I'm a conservative who believes systemic racism is real

[Larniavc]

The US recently elected a black president. But I guess you ignore that one.

How boy howdy how many Americans were so enraged with a black man in office?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

How boy howdy how many Americans were so enraged with a black man in office?

HE won the election so it cannot be that many. I mean the facts say that you are dead wrong since he won. I suspect this is making up "facts" in full denial of what actually happened.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

And that is probably a good thing.

Now, who is being the racist? This whole argument about systemic racism and critical race theory is idiot. You want peace between the races then follow Christ's teachings correctly and you'll have it. We put too much time on secular problems and not enough time learning the Truth. Our country was built by a bunch of Englishmen (and a few our nationalities). They tried to form a nation that would be ideal for all (but their all was mainly other white nationalities). What they created could have worked for all of us with a few tweaks here and there in the Constitution. Through out the years some changes have been made but I'm sure we will need to add more to get it to where every man and woman of any color will feel equal and not rejected. Let's continue forward with what they started over 200 hundred years ago. Now for real equality though I feel Capitalism is not working as well and it is really not part of our Constitution. Socialism and Communism are no good either. What is needed is a new way to do business in this country. We need an economic system that pays workers fairly so they can more than survive in this country. We need an economic system that doesn't overinflate the price of goods and services so most everyone can afford the item without cause financial troubles.

Christians especially need to know God created all of us and that one person is no better than the next. That doesn't mean this person can't be better than this person at something like programming, modelling, fixing cars, managing, cooking, driving, cleaning and so on. God gave us each different skills to use but we are still equal in His eyes.

And remember, as Christians we do not live under the Old Law: An eye for an eye. We live under the New Law passed onto us by Christ: Love your neighbor. Now that doesn't mean we can break the natural laws but correct lovingly.

There's alot more to unwind but this is a start.

 

[Ophiolite]

So do you admit that you and your whole family and friends, including any of a race not yours, are systematically making decisions based on hatred of races to which they don’t belong? Is that your position?

You seem not to understand the difference (a substantial and significant difference) between systemic racism (the racism which is alleged) and universal systematic racism (which is not alleged). You might want to get your ducks in a row before you say things like R to QKn4 in a bayou bird hunt.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

The thing is, at least in American society, white lives seem to have always mattered more.

That's the thing that seems to escape people (or that they're deliberately ignoring)

The fact that there is an organization called "Black Live Matter" that bundles in a bunch of side agendas muddies the waters...

But the original sentiment is true, there have been systemic policies that have disproportionately impact certain communities more than others, and that needs to be acknowledged.

Despite the fact that I dislike BLM as an organization, I've defended the sentiment as a movement, as the "all lives matter" rebuttal is basically the equivalent of someone showing up at a breast cancer event and saying "now now, all cancers are important!"

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Institutional racism, also known as systemic racism, is a form of racism that is embedded through laws and regulations within society or an organization. It can lead to such issues as discrimination in criminal justice, employment, housing, health care, political power, and education, among other issues.

Does it exist? Yes (in all societies world-wide). In regard to the US ... What laws and regulations can be removed to get rid of it?

Many of the laws have been removed... however, the removal of the laws doesn't mean everything is "even Steven".

When it comes to education and the opportunity to build wealth, certain types of policies have a multi-generational impact, and simply saying "it's fair from now moving forward" doesn't address the issues.

If there was a boxing match, and we made one competitor wear a blindfold for the first 6 rounds and get pummeled, saying "I don't know what they're complaining about, everything's been absolutely fair from round 7 moving forward" is hardly a genuine argument.

 

[eleos1954]

Many of the laws have been removed... however, the removal of the laws doesn't mean everything is "even Steven".

When it comes to education and the opportunity to build wealth, certain types of policies have a multi-generational impact, and simply saying "it's fair from now moving forward" doesn't address the issues.

If there was a boxing match, and we made one competitor wear a blindfold for the first 6 rounds and get pummeled, saying "I don't know what they're complaining about, everything's been absolutely fair from round 7 moving forward" is hardly a genuine argument.

What are some specific examples of things that are "embedded in the system" that needs to be gotten rid of? Free education for all? What all provides one the opportunity to build wealth?

is hardly a genuine argument.

I'm not putting forth that argument .... who is?

