Our biggest problem

[MorkandMindy]

Our nation's biggest problem or our own biggest fear, answer either question. To me they are both the same.

When I go for a medical of any sort, I never know how much it is going to cost, if I can afford it or not, whether my health insurance will pay or not.

A lot of people on CF are middle class and don't have money problems, but for those of us in the lower half of the income range just one CT scan can wipe out a year's savings. That's all it takes. As for chemotherapy the option is pretty simple, die. But it would be a shame to do that for something pretty simple.

For many people medical costs are the Sword of Damocles, something to be forever worried about, a perpetual stress to add to all the other stresses of life.

Fundamental to US economic thinking is that without fear there is no motivation to work, and though that may sound like a fabulous idea, in some cases it has gone too far.


If you think telling others about your biggest fear will help your state of mind then do it. I figured in most people's cases it would be something with a big political content so I put it in this forum.

 

[GirdYourLoins]

Here in the UK we have to rely on the NHS. Its great if you have a serious or life threatening illness, but anything else and they just dont do anything. I've been battling wiht them for years to get a proper diagnosis and treatment, but they just keep saying I dont know what you want tme to do. They're the doctor, they should be telling me what they will do. And then there's the waiting lists. I wwas referred for an appointment in November/December last year and it will be another 6 months before I get it. Ive spoken to a few people recently with similar stories. One this week who after 10 years of waiting for a joint replacement has been told her bones are now too far deteriorated to be done. Her daughter spent years in chronic pain and never got treated. When she said sshe couldnt live with the pain anymore their repsonse was to say are you suicidal, we'll refer you for pschiatric review. And her son had a chronic problem for 10 years that wasnt treated and then became cancer. Someone else I spke to lost his wife and daughter to cancer because by the time the NHS diagnosed it it was too late for both of them. The GP (general practice) doctors that are the first line medical contact are unsuitable for [ur[ose. Many areas they are so busy its virtually impossiible to get an appointment. Recently in my local area Ive read 3 people saying that older relatives have died while struggling to get an appointment. So maybe you havent got it too bad.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Yes, the NHS has it's problems. When the NHS was first set up in 1948, someone I knew who worked for one of the four IIRC private insurance companies lodged a complaint with the government demanding the right, as promised years previously, for consultants to keep beds in private rooms in public hospitals.

He won the case and from then on an increasing number of consultants went slow on their work producing waiting lists to push patients into paying to get it done a lot sooner privately for a fee.

I read about a more junior doctor who filled in for a consultant to go on holiday, and cleared so much of the waiting list in just 2 weeks that the consultant was very unhappy to discover that on his return.

It was often the same consultant who would have done the operation, in a few months through the NHS all included in his salary, who will do it next day for a private payment.

I'm guessing that might have been when the waiting list was born.

 

[MorkandMindy]

My understanding is consultant contracts now often have clauses not to do private work in the UK. Of course they fly over to the US and get a fortune operating here.

But sticking to what goes on in the UK, there has been an influx of patients from Eastern Europe in particular, I've been told, coming in to the airports and using nearby hospitals free of charge to what would have cost money in their country of origin.

Waiting lists are a suitable deterrent because it can add on hotel stays and make the whole thing uneconomic.

I'd be interested in your comments on these points and any other points, and please accept my sympathy for how badly it has gone for yourself and for your relatives.

 

[morningstar2651]

Our nation's biggest problem or our own biggest fear, answer either question. To me they are both the same.

When I go for a medical of any sort, I never know how much it is going to cost, if I can afford it or not, whether my health insurance will pay or not.

A lot of people on CF are middle class and don't have money problems, but for those of us in the lower half of the income range just one CT scan can wipe out a year's savings. That's all it takes. As for chemotherapy the option is pretty simple, die. But it would be a shame to do that for something pretty simple.

For many people medical costs are the Sword of Damocles, something to be forever worried about, a perpetual stress to add to all the other stresses of life.

Fundamental to US economic thinking is that without fear there is no motivation to work, and though that may sound like a fabulous idea, in some cases it has gone too far.


If you think telling others about your biggest fear will help your state of mind then do it. I figured in most people's cases it would be something with a big political content so I put it in this forum.

This is capitalism at work. I know that this is a pretty extreme idea here, but hear me out.

