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Vaccination injury testimony from many individuals

FireDragon76

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That's a very hateful way to label people who are suffering and want to let others know how they've been treated by the experts in the medical field. Why are you so hateful of those who simply wish to speak about their experiences? Would you like them to just stay silent and suffer in silence?

I would hope they would seek out crisis counseling and get real help, and not be manipulated by a man that cares only about furthering a very damaging agenda that will get people killed needlessly.
 
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Aldebaran

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That's just garbage. Demanding real scientific evidence, and not mere anecdotes, is not "silencing" anyone.

Do you even understand anything about statistics? Side effects from the vaccines are extremely rare (there has been only one death due to blood clots in the entire US that can be linked positively to vaccination with an mRNA vaccine, and that was in an elderly man in the northeast), much rarer than the real effects of COVID itself.

Statistics are numbers on paper.
"Anecdotes" are experienced by actual people.
 
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Aldebaran

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Why are you promoting anti-vax propaganda? Do you want to have blood on your hands? Do you think your Savior will absolve you of that?

Better than to ignore the suffering people have experienced and been told that they're lying about it, or that it's all in their head.
 
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FireDragon76

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It was a discussion on more than anecdotal data. He also referenced this op-ed written by two doctors in the Wall Street Journal:

The database can’t say what would have happened in the absence of vaccination. Nonetheless, the large clustering of certain adverse events immediately after vaccination is concerning, and the silence around these potential signals of harm reflects the politics surrounding Covid-19 vaccines. Stigmatizing such concerns is bad for scientific integrity and could harm patients.

Four serious adverse events follow this arc, according to data taken directly from Vaers: low platelets (thrombocytopenia); noninfectious myocarditis, or heart inflammation, especially for those under 30; deep-vein thrombosis; and death. Vaers records 321 cases of myocarditis within five days of receiving a vaccination, falling to almost zero by 10 days. Prior research has shown that only a fraction of adverse events are reported, so the true number of cases is almost certainly higher. This tendency of underreporting is consistent with our clinical experience.

Analyses to confirm or dismiss these findings should be performed using large data sets of health-insurance companies and healthcare organizations. The CDC and FDA are surely aware of these data patterns, yet neither agency has acknowledged the trend.


Dr. Ladapo is an associate professor of medicine at UCLA’s David Geffen School of Medicine. Dr. Risch is a professor of epidemiology at Yale School of Public Health.

Are Covid Vaccines Riskier Than Advertised? - The Wall Street Journal - Newsfeed (newsfeeds.media)

(i didn't link directly to WSJ due to paywall)

Myocarditis and thrombosis are now well documented and listed as side effects by the CDC. Thrombocytopenia has also been reported and is being investigated.

This study generally refers to thrombocytopenia as a side effect of AstraZenica, but what i've read leads me to believe it will be applicable to some of the other vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) as well.

No major safety warnings, other than rare cases of anaphylaxis, were reported in the initial trials, which involved tens of thousands of adults, and the risk of serious adverse effects has remained remarkably low after vaccination of more than 400 million people worldwide to date.1 It is not surprising, however, that new reports of adverse events have emerged as many additional people are vaccinated and follow-up is extended. For example, cases of immune thrombocytopenia and bleeding without thrombosis that were induced or revealed after exposure to the messenger RNA (mRNA)–based vaccines produced by Moderna (mRNA-1273) and Pfizer–BioNTech (BNT162b2) have been reported.2

The Journal has now highlighted three independent descriptions of 39 persons with a newly described syndrome characterized by thrombosis and thrombocytopenia that developed 5 to 24 days after initial vaccination with ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 (AstraZeneca), a recombinant chimpanzee adenoviral vector encoding the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2.3-5 These persons were healthy or in medically stable condition, and very few were known to have had previous thrombosis or a preexisting prothrombotic condition. Most of the patients included in these reports were women younger than 50 years of age, some of whom were receiving estrogen-replacement therapy or oral contraceptives. A remarkably high percentage of the patients had thromboses at unusual sites — specifically, cerebral venous sinus thrombosis or thrombosis in the portal, splanchnic, or hepatic veins. Other patients presented with deep venous thrombi, pulmonary emboli, or acute arterial thromboses. The median platelet counts at diagnosis were approximately 20,000 to 30,000 per cubic millimeter (range, approximately 10,000 to 110,000), but the rate of decline in platelet counts that preceded thrombosis is unknown. High levels of d-dimers and low levels of fibrinogen were common and suggest systemic activation of coagulation. Approximately 40% of the patients died, some from ischemic brain injury, superimposed hemorrhage, or both conditions, often after anticoagulation.
...
No thrombotic signal was detected in clinical trials leading to the approval of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine,9 which has now been administered to 34 million people worldwide. The incidence of VITT, as initially estimated, is perhaps 1 case per 100,000 exposures. This should be considered in the context of the incidence of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis in the general population (estimated at 0.22 to 1.57 cases per 100,000 per year). The initial focus of these reports may reflect a propensity to study patients with severe thrombosis occurring in unusual locations, and a more complete picture of thrombotic complications is likely to emerge over time. More information on potential risk factors other than young age and female sex is needed. Also needed are data on the prevalence and titer of anti-PF4–related antibodies in all vaccine recipients, especially those who had thrombosis at sites other than those commonly reported to date among patients with VITT, in order to apply Bayesian analyses to estimate disease probability on the basis of both clinical features and antibody titer in optimized assays. This may be complicated to achieve, because many cases of thrombosis that occur after vaccination are unlikely to be directly provoked by this exposure. Better understanding of how the vaccine induces these platelet-activating antibodies might also provide insight into the duration of antigen exposure and the risk of reoccurrence of thrombosis, which will inform the need for extended anticoagulation and might lead to improvements in vaccine design.

SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine–Induced Immune Thrombotic Thrombocytopenia | NEJM

Even The Atlantic has begun to acknowledge the seriousness of the side-effects of the vaccines, although it was an aside in an article about a non-vaccination treatment for Covid:

If the FDA sees no urgency, the Novavax vaccine might not be available in the U.S. for months, and in the meantime the national supply of other doses exceeds demand. But the asymmetry in coverage also hints at how the hype around the early-bird vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna has distorted perception. Their rapid arrival has been described in this magazine as “the triumph of mRNA”—a brand-new vaccine technology whose “potential stretches far beyond this pandemic.” Other outlets gushed about “a turning point in the long history of vaccines,” one that “changed biotech forever.” It was easy to assume, based on all this reporting, that mRNA vaccines had already proved to be the most effective ones you could get—that they were better, sleeker, even cooler than any other vaccines could ever be.
...
These two particular mRNA vaccines may have been the first to get results from Phase 3 clinical trials, but that’s because of superior trial management, not secret vaccine sauce. For now, they are harder and more expensive to manufacture and distribute than traditional types of vaccines, and their side effects are more common and more severe.

Hardline vaccine proponents continue to disregard any evidence that threatens their ironclad mantra that "the vaccines are safe". I'll be the first to admit, we don't know the real rates of the adverse effects yet, and it's likely that the rates for these adverse outcomes will be very low, but there's mounting evidence that these effects discussed above are linked to the vaccines.

You do realize that statistically, the vaccine is safer than many drugs like asprin that you can buy at a pharmacy?

Otherwise, I agree that there is alot of hype around mRNA vaccines, and that they are difficult to manufacture and store (which is especially pertinent given the need right now that exists in Africa and India). But that doesn't discount their relative safety.
 
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FireDragon76

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Statistics are numbers on paper.

That's a truly ignorant statement. Statistics are used in drug trials and in medicine all the time.

Let me guess, though, you don't believe in medicine...
 
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FireDragon76

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Better than to ignore the suffering people have experienced and been told that they're lying about it, or that it's all in their head.

I never said anything like that. Shame on you for implying otherwise.
 
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Aldebaran

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I would hope they would seek out crisis counseling and get real help, and not be manipulated by a man that cares only about furthering a very damaging agenda that will get people killed needlessly.

Try watching the video from the 31:41 point since you're so unwilling to view any other part. The fake "manipulation" you speak so much about is only of those who refuse to face what is happening to these people. Yes, that would be the deniers that would rather look the other way as they continue the "get the shot" narrative.
 
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FireDragon76

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This senator is spinning nothing but propaganda and misleading people. In the video he touts the "safety" of drugs like hydroxychloroquine, which is known to cause vision loss with prolonged usage. He also mentions ivermectin, a drug that can cause liver damage and a fatal skin rash. All those drugs maim people, but here he is implying the vaccine is problematic in a way that they aren't. That's dishonest.
 
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Aldebaran

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That's a truly ignorant statement. Statistics are used in drug trials and in medicine all the time.

Let me guess, though, you don't believe in medicine...

Statistics are also what people who are being exploited by the government and big pharma end up becoming after suffering the consequences of following the chosen narrative.
 
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Aldebaran

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This senator is spinning nothing but propaganda and misleading people. In the video he touts the "safety" of drugs like hydroxychloroquine, which is known to cause vision loss with prolonged usage. He also mentions ivermectin, a drug that can cause liver damage and a fatal skin rash. All those drugs maim people, but here he is implying the vaccine is problematic in a way that they aren't. That's dishonest.

