The strongest argument for the existence of God

[InterestedAtheist]

You think what you want.

I think you got in too deep and made claims without thinking them through.

 

[AV1611VET]

Under the rules of equality, Islam is no better or worse than Christianity.

Then the rules of equality can take a hike.

 

[AV1611VET]

I think you got in too deep and made claims without thinking them through.

LOL ... I've been making those claims when you were probably in diapers.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Why do you say that?

Those who were being Christ-like would not have participated in the Crusades.

Because they did.

The only reason they weren't being Christ-like was because they didn't know how to be -- they couldn't read the Bible (literacy being uncommon back in the day) and took bad advice from the people who could.

Clearly the Bible wasn't much of an influence on the literate... and the literate were too much of an influence on the illiterate.

Do you think Paul would have?

If he had an army to back him up? In a Tarsus minute.

We already know of his clashes with James and the Jerusalem Christians over what direction Christianity should take -- James et al. wanted to keep it in Jerusalem; Paul wanted to minister to the gentiles, so conversion was part of his agenda (we also know that Paul's view prevailed mainly by default after the Romans stomped Jerusalem flat). We know Paul didn't handle failure or rejection well -- certainly not when he got chased out of Thessalonia, Berea, and Antioch... you think he would've taken that with a smile if he had some muscle on his side?

Because I don't.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Apply that to the Crusaders and tell me if, in your opinion, they were being true to 1 John 4:16.

They weren't being true to God; who cares about 1 John 4:16?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Then the rules of equality can take a hike.

And God along with them, I guess.

 

[TLK Valentine]

LOL ... I've been making those claims when you were probably in diapers.

A long time to enshrine error...

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Yes. If I was a Muslim, and I believed the Koran, I would have supported 9/11.

Islam is a convert-or-die religion, and the United States is considered "the Great Satan."

Ditto for Shoko Asahara, who worshipped Shiva, the god of destruction. I'm aware of that.

And I'm also aware that that is the standard college interpretation.

But in reality, it was done contrary to the Bible's teachings; not with respect to It.

Yeah, Christians that do things you disagree with are not true Christians. Well ok.

Also, I never learned anything about religion in college.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Under the rules of equality, Islam is no better or worse than Christianity.

You keep referring to the "rules of equality" Can you refer me to where the entire rules are so I can read them myself? Or post them here?

 

[AV1611VET]

Yeah, Christians that do things you disagree with are not true Christians. Well ok.

So you agree with the Crusades, do you?

Also, I never learned anything about religion in college.

Because you already knew it?

 

[Matt5]

Why cannot they be questioned?

It depends. There is the risk of job termination. One may get thrown off of social media.

Well that is not what a lot of us atheists think. To me it means equal opportunity for everyone. Not equal outcomes.

Is equal pay for women about opportunity or about outcome?

Note that the pay gap has been debunked as due to different choices women make. So why the continued lying?

So what? I can name many movies where bad is punished and good is rewarded.

There is a fuzziness about good and bad in characters in a movie. Badness tends to come from external events.

I teach my kids what is right and wrong I don't let movies do that. Do you really think kids get the Moana reference you made above? No.

Agreed, but over time badness gets fuzzy.

I don't care what Jesus said until you can demonstrate he said them and that they are relevant.

This article was really meant for Christians. So I get it that you don't care about what Jesus said.

That is not happening. We have reduced our nuclear weapons but maintain 4000 of them. More than enough to destroy everyone on the planet.

The New START treaty limits deployed warheads to 1,550. The excess warheads have no delivery vehicle. 2/3rds of our warheads can be destroyed in a Pearl Harbor style surprise attack. The US can respond one time then have nothing left. The Russian and Chinese people can wait in their shelters for 30 days then come out to a world minus the US.

Women can do whatever they want with their lives. You or I don't get to say what they are doing is right or wrong. That is true freedom and equality. Women's purpose is not to provide babies. They have that choice if they want to or not. This kind of shaming them because they want a career instead of a child is immoral.

They can do what they want but there will be consequences, like waking up to a new country one day. Actually, that day has already arrived.

Then why are the wealthy getting richer and the poor getting poorer?

Generally, the rich should get richer and the poor should get richer. That's not happening because of government policies. When there is a recession the government should do nothing. That way all those rich people who made bad decisions can go out of business. Instead, they remain in business and continue working their magic.

Another government policy that is a big problem is trade/globalization. Trade benefits the corporations while the fallout shifts to the people. Fallout is like jobs moving out of the country, or the COVID-19 pandemic.

