What do you believe about January 6th?

[ToddNotTodd]

No, just assembling by itself doesn’t make them a mob. Violently storming a building and demanding to take the law into their own hands is what makes them a mob.

Idk why you’d expect success out of the numbskulls that put this thing together. Even the former president’s attorneys were a complete laughing stock and an endless source of entertainment after the election. Stupidity from the absolute highest levels of organization down to the lowest idiot that thought they were gonna do something big that day. Just an all around total and complete failure.

What a fitting end to Trump’s presidency.

Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing...

 

[Sophrosyne]

No, just assembling by itself doesn’t make them a mob. Violently storming a building and demanding to take the law into their own hands is what makes them a mob.

Idk why you’d expect success out of the numbskulls that put this thing together. Even the former president’s attorneys were a complete laughing stock and an endless source of entertainment after the election. Stupidity from the absolute highest levels of organization down to the lowest idiot that thought they were gonna do something big that day. Just an all around total and complete failure.

What a fitting end to Trump’s presidency.

Yes..... lets call them Trump supporters low lives and at the same time call BLM supporters wonderful people who have the best morals and judgment. Lets hold Trump supporters to the highest standards possible and hit them hard because numbskulls should have the highest standards and should know even better than BLM supporters who need the lowest standards of justice applied to them.
Let's broad brush the entire "mob" at the Capital an tar and feather them all.
Let's also make sure and separate out the bad apples in BLM protests and not broad brush them at all.
Lets make sure we give BLM supporters as much leniency because they are such wonderful people and deserve it.

The problem I see is when you pretend to stand on the moral high ground. When your group is organized and funded and supported by people who own major corporations and are leaders of state and local governments and your protestors are PAID to protest and even trained to do so then I believe you should be held to the highest standards of behavior..... higher than a bunch of numbskulls who aren't trained, aren't paid, have little leadership.
Yup..... all of this stinks of elitism to me..... big time.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Yes..... lets call them Trump supporters low lives and at the same time call BLM supporters wonderful people who have the best morals and judgment. Lets hold Trump supporters to the highest standards possible and hit them hard because numbskulls should have the highest standards and show know even better than BLM supporters who need the lowest standards of justice applied to them.
Let's broad brush the entire "mob" at the Capital an tar and feather them all.
Let's also make sure and separate out the bad apples in BLM protests and not broad brush them at all.
Lets make sure we give BLM supporters as much leniency because they are such wonderful people and deserve it.

The problem I see is when you pretend to stand on the moral high ground. When your group is organized and funded and supported by people who own major corporations and are leaders of state and local governments and your protestors are PAID to protest and even trained to do so then I believe you should be held to the highest standards of behavior..... higher than a bunch of numbskulls who aren't trained, aren't paid, have little leadership.
Yup..... all of this stinks of elitism to me..... big time.

If it’s elitist to think I’m a little better than a bunch of morons who tried to overturn the election and stormed the Capitol and smeared their excrement all over the walls of Congressional offices and flat out desecrated our temple to democracy and put the lives of every member of Congress, their families and the Vice President in danger.. well then I guess I’m an elitist.

 

[Sophrosyne]

If it’s elitist to think I’m a little better than a bunch of morons who tried to overturn the election and stormed the Capitol and smeared their excrement all over the walls of Congressional offices and flat out desecrated our temple to democracy and put the lives of every member of Congress, their families and the Vice President in danger.. well then I guess I’m an elitist.

No, it is elitist to hold people whom you consider inferior to yourself to higher standards than you hold yourself to.

 

[RDKirk]

Are they as a whole a mob or are they several small mobs? I don't think they were organized to act like a mob unlike BLM protests and if so then you cannot try or judge them all as one group.

A mob by definition is not an organization. Whether it was a single mob or multiple mobs is irrelevant.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

No, it is elitist to hold people whom you consider inferior to yourself to higher standards than you hold yourself to.

I don’t consider myself superior to anyone but storming the Capitol based on the president’s lies is a pretty boneheaded thing to do. I don’t know what standards you think I’m ignoring but I am yet to participate in any kind of mob or riot at the behest of any political leaders.

 

[Sophrosyne]

A mob by definition is not an organization. Whether it was a single mob or multiple mobs is irrelevant.

A mob can be an organization if it is an organized mob.
It makes a lot of difference if there is more than one mob because then you can likely separate their actions from each other and give them the credit they are due (either good or bad).
You also cannot as easily broad brush things over if there is many "mobs" that comprise an overall "group" of people who are being addressed.
Often mobs end up with a leader and followers, which in effect is an organization. One could consider a BLM protest a "mob" and if we take your standards then the "mob" of people that are looting a building and another "mob" of people that are setting building afire and yet another "mob" who are harassing police plus again another "mob" who are intimidating people trapped in their midst and more and more all of these people would be only one Mob and thus we have BLM with groups of people holding signs and others doing violence and others looting.
This is what broad brushing does it condemns a single group as but one "mob" and tries to stereotype them for actions of other mobs within their group which are doing contrary to what the main group is doing.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I don’t consider myself superior to anyone but storming the Capitol based on the president’s lies is a pretty boneheaded thing to do. I don’t know what standards you think I’m ignoring but I am yet to participate in any kind of mob or riot at the behest of any political leaders.

Your words are in judgment of others... and those who judge others are in a position of superiority even though they don't realize it they are elevating their morals above others.