Do you honestly care about vision loss, liver damage or skin rashes? If you did, then you'd care about the multitude of health problems people have gotten as a result of getting the covid shot. Skip to 33:05 to find out what a young girl has experienced.
 
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FireDragon76

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Try watching the video from the 31:41 point since you're so unwilling to view any other part. The fake "manipulation" you speak so much about is only of those who refuse to face what is happening to these people. Yes, that would be the deniers that would rather look the other way as they continue the "get the shot" narrative.

People should follow medical advice and get the vaccine
Try watching the video from the 31:41 point since you're so unwilling to view any other part. The fake "manipulation" you speak so much about is only of those who refuse to face what is happening to these people. Yes, that would be the deniers that would rather look the other way as they continue the "get the shot" narrative.

It's anecdotes, not statistics. You can't speak of causality without evidence for that causality. Post hoc ergo propter hoc is a fallacy, after all. Just because you take a vaccine and get sick afterwards does not mean the vaccine made you sick.
 
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FireDragon76

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Do you honestly care about vision loss, liver damage or skin rashes?

Of course I do.

If you did, then you'd care about the multitude of health problems people have gotten as a result of getting the covid shot. Skip to 33:05 to find out what a young girl has experienced.

I care more about the millions of cases of people who aren't in the ICU because of the vaccine.
 
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Aldebaran

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People should follow medical advice and get the vaccine

Only if they want to take that risk.

It's anecdotes, not statistics. You can't speak of causality without evidence for that causality. Post hoc ergo propter hoc is a fallacy, after all. Just because you take a vaccine and get sick afterwards does not mean the vaccine made you sick.

As long as "experts" deny that this vaccine can cause these injuries and deaths, and try chalking up these injuries and deaths to mere coincidence that just happens to occur after a covid shot, don't expect any real scientific answers--only the narrative of choice at the moment.
 
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I care more about the millions of cases of people who aren't in the ICU because of the vaccine.

Oh, how thoughtful! You care more about people who aren't sick than those who are. How does your type of thinking help those who follow your advice and end up seriously injured or dead as a result?
 
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FireDragon76

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Oh, how thoughtful! You care more about people who aren't sick than those who are. How does your type of thinking help those who follow your advice and end up seriously injured or dead as a result?

Why aren't you concerned about the greater likelihood people will be maimed or killed taking your approach?
 
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Why aren't you concerned about the greater likelihood people will be maimed or killed taking your approach?

My approach is to take these injuries seriously and have them actually investigated rather than brushed aside by doctors who would rather send a person to a mental hospital rather than consider the fact that the vaccine had something to do with their injury.
It used to be the democrats that talked so much about "believing the victim". But now it seems to be only big government and big pharma that should be believed.
 
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FireDragon76

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My approach is to take these injuries seriously and have them actually investigated rather than brushed aside by doctors who would rather send a person to a mental hospital rather than consider the fact that the vaccine had something to do with their injury.

Where have I ever said that side-effects should be discounted? It's simply not a reason to avoid vaccination, not unless a doctor actually advises you personally not to receive the vaccine. Anything else is frankly irresponsible and unethical.

It used to be the democrats that talked so much about "believing the victim". But now it seems to be only big government and big pharma that should be believed.

It has yet to be proven these peoples are victims, as difficult and tragic as some of these cases are. People get sick all the time, that doesn't mean a vaccine necessarily caused it.
 
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Aldebaran

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Where have I ever said that side-effects should be discounted?

Here it comes.....

It has yet to be proven these peoples are victims, as difficult and tragic as some of these cases are. People get sick all the time, that doesn't mean a vaccine necessarily caused it.

....and there's your answer.
 
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FireDragon76

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Here it comes.....



....and there's your answer.

The extraordinary claim is that these people are certainly harmed by the vaccine. That means it requires real evidence that would be accepted as scientifically valid. Post hoc ergo propter hoc is not a reasonable argument, and certainly not scientific evidence.

Anyways, it's clear I'm talking to a brick wall on this subject.
 
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KCfromNC

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The only thing you’ve written in this thread that could remotely qualify as a summary is the first sentence of your OP:

“Senator Ron Johnson held a press conference on the injuries sustained by many people after they got the Covid shots. ”

For comparison, Senator Ron Johnson also took a trip to Moscow on July 4th, 2018, and soon afterwards said that Russian interference in our elections was blown out of proportion. Some might say he's not a reliable source - or at best - he's trying to sell a certain type of product to an unfortunately receptive audience.
 
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