Maybe the goal of businesses (like hospitals or insurance companies) shouldn't be to maximize profit or maximize shareholder value. Maybe different businesses would work much better and we would have a better-run society if businesses would focus on what's actually important for their industry and their workers and communities rather than on what will put the most money in their shareholder's pockets.

We can make changes in the right direction without a violent uprising and without relying on the state to seize the means of production.

Worker Self-Directed Enterprises or Worker-Cooperatives are alternatives to the way businesses are usually structured in this country. When the workers are the owners of the company they work for, then the company's priorities change.

 

[GirdYourLoins]

My understanding is consultant contracts now often have clauses not to do private work in the UK. Of course they fly over to the US and get a fortune operating here.

But sticking to what goes on in the UK, there has been an influx of patients from Eastern Europe in particular, I've been told, coming in to the airports and using nearby hospitals free of charge to what would have cost money in their country of origin.

Waiting lists are a suitable deterrent because it can add on hotel stays and make the whole thing uneconomic.

I'd be interested in your comments on these points and any other points, and please accept my sympathy for how badly it has gone for yourself and for your relatives.

There is certainly a perception that NHS tourists as they are called often get preferencial treatment. They dont sit on a waiting list for a year like I'm doing. People claim that racism is one of the biggest factors for Brexit. In reality the perception that people coming into the country get preferential treatment while British people can be left without treatment is the reason behind that, whether right or wrong (factually and morally).

We also get benefit migrants who come here for the benefits, often working cash in hand and paying no tax and milking the system as well.

 

[Kentonio]

Here in the UK we have to rely on the NHS. Its great if you have a serious or life threatening illness, but anything else and they just dont do anything. I've been battling wiht them for years to get a proper diagnosis and treatment, but they just keep saying I dont know what you want tme to do. They're the doctor, they should be telling me what they will do. And then there's the waiting lists. I wwas referred for an appointment in November/December last year and it will be another 6 months before I get it. Ive spoken to a few people recently with similar stories. One this week who after 10 years of waiting for a joint replacement has been told her bones are now too far deteriorated to be done. Her daughter spent years in chronic pain and never got treated. When she said sshe couldnt live with the pain anymore their repsonse was to say are you suicidal, we'll refer you for pschiatric review. And her son had a chronic problem for 10 years that wasnt treated and then became cancer. Someone else I spke to lost his wife and daughter to cancer because by the time the NHS diagnosed it it was too late for both of them. The GP (general practice) doctors that are the first line medical contact are unsuitable for [ur[ose. Many areas they are so busy its virtually impossiible to get an appointment. Recently in my local area Ive read 3 people saying that older relatives have died while struggling to get an appointment. So maybe you havent got it too bad.

I have no idea what part of the UK you live in, but I spent decades there and my family live there and I've never had problems like you describe.

 

[Kentonio]

My understanding is consultant contracts now often have clauses not to do private work in the UK. Of course they fly over to the US and get a fortune operating here.

But sticking to what goes on in the UK, there has been an influx of patients from Eastern Europe in particular, I've been told, coming in to the airports and using nearby hospitals free of charge to what would have cost money in their country of origin.

Waiting lists are a suitable deterrent because it can add on hotel stays and make the whole thing uneconomic.

I'd be interested in your comments on these points and any other points, and please accept my sympathy for how badly it has gone for yourself and for your relatives.

The NHS problems over the last decade have come about due to a ruling Conservative party who ideologically wish for a US style insurance based system and who have been trying to achieve this by undercutting NHS funding. With EU free movement they accepted the advantages of cheap labour but never invested in providing the additional healthcare resources needed to keep the system balanced. It is deliberate sabotage and nothing more.

 

[GirdYourLoins]

The NHS problems over the last decade have come about due to a ruling Conservative party who ideologically wish for a US style insurance based system and who have been trying to achieve this by undercutting NHS funding. With EU free movement they accepted the advantages of cheap labour but never invested in providing the additional healthcare resources needed to keep the system balanced. It is deliberate sabotage and nothing more.

No they havent. In fact I would say until covid they were better than when the Conservatives came into power. Under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown it was even worse. It improved slightly under the conservatives and I did get some tests/scans done although they never really followed up. You are just buying into the left wing propeganda that doesnt fit my experience at all.