 

[RDKirk]

A mob can be an organization if it is an organized mob.
It makes a lot of difference if there is more than one mob because then you can likely separate their actions from each other and give them the credit they are due (either good or bad).
You also cannot as easily broad brush things over if there is many "mobs" that comprise an overall "group" of people who are being addressed.
Often mobs end up with a leader and followers, which in effect is an organization. One could consider a BLM protest a "mob" and if we take your standards then the "mob" of people that are looting a building and another "mob" of people that are setting building afire and yet another "mob" who are harassing police plus again another "mob" who are intimidating people trapped in their midst and more and more all of these people would be only one Mob and thus we have BLM with groups of people holding signs and others doing violence and others looting.
This is what broad brushing does it condemns a single group as but one "mob" and tries to stereotype them for actions of other mobs within their group which are doing contrary to what the main group is doing.

"Organized mob" is a contradiction in terms.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Your words are in judgment of others... and those who judge others are in a position of superiority even though they don't realize it they are elevating their morals above others.

You’re right, I am judging others, based on their actions. If you try to cancel and overturn the election and invalidate my vote then I’m going to sit in judgment of you and I’m going to think better of myself for not having done that and if you think you’re any better for pointing this out to me then I have to ask if you’re not sitting here in judgment of others, yourself.

Nothing I’ve said is directed at you or anyone here in these forums but you seem to be taking this very personally. Were you there on Jan 6?

 

[Sophrosyne]

One could consider there almost 2 mobs here, one who are intent to support the notion that Trump supporters are a violent extremist etc etc and the other

"Organized mob" is a contradiction in terms.

Never heard of "mob rule"? While mobs are not well organized if they have a leader and followers then isn't that the beginning of an organization?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

So let me get this straight, the idea here is that Trump supporters are bad people because 1.3% of them broke the law?

Trump supporters sympathize, make excuses and condone the actions of those who broke the law. And then try to minimize it by comparing to other riots.

 

[Brihaha]

Trump literally advertised "Stop the steal" as the name of the "rally". Then he told his rabid cult how they need to "fight like hell" to keep the will of his people from being stolen. You can defend his conduct till the cows come home, it does not absolve him of his culpability in undermining our democracy!

 

[RDKirk]

One could consider there almost 2 mobs here, one who are intent to support the notion that Trump supporters are a violent extremist etc etc and the other

Never heard of "mob rule"? While mobs are not well organized if they have a leader and followers then isn't that the beginning of an organization?

"Mob rule" is explicitly a state of disorganization.

 

[Sophrosyne]

You’re right, I am judging others, based on their actions. If you try to cancel and overturn the election and invalidate my vote then I’m going to sit in judgment of you and I’m going to think better of myself for not having done that and if you think you’re any better for pointing this out to me then I have to ask if you’re not sitting here in judgment of others, yourself.

Nothing I’ve said is directed at you or anyone here in these forums but you seem to be taking this very personally. Were you there on Jan 6?

You are also judging based upon what opinion you have made of what information you have that likely isn't first hand knowledge as I doubt you were a participant in the conflict on either side. In a court of law second hand testimony is not usually enough to convict. I'm happy to consider anything possible that could have happened on that day but I am not willing to condemn anyone based upon what rumors the media profit from.
Judging is a fact of life, and the Bible itself says be careful when you judge because the standards you put on others you judge could backfire and often big time.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Trump literally advertised "Stop the steal" as the name of the "rally". Then he told his rabid cult how they need to "fight like hell" to keep the will of his people from being stolen. You can defend his conduct till the cows come home, it does not absolve him of his culpability in undermining our democracy!

He billed it as “it’s going to be wild!”

That sure doesn’t sound like a normal way to describe a normal, totally peaceful and uneventful protest.

The idea that Trump was totally oblivious to the potential violent tendencies in some of his more ardent supporters and that the rhetoric he’d been using about the election aren’t to blame at all for what happened would be laughable if it weren’t such a clear and direct threat to democracy itself in this country.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

You are also judging based upon what opinion you have made of what information you have that likely isn't first hand knowledge as I doubt you were a participant in the conflict on either side. In a court of law second hand testimony is not usually enough to convict. I'm happy to consider anything possible that could have happened on that day but I am not willing to condemn anyone based upon what rumors the media profit from.
Judging is a fact of life, and the Bible itself says be careful when you judge because the standards you put on others you judge could backfire and often big time.

That’s just silly. By this logic none of us can comment or form an opinion on anything that happens that we’re aren’t direct witnesses to. Yourself included.

 

[Sophrosyne]

"Mob rule" is explicitly a state of disorganization.

If you say a group is a mob and then say mobs have no organization then you basically have nobody at all as leaders or followers and ALL that participate directly in that action are responsible those who don't cannot be condemned. I would further consider that this thinking works against the narrative suggested because it leads to most of the people just standing and watching and a few doing the "deeds".
In other words a mob typically acts as "one" but if you aren't acting in that "oneness" then you aren't part of the mob.

 

[Vylo]

No, it is elitist to hold people whom you consider inferior to yourself to higher standards than you hold yourself to.

I mean, I hold myself to the same standards and BLM as well. When BLM storms the capitol, chanting for Harris' death because she won't hand Biden the 2024 election that he lost fair and square, then I will definitely call for them to be jailed and call them insurrectionists.

BLM has been protesting being executed in the street by police. the Capitol rioters were protesting losing an election. There is a world of difference.

 

[Vylo]

You are also judging based upon what opinion you have made of what information you have that likely isn't first hand knowledge as I doubt you were a participant in the conflict on either side. In a court of law second hand testimony is not usually enough to convict. I'm happy to consider anything possible that could have happened on that day but I am not willing to condemn anyone based upon what rumors the media profit from.
Judging is a fact of life, and the Bible itself says be careful when you judge because the standards you put on others you judge could backfire and often big time.

That's incredibly untrue. hearsay is a form of indirect evidence that is used frequently to convict people of crimes. It is actually rare to have direct evidence of a crime used in court, because if there was such evidence, it usually wouldn't go to court, it would be settled out of court or plea bargained.