not proof that the vaccine is 100% safe. And it appears there are medial problems which have been clustering after vaccinations.

He says he has people who claimed they had trouble after the vaccine; but when they reported this, they were treated badly, they say, not taken seriously.

So, I see, the concern he expresses is about how people are being treated when they report problems.

I think that even if I was certain a person was making things up, still I need to treat the person right. I see that this could be the main point of the video . . . not only about if vaccines are safe, but if people claiming problems have been treated fairly.

@Hans Blaster > I agree with your idea that each case needs to be evaluated scientifically. But > if people report suspected vaccination reaction trouble to unfair people, you can't expect their cases to be handled in a scientific way and according to proper statistical procedure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aldebaran
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
14,780
6,669
Massachusetts
✟657,671.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
At 8:55 on the video, Ken says "many" of his people giving testimonies are medical professionals . . . who were in the first wave of vaccinations. They are pro-vaccine, and pro-science, but concerned that they have been treated badly when they reported their problems.

So, it seems to me this video is not aimed at trying to discredit vaccines, but there is concern about how people get treated if they claim a suspected bad reaction to a vaccine.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: whatbogsends
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
14,780
6,669
Massachusetts
✟657,671.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
At 12:56 on the video, they play parts of what different people say. One thing that stuck out to me was how one person had not been believed, but then she discovered others who had had similar experiences.

But . . . maybe . . . each person was isolated from the others, so each one's caretakers were not aware there were other similar cases.

One possibility is that someone could have a bizarre medical reaction in some location, but it can seem not connected to the vaccine, since it is rare and therefore not well-known to be a possibly result of one of the vaccines. And because the rare side effects have not been documented and connected, the local medical people can think a person is making things up or misunderstanding things.
 
Upvote 0

durangodawood

re Member
Aug 28, 2007
27,995
19,631
Colorado
✟547,170.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Do you then dismiss the testimony of those who are suffering the consequences of following the CDC guidelines and getting the shot?
It was a discussion on more than anecdotal data. He also referenced this op-ed written by two doctors in the Wall Street Journal:

The database can’t say what would have happened in the absence of vaccination. Nonetheless, the large clustering of certain adverse events immediately after vaccination is concerning, and the silence around these potential signals of harm reflects the politics surrounding Covid-19 vaccines. Stigmatizing such concerns is bad for scientific integrity and could harm patients.

Four serious adverse events follow this arc, according to data taken directly from Vaers: low platelets (thrombocytopenia); noninfectious myocarditis, or heart inflammation, especially for those under 30; deep-vein thrombosis; and death. Vaers records 321 cases of myocarditis within five days of receiving a vaccination, falling to almost zero by 10 days. Prior research has shown that only a fraction of adverse events are reported, so the true number of cases is almost certainly higher. This tendency of underreporting is consistent with our clinical experience.

Analyses to confirm or dismiss these findings should be performed using large data sets of health-insurance companies and healthcare organizations. The CDC and FDA are surely aware of these data patterns, yet neither agency has acknowledged the trend.


Dr. Ladapo is an associate professor of medicine at UCLA’s David Geffen School of Medicine. Dr. Risch is a professor of epidemiology at Yale School of Public Health.

Are Covid Vaccines Riskier Than Advertised? - The Wall Street Journal - Newsfeed (newsfeeds.media)

(i didn't link directly to WSJ due to paywall)

Myocarditis and thrombosis are now well documented and listed as side effects by the CDC. Thrombocytopenia has also been reported and is being investigated.

This study generally refers to thrombocytopenia as a side effect of AstraZenica, but what i've read leads me to believe it will be applicable to some of the other vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) as well.

No major safety warnings, other than rare cases of anaphylaxis, were reported in the initial trials, which involved tens of thousands of adults, and the risk of serious adverse effects has remained remarkably low after vaccination of more than 400 million people worldwide to date.1 It is not surprising, however, that new reports of adverse events have emerged as many additional people are vaccinated and follow-up is extended. For example, cases of immune thrombocytopenia and bleeding without thrombosis that were induced or revealed after exposure to the messenger RNA (mRNA)–based vaccines produced by Moderna (mRNA-1273) and Pfizer–BioNTech (BNT162b2) have been reported.2

The Journal has now highlighted three independent descriptions of 39 persons with a newly described syndrome characterized by thrombosis and thrombocytopenia that developed 5 to 24 days after initial vaccination with ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 (AstraZeneca), a recombinant chimpanzee adenoviral vector encoding the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2.3-5 These persons were healthy or in medically stable condition, and very few were known to have had previous thrombosis or a preexisting prothrombotic condition. Most of the patients included in these reports were women younger than 50 years of age, some of whom were receiving estrogen-replacement therapy or oral contraceptives. A remarkably high percentage of the patients had thromboses at unusual sites — specifically, cerebral venous sinus thrombosis or thrombosis in the portal, splanchnic, or hepatic veins. Other patients presented with deep venous thrombi, pulmonary emboli, or acute arterial thromboses. The median platelet counts at diagnosis were approximately 20,000 to 30,000 per cubic millimeter (range, approximately 10,000 to 110,000), but the rate of decline in platelet counts that preceded thrombosis is unknown. High levels of d-dimers and low levels of fibrinogen were common and suggest systemic activation of coagulation. Approximately 40% of the patients died, some from ischemic brain injury, superimposed hemorrhage, or both conditions, often after anticoagulation.
...
No thrombotic signal was detected in clinical trials leading to the approval of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine,9 which has now been administered to 34 million people worldwide. The incidence of VITT, as initially estimated, is perhaps 1 case per 100,000 exposures. This should be considered in the context of the incidence of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis in the general population (estimated at 0.22 to 1.57 cases per 100,000 per year). The initial focus of these reports may reflect a propensity to study patients with severe thrombosis occurring in unusual locations, and a more complete picture of thrombotic complications is likely to emerge over time. More information on potential risk factors other than young age and female sex is needed. Also needed are data on the prevalence and titer of anti-PF4–related antibodies in all vaccine recipients, especially those who had thrombosis at sites other than those commonly reported to date among patients with VITT, in order to apply Bayesian analyses to estimate disease probability on the basis of both clinical features and antibody titer in optimized assays. This may be complicated to achieve, because many cases of thrombosis that occur after vaccination are unlikely to be directly provoked by this exposure. Better understanding of how the vaccine induces these platelet-activating antibodies might also provide insight into the duration of antigen exposure and the risk of reoccurrence of thrombosis, which will inform the need for extended anticoagulation and might lead to improvements in vaccine design.

SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine–Induced Immune Thrombotic Thrombocytopenia | NEJM

Even The Atlantic has begun to acknowledge the seriousness of the side-effects of the vaccines, although it was an aside in an article about a non-vaccination treatment for Covid:

If the FDA sees no urgency, the Novavax vaccine might not be available in the U.S. for months, and in the meantime the national supply of other doses exceeds demand. But the asymmetry in coverage also hints at how the hype around the early-bird vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna has distorted perception. Their rapid arrival has been described in this magazine as “the triumph of mRNA”—a brand-new vaccine technology whose “potential stretches far beyond this pandemic.” Other outlets gushed about “a turning point in the long history of vaccines,” one that “changed biotech forever.” It was easy to assume, based on all this reporting, that mRNA vaccines had already proved to be the most effective ones you could get—that they were better, sleeker, even cooler than any other vaccines could ever be.
...
These two particular mRNA vaccines may have been the first to get results from Phase 3 clinical trials, but that’s because of superior trial management, not secret vaccine sauce. For now, they are harder and more expensive to manufacture and distribute than traditional types of vaccines, and their side effects are more common and more severe.

Hardline vaccine proponents continue to disregard any evidence that threatens their ironclad mantra that "the vaccines are safe". I'll be the first to admit, we don't know the real rates of the adverse effects yet, and it's likely that the rates for these adverse outcomes will be very low, but there's mounting evidence that these effects discussed above are linked to the vaccines.
I'm all for proper analysis of vaccine safety. But a litany of anecdotes is worse than nothing. It's just fear without understanding.
 
Upvote 0

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
43,305
13,705
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟890,535.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Yes I do, because people are wrong, they lie, they are mistaken, and so on. Thats what panels are for, to verify if yes the headache they caused was from the vaccine, and not from the beer they drank the night before. Your appeal to anecdote puts you in the same catagory as homeopaths and acupunturists. Without someone looking at the data and verify it's completly useless.

Clearly, you still haven't watched the video. If you did, I doubt you'd be so quick to label those who have suffered so much as liars. Doing so does not show much love for our lord.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IntriKate
Upvote 0

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
43,305
13,705
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟890,535.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Sen. Johson should be ashamed for exploiting peoples suffering for political gain. But then again, I'm not surprised the Right stoops to that level. They have for years.

He provided a place where people who are suffering can have a voice. I keep forgetting that's only something politicians of the other party are allowed to do for their constituents.
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
33,672
20,947
Orlando, Florida
✟1,532,959.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
He provided a place where people who are suffering can have a voice. I keep forgetting that's only something politicians of the other party are allowed to do for their constituents.

It's a disinformation campaign meant to placate his ignorant base and make them feel validated in their vaccine hesitancy.
 
Upvote 0

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
43,305
13,705
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟890,535.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
I'm all for proper analysis of vaccine safety. But a litany of anecdotes is worse than nothing. It's just fear without understanding.

Sounds like any of the sources that like to silence those who wish to speak about their personal experiences.
 
Upvote 0

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
43,305
13,705
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟890,535.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
It's a disinformation campaign meant to placate his ignorant base and make them feel validated in their vaccine hesitancy.

That's a very hateful way to label people who are suffering and want to let others know how they've been treated by the experts in the medical field. Why are you so hateful of those who simply wish to speak about their experiences? Would you like them to just stay silent and suffer in silence?
 
  • Like
Reactions: IntriKate
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
33,672
20,947
Orlando, Florida
✟1,532,959.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Sounds like any of the sources that like to silence those who wish to speak about their personal experiences.

That's just garbage. Demanding real scientific evidence, and not mere anecdotes, is not "silencing" anyone.

Do you even understand anything about statistics? Side effects from the vaccines are extremely rare (there has been only one death due to blood clots in the entire US that can be linked positively to vaccination with an mRNA vaccine, and that was in an elderly man in the northeast), much rarer than the real effects of COVID itself.
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
33,672
20,947
Orlando, Florida
✟1,532,959.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
That's a very hateful way to label people who are suffering and want to let others know how they've been treated by the experts in the medical field. Why are you so hateful of those who simply wish to speak about their experiences? Would you like them to just stay silent and suffer in silence?

Why are you promoting anti-vax propaganda? Do you want to have blood on your hands? Do you think your Savior will absolve you of that?
 
Upvote 0