"I don't know what they're complaining about ... it's fair from now moving forward" doesn't address the issues.

Who is saying this?
I took the definition and am asking questions ... what are the steps forward?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You seem not to understand the difference (a substantial and significant difference) between systemic racism (the racism which is alleged) and universal systematic racism (which is not alleged). You might want to get your ducks in a row before you say things like R to QKn4 in a bayou bird hunt.

That works until one has encountered real prejudice in others. Then it is shown up for what it is…babble.

Racial prejudice is seen in all races towards other races but not in all people if all races. (I’ve worked in many countries and it’s everywhere.) It is individual and can only be individually changed.

What we are told is racism with all the extra adjectives added on to bamboozle, is actually racism towards one race or even one sex in that race. It is systematic hatred of white males marketing itself as justice. Americans have a long history of being gullible, this is one more time.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Many of the laws have been removed... however, the removal of the laws doesn't mean everything is "even Steven".

When it comes to education and the opportunity to build wealth, certain types of policies have a multi-generational impact, and simply saying "it's fair from now moving forward" doesn't address the issues.

If there was a boxing match, and we made one competitor wear a blindfold for the first 6 rounds and get pummeled, saying "I don't know what they're complaining about, everything's been absolutely fair from round 7 moving forward" is hardly a genuine argument.

So you admit laws have been changed. You refuse to admit that people of ALL races have risen to build successful careers and sit in places of power and wealth today.

The problem and real danger in your preaching is some minorities believe it and have ceased doing what it makes to also reach those places believing your kind that no one can ignoring the many who did. Your preaching robs minorities of the drive to be successful. It teaches them they cannot. It is poison in the minds of brilliant young people who aren’t white males.

 

[Ophiolite]

That works until one has encountered real prejudice in others. Then it is shown up for what it is…babble.

Racial prejudice is seen in all races towards other races but not in all people if all races. (I’ve worked in many countries and it’s everywhere.) It is individual and can only be individually changed.

What we are told is racism with all the extra adjectives added on to bamboozle, is actually racism towards one race or even one sex in that race. It is systematic hatred of white males marketing itself as justice. Americans have a long history of being gullible, this is one more time.

I've seen systemic racism in practice. I've inadvertently contributed to it myself. Despite your protests, it is real.

 

[SummerMadness]

So you admit laws have been changed. You refuse to admit that people of ALL races have risen to build successful careers and sit in places of power and wealth today.

No one admitted that laws did not change. When you start a sentence off, "so you admit... <blah>" and the <blah> was not stated by anyone, you're ignoring their point or purposely attacking a strawman. The argument that has always been made is that the laws were racist, but changing the laws did not remove all the prejudice.

The problem and real danger in your preaching is some minorities believe it and have ceased doing what it makes to also reach those places believing your kind that no one can ignoring the many who did. Your preaching robs minorities of the drive to be successful. It teaches them they cannot. It is poison in the minds of brilliant young people who aren’t white males.

You are too paternalistic in your view of "minorities," you really imply that they are too stupid and too lazy to work hard and get ahead. This is one of the reasons why racism is still an issue in this country, this view that minorities are dumb people that have been hoodwinked.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No one admitted that laws did not change. When you start a sentence off, "so you admit... <blah>" and the <blah> was not stated by anyone, you're ignoring their point or purposely attacking a strawman. The argument that has always been made is that the laws were racist, but changing the laws did not remove all the prejudice.

The opening line is really so off as to be silly. No one is going to "admit" that laws have not changed since day 1 of the USA. You might want to think of a different example. It is like saying "no one admitted that the President did not change since 1776."

You are too paternalistic in your view of "minorities," you really imply that they are too stupid and too lazy to work hard and get ahead. This is one of the reasons why racism is still an issue in this country, this view that minorities are dumb people that have been hoodwinked.

You do not know which race I am from or maybe more than one. So can you please tell me WHICH race I implied are too stupid and too lazy to work hard and get ahead?

But you did establish the problem with the attack on ghost racism. It is made up of people saying other said things they never said in the least. That is, it is built on lies. It seems to accuse people of saying what they never said. That IS the problem with this theory. THis telling people that others are bigoted against them and so they need to attack them first when this is simply not true.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I've seen systemic racism in practice. I've inadvertently contributed to it myself. Despite your protests, it is real.