 

[GirdYourLoins]

No they havent. In fact I would say until covid the NHS were better than after the Conservatives came into power. Under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown it was even worse. It improved slightly under the conservatives and I did get some tests/scans done although they never really followed up. You are just buying into the left wing propeganda that doesnt fit my experience at all.

 

[GirdYourLoins]

The NHS problems over the last decade have come about due to a ruling Conservative party who ideologically wish for a US style insurance based system and who have been trying to achieve this by undercutting NHS funding. With EU free movement they accepted the advantages of cheap labour but never invested in providing the additional healthcare resources needed to keep the system balanced. It is deliberate sabotage and nothing more.

Im South East. I see your profile says France. There is a perception that foreign nationals get better treatment (probably to do with the mutual care arrangements) than British people do. Maybe you benefitted from that.

 

[Kentonio]

No they havent. In fact I would say until covid they were better than when the Conservatives came into power. Under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown it was even worse. It improved slightly under the conservatives and I did get some tests/scans done although they never really followed up. You are just buying into the left wing propeganda that doesnt fit my experience at all.

This is factually nonsense, the NHS received much higher investment and returned much better results under Blair than the previous Tory government. That's not even debatable, its just hard fact.

 

[Kentonio]

Im South East. I see your profile says France. There is a perception that foreign nationals get better treatment (probably to do with the mutual care arrangements) than British people do. Maybe you benefitted from that.

Nice try, but I'm British.

 

[GirdYourLoins]

Nice try, but I'm British.

So where did you live that you never had these problems? And did you have any ongoing health issues?

 

[GirdYourLoins]

This is factually nonsense, the NHS received much higher investment and returned much better results under Blair than the previous Tory government. That's not even debatable, its just hard fact.

Its what happened to me. If you are going to call me a liar I will report you. UNder the Blair government I got nothing done under the NHS and after the Conservatives came into power I had various tests and scans done. The NHS still was and is useless in my experience but at leasst they tried something.

 

[Kentonio]

Its what happened to me. If you are going to call me a liar I will report you. UNder the Blair government I got nothing done under the NHS and after the Conservatives came into power I had various tests and scans done. The NHS still was and is useless in my experience but at leasst they tried something.

I'm not questioning your personal anecdotes, but you tried to suggest it was true of the wider system and that absolutely not true as this graph clearly illustrates.

 

[Kentonio]

So where did you live that you never had these problems? And did you have any ongoing health issues?

Both my parents had joint replacements and a variety of ongoing health issues. Neither had any problem receiving the care they needed.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Our nation's biggest problem or our own biggest fear, answer either question. To me they are both the same.

When I go for a medical of any sort, I never know how much it is going to cost, if I can afford it or not, whether my health insurance will pay or not.

A lot of people on CF are middle class and don't have money problems, but for those of us in the lower half of the income range just one CT scan can wipe out a year's savings. That's all it takes. As for chemotherapy the option is pretty simple, die. But it would be a shame to do that for something pretty simple.

For many people medical costs are the Sword of Damocles, something to be forever worried about, a perpetual stress to add to all the other stresses of life.

Fundamental to US economic thinking is that without fear there is no motivation to work, and though that may sound like a fabulous idea, in some cases it has gone too far.


If you think telling others about your biggest fear will help your state of mind then do it. I figured in most people's cases it would be something with a big political content so I put it in this forum.

Most places will work with people as long as they pay SOMETHING. For example, the first time my father was sick with colon cancer we had insurance, but it was not great. What we did was kept a list of doctors and paid something to each every month just like we paid our power bill or house payment. His Chomo treatments ran about 4,500 a pop for a total of 54k in in treatments. The second time ( which ended up killing him we had GREAT insurance else we would have had a much larger bill than we did with roughly four months of the last year of his life being in a hospital, but the thing of it is too the debt dies with the person ( as long as no one else 's name is on the debt in most cases). We also had people helping us on their own accord and have sense done the same

 

[GirdYourLoins]

Both my parents had joint replacements and a variety of ongoing health issues. Neither had any problem receiving the care they needed.

Thats not what I asked. I said where was it (just general area)?

 

[Kentonio]

Thats not what I asked. I said where was it (just general area)?

Central England. Which southerners consider the north and northerners consider the south.