Well if God will make it happen then stop blaming everyone else and start blaming your God. I don't have a religion of equality, what you have stated above is a dangerous strawman that will breed division and violence. But hey, I guess your God is the architect of it so now I can blame your God for all the bad in our society.

God is not making it happen. He's responding to us. We had a chance to turn it around at 9/11 but we didn't. Now we're trouble. Lots of concern about war with China.

 

[Matt5]

You keep referring to the "rules of equality" Can you refer me to where the entire rules are so I can read them myself? Or post them here?

The problem here is like speaking another language. Natives just know how to do it. Anybody else has to have the rules. I have been working on the rules for years after going crazy trying to figure out how progressives think.

Let me see track down what I have written down.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Why cannot they be questioned?

It depends. There is the risk of job termination. One may get thrown off of social media.

That has nothing to do with questioning equality, but with challenging inequality.

Your boss owns your labor, and can toss you out and replace you whenever he chooses.
The social media platforms choose who they can allow on the networks they built and maintain -- they are not obligated to allow you access to their stuff.

Mess with them at your own peril.

God is not making it happen. He's responding to us. We had a chance to turn it around at 9/11 but we didn't. Now we're trouble. Lots of concern about war with China.

You must be quite powerful to force God's hand...

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

So you agree with the Crusades, do you?

No

Because you already knew it?

No, because they never taught me about religion or if God existed etc.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Why cannot they be questioned?

It depends. There is the risk of job termination. One may get thrown off of social media.

It depends on what the rules are of your job. You can say whatever you want but a company can fire you for being a detriment to their bottom line because of what you say or do.

Well that is not what a lot of us atheists think. To me it means equal opportunity for everyone. Not equal outcomes.

Is equal pay for women about opportunity or about outcome?

Note that the pay gap has been debunked as due to different choices women make. So why the continued lying?

I don't think women should get equal pay because they are women but because they are doing the same job with the same credentials and ability that a man is/can do. You are continuing to assume all atheist agree on everything. That is a huge mistake.

That is not happening. We have reduced our nuclear weapons but maintain 4000 of them. More than enough to destroy everyone on the planet.

The New START treaty limits deployed warheads to 1,550. The excess warheads have no delivery vehicle. 2/3rds of our warheads can be destroyed in a Pearl Harbor style surprise attack. The US can respond one time then have nothing left. The Russian and Chinese people can wait in their shelters for 30 days then come out to a world minus the US.

So you want us to use our nuclear weapons?

Women can do whatever they want with their lives. You or I don't get to say what they are doing is right or wrong. That is true freedom and equality. Women's purpose is not to provide babies. They have that choice if they want to or not. This kind of shaming them because they want a career instead of a child is immoral.

They can do what they want but there will be consequences, like waking up to a new country one day. Actually, that day has already arrived.

And you blame the women for it huh.

Well if God will make it happen then stop blaming everyone else and start blaming your God. I don't have a religion of equality, what you have stated above is a dangerous strawman that will breed division and violence. But hey, I guess your God is the architect of it so now I can blame your God for all the bad in our society.

God is not making it happen. He's responding to us. We had a chance to turn it around at 9/11 but we didn't. Now we're trouble. Lots of concern about war with China.

You actually said God will make it happen.

 

[AV1611VET]

No, because they never taught me about religion or if God existed etc.

Then no wonder you think the Crusades were Biblical.

And if you had been taught it in college, you would definitely think the Crusades were Biblical.

So either way ...

In any case, it doesn't surprise me.

Here's a list of what unbelievers think are Biblical:

1. slavery
2. the Crusades
3. the Inquisition
4. the witch trials

Did I miss anything?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Then no wonder you think the Crusades were Biblical.

And if you had been taught it in college, you would definitely think the Crusades were Biblical.

I never said if they were biblical or not. I said the people that did them thought it was biblical.

So either way ...

In any case, it doesn't surprise me.

Here's a list of what unbelievers think are Biblical:

1. slavery
2. the Crusades
3. the Inquisition
4. the witch trials

Did I miss anything?

Genocide, opposing LGBT+ people, capital punishment, misogyny, killing of babies, substitutionary atonement. There are probably more.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Those folks didn't adhere to the Biblical texts so it wasn't truly a fault of Christianity. Okay. Extend that same courtesy to things supposedly done in the name of atheism. That should be even easier to do since there is no official book of immutable atheist tenants to adhere to. If someone does anything in the name of atheism besides be unconvinced of gods, then I assure you, their motivation is something else.