Please give us examples and places because I do not believe you know systemic racism when you see it. The examples I see are people lying about what others said that they never said.

 

[SummerMadness]

The opening line is really so off as to be silly. No one is going to "admit" that laws have not changed since day 1 of the USA. You might want to think of a different example. It is like saying "no one admitted that the President did not change since 1776."

And your original argument that people are somehow arguing the laws on the books are largely racist is silly. If that is not the case, clarify your point instead of veering away from your original post.

You do not know which race I am from or maybe more than one. So can you please tell me WHICH race I implied are too stupid and too lazy to work hard and get ahead?

You referred to minorities, you're referring to anyone not in the majority. And you're calling them stupid and lazy because you are saying they are being hoodwinked. Your question is irrelevant.

But you did establish the problem with the attack on ghost racism. It is made up of people saying other said things they never said in the least. That is, it is built on lies. It seems to accuse people of saying what they never said. That IS the problem with this theory. THis telling people that others are bigoted against them and so they need to attack them first when this is simply not true.

You are now just talking about a subject and ignoring what you wrote before. It's cool.

 

[SummerMadness]

Please give us examples and places because I do not believe you know systemic racism when you see it. The examples I see are people lying about what others said that they never said.

It's like people don't even bother to read the OP articles anymore...

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It's like people don't even bother to read the OP articles anymore...

I read it. Personal anecdotal. No facts, just feelings.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

So you admit laws have been changed. You refuse to admit that people of ALL races have risen to build successful careers and sit in places of power and wealth today.

The problem and real danger in your preaching is some minorities believe it and have ceased doing what it makes to also reach those places believing your kind that no one can ignoring the many who did. Your preaching robs minorities of the drive to be successful. It teaches them they cannot. It is poison in the minds of brilliant young people who aren’t white males.

I don't recall ever denying laws have changed...and it's a good thing they changed. What I'm saying is that changing laws on paper so that everything is "fair, moving forward" doesn't address all issues, and doesn't mean that we should expect everything to be even within a year or two.

In the United States, if a family is low-income, it takes, on average, 5 generations to correct for it. Which means that if any family was impacted by policies that did preclude them from building wealth within the last 5 generations, it's reasonable to assume that their descendants are still feeling the ripple effects from that.

Obviously there are exceptions to the rule.

You can find kids from poor families who end up becoming millionaires, and you can find kids who grow up in rich families who end up smoking crack. Policy-making should rely on the norms and not the exceptions.

Just because one kid ends up becoming a CEO after growing up in a low-income, single-parent family...that doesn't mean "there's nothing wrong".

 

[ThatRobGuy]

What are some specific examples of things that are "embedded in the system" that needs to be gotten rid of? Free education for all? What all provides one the opportunity to build wealth?

Based on the OECD data, things don't still have to be embedded in order to still have an impact

Anything embedded in the system within the last 5 generations is enough to still have a ripple effect for some people.

...and that concept isn't anything controversial or outlandish. If a kids parents have more money and power, they're more likely to have financial success than a kid whose parents don't.

Hunter Biden has way more money then me and got to the be a board member of an energy company.

Perfect example of generational wealth at play.

 

[ViaCrucis]

HE won the election so it cannot be that many. I mean the facts say that you are dead wrong since he won. I suspect this is making up "facts" in full denial of what actually happened.

Ah, it's sort of like how when the 13th Amendment to the US Constitution was ratified, and thus obviously nobody had a problem with abolishing slavery and everyone solved racism.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I don't recall ever denying laws have changed...and it's a good thing they changed. What I'm saying is that changing laws on paper so that everything is "fair, moving forward" doesn't address all issues, and doesn't mean that we should expect everything to be even within a year or two.

In the United States, if a family is low-income, it takes, on average, 5 generations to correct for it. Which means that if any family was impacted by policies that did preclude them from building wealth within the last 5 generations, it's reasonable to assume that their descendants are still feeling the ripple effects from that.

Obviously there are exceptions to the rule.

You can find kids from poor families who end up becoming millionaires, and you can find kids who grow up in rich families who end up smoking crack. Policy-making should rely on the norms and not the exceptions.

Just because one kid ends up becoming a CEO after growing up in a low-income, single-parent family...that doesn't mean "there's nothing wrong".

What do you expect to accomplish that doesn’t involve marxism or tyranny?