My Finch Challenge

[Dorothy Mae]

you were arguing the significance of the abbreviation to the title of a book.

And where I live plays what kind of role in that?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

That's special. And yet they all thought they were Christians. They had Bibles on the slave ships that went back and forth across the Atlantic. The slave owners went to church on Sunday. I know you don't like facts but YOU don't get to decide who is a Christian and who isn't. That's up to your God and he didn't see fit to do anything to any one of them.

You have records of what they thought? You know what they thought but you do not know what some people who live today think as evidenced by you freely admitting you cannot tell who is a christian today. This is highly unlikely. If you cannot tell who is a christian and who is not regarding the people making evil choices or not, then how do you know about the thinking of peope living over 100 years ago?

And the man who wrote Amazing Grace was a slaver and he certainly did not have a Bible on the slave ship as he became a very repentant man and quite slaving.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Well, that’s kinda how it works, buddy. Unless of course you can produce a genetic test or membership card, people who call themselves Christians, are guess what… Christians.

Now of course, I was just like you when I was a Christian, and had that spidey sense that let me recognize True Christians, but at the end of the day, it boils down to self reporting.

Whadya’ gonna’ do?

The reality of who is a christian, a follower of the teachings of Christ to some degree, is easy to see in some, easy to see who is not, and takes a lot of observation in others. Since we do not have those chances to observe most enough, we cannot really say. But the degree of wrong a person is willing to engage in without feeling is a tell tale sign.

 

[dlamberth]

The reality of who is a christian, a follower of the teachings of Christ to some degree, is easy to see in some, easy to see who is not, and takes a lot of observation in others.

Sometimes, by some of the stuff I read and hear, I sometimes wonder if Christians themselves know who is a Christian or not. For some the line is pretty clear and final. And for others it's pretty open-ended.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Sometimes, by some of the stuff I read and hear, I sometimes wonder if Christians themselves know who is a Christian or not. For some the line is pretty clear and final. And for others it's pretty open-ended.

You nailed that one pretty clearly. Because it requires some discernment, some mercy, some wisdom and generally some investment and in the end not our business many times, some take a short cut and make up rules. Abide by the rules, you are one. Break the rules, you are not one. ANd those rules are what can rightly be called outward minor points. Some examples are drinking alcohol at all (which Jesus was judged by), going to a church gathering every Sunday, easy stuff. No one judges another by the standard of having mercy or being generous or kind. That is the hard stuff to do.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Thank you.

For the record, the reason I'm so critical of and/or disillusioned by ID, is precisely from reading a lot of ID literature.

I am deeply tempted to respond to you as the evolutionists respond so very often respond to my disbelief in their view, perhaps it is because you do not understand it, but I won't.

 

[VirOptimus]

I am deeply tempted to respond to you as the evolutionists respond so very often respond to my disbelief in their view, perhaps it is because you do not understand it, but I won't.

Belief has nothing to do with the ToE, its science.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Belief has nothing to do with the ToE, its science.

Since many of the answers given to problems in the theory are “evolution did it“ with no science, it’s a faith.

 

[VirOptimus]

Since many of the answers given to problems in the theory are “evolution did it“ with science, it’s a faith.

No, thats not how it works.

Learn the basics.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No, thats not how it works.

Learn the basics.

No, I made a typo. If we went into a discussion about it and I ask questions, the answer will eventually the “god of the gaps” evolution did without any science. This is extremely common as the actual reason is a belief in a mindless unguided process that produces unbelievable complexity and interdependent function never ever seen in real science. So the only answer is “we believe evolution did it but don’t ask us for a rational reason.”

 

[VirOptimus]

No, I made a typo. If we went into a discussion about it and I ask questions, the answer will eventually the “god of the gaps” evolution did without any science. This is extremely common as the actual reason is a belief in a mindless unguided process that produces unbelievable complexity and interdependent function never ever seen in real science. So the only answer is “we believe evolution did it but don’t ask us for a rational reason.”

Thats not how the ToE works (or science in general). Sceince is not a faith, science is a tool to describe and understand physical reality.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Thats not how the ToE works (or science in general). Sceince is not a faith, science is a tool to describe and understand physical reality.

I know the theory. I know the scientific method. And I know many evolution believers will give you the anti-science answer of “evolution did it” with no scientific answer to the question asked, just faith.

 

[VirOptimus]

I know the theory. I know the scientific method. And I know many evolution believers will give you the anti-science answer of “evolution did it” with no scientific answer to the question asked, just faith.

No, you obviously dont understand the ToE or even basic science.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No, you obviously dont understand the ToE or even basic science.

This is one of the two answers those who believe in evolution say. If one sees the scientific problems in the theory, the answer by non-scientists, avid adherents, is “you don’t understand” and eventually “evolution did it.” The is just about always what is said and never backed up by explanation.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Thats not how the ToE works (or science in general). Sceince is not a faith, science is a tool to describe and understand physical reality.

True, but that is how many evolution believers talk. The need for rational scientific answers is not necessary for most believers in evolution judging by their talk.

 

[VirOptimus]

This is one of the two answers those who believe in evolution say. If one sees the scientific problems in the theory, the answer by non-scientists, avid adherents, is “you don’t understand” and eventually “evolution did it.” The is just about always what is said and never backed up by explanation.

We are not responsible for your education.

 

[VirOptimus]

True, but that is how many evolution believers talk.

Evolution beliver? What exactly is that?

 

[Bungle_Bear]

This is one of the two answers those who believe in evolution say. If one sees the scientific problems in the theory, the answer by non-scientists, avid adherents, is “you don’t understand” and eventually “evolution did it.” The is just about always what is said and never backed up by explanation.

Nobody ever claims "evolution did it". Attacking strawman arguments is an extremely well-evidenced example of the failings of those who do not understand evolution.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

We are not responsible for your education.

You obviously cannot explain it.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Nobody ever claims "evolution did it". Attacking strawman arguments is an extremely well-evidenced example of the failings of those who do not understand evolution.

It wouldn’t take long to read that answer from someone here so you are very wrong, it’s a common answer.