 

[Matt5]

You keep referring to the "rules of equality" Can you refer me to where the entire rules are so I can read them myself? Or post them here?

"In terms of moral rules, secular humanism is indistinguishable from a religion."

Is Secular Humanism a Religion?

Postmodern Religion and the Faith of Social Justice


These are notes I've been keeping for years on modern liberalism. I want to arrive at the same answers as modern liberals - progressives:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Tenets of the Church of Equality
(My notes)

Scope of Equality: Equality within nations (equal stuff for all,) and equality between nations (immigration, globalism, climate wealth redistribution.)

1. Equal means no better or worse than something else.
2. Every person, group or nation is equal.
3. All religions are equal.
3a. Islam equals Christianity.
4. Everybody is basically good.
4b. #4 leads one to be unprepared for real threats.
5. One gets ahead by cheating or luck.
5a. The West, Israel.
5b. Nonbelievers from #5 are Nazis.
6. Anybody getting behind is a victim of #5 or society.
6a. Those in #6 are the good guys.
7. The policy of diversity does not lead to diversity.
7a. Diversity leads to equality - all groups equal.
7b. Diversity of nations means all nations look alike.
7c. Immigration is by far the most important policy of modern liberals.

Note: There is no stopping place for the equality movement until everyone has the same or similar stuff. Just think about it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's cover some of the ideas embedded within the religion of equality:

1. If everybody is equal, then how did some people get ahead? They either cheated or got lucky. Either way they don't serve it.

Imagine if you want to get ahead. So you study, work hard and doing everything right. After 20 or 30 years you lift up your family. Now you're the bad guy. Punishment is coming because you haven't paid your fair share. Success is punished.

2. If everybody is equal, then how did some people get behind? They were victimized. By whom? By society or those who got ahead. Either way it's not their fault.

Everybody always makes good choices. That's why lottery winners do so well.

3. If everybody is equal and most people are good, then people are basically good. People only act bad when they have been harmed - by society or those who got ahead.

We know how this plays out: "I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart." Anne Frank.

What about the 100 million killed under communism? But people are basically good, right?

4. Diversity is a good thing.

The promotion of diversity leads to less diversity and everything looking the same. If every group looks like every other group, that's not diversity. Now group-think can apply. So when things go wrong they go spectacularly wrong. We're seeing that now in the universities and military.

5. Equality promotes tolerance.

That's why everybody who does not believe in equality is a Nazi. I'm waiting for the re-education camps to be built up in Alaska. They are not so kind to nonbelievers. Is anything out of bounds?

6. We don't want everybody equal. We just want to be Denmark.
Did the equality movement shut down in Denmark? Or Sweden? Or anywhere there has been an equality movement?

Logically, the equality movement can't and won't shut down until everybody is equal - everybody has equal stuff. Don't believe the lies of stopping short (of equal stuff for all.) Anybody who wants to stop short just becomes a Nazi.

Notice they don't mention Venezuela. Venezuela is socialist while Denmark is not.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following is by Evan Sayet whose video below is famous in conservative circles.

THE LAWS OF MODERN LIBERALISM
(Source: KinderGarden Of Eden: How the Modern Liberal Thinks)

Indiscriminateness – the total rejection of the intellectual process – is an absolute moral imperative.
Indiscriminateness of thought does not lead to indiscriminateness of policies. It leads to siding only and always with the lesser over the better, the wrong over the right, and the evil over the good.

Modern Liberal policies occur in tandem. Each effort on behalf of the lesser is met with an equal and opposite campaign against the better.

The Modern Liberal will ascribe to the better the negative qualities associated with the lesser while concurrently ascribing to the lesser the positive qualities found in the better.

THE COROLLARIES

The Modern Liberal may have personal standards but he must deny them and militate against their use and those who use them in the public arena.

Modern Liberals do not and cannot seek to better themselves or society. Instead they must lower others and society to their level.

Modern Liberals have secondary policies that are meant only to somewhat mitigate the greater suffering that their primary policies created or exacerbated.

KinderGarden Of Eden: How the Modern Liberal Thinks

HERITAGE FOUNDATION: "How Modern Liberals Think"

 

[AV1611VET]

I never said if they were biblical or not. I said the people that did them thought it was biblical.

I already know they thought it was Biblical. They certainly didn't hide that fact. They even had crosses on their uniforms.

On the other hand, getting you guys to tell me if you agree with them that it was Biblical ... well ... that's different.

People come rushing on to the Internet to tell us the Crusades were performed by Christians, but then suddenly get lockjaw when asked if, in their opinion, it was Biblical.