The Gap and The Sumer Creation Myth

[FreeGrace2]

Question for YEC (young earth creationists)

What is the big deal about the earth being way older than Adam? What doctrine or theology is compromised or contradicted?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@FreeGrace2

I am not going to continue to argue with you endlessly (when you are not opening to seeing it). I do not see your points as edifying or in line with the faith (the Bible). You can carry on as you wish, but I don't believe you or anyone else here has made a good case for the Gap Theory. In fact, that is what it is. Just a theory.

Peace be unto you in the Lord and I am moving on again from talking to you.
May God bless you.

 

[BeyondET]

Question for YEC (young earth creationists)

What is the big deal about the earth being way older than Adam? What doctrine or theology is compromised or contradicted?

none

2 Peter 3:5
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

 

[RickReads]

@FreeGrace2

I am not going to continue to argue with you endlessly (when you are not opening to seeing it). I do not see your points as edifying or in line with the faith (the Bible). You can carry on as you wish, but I don't believe you or anyone else here has made a good case for the Gap Theory. In fact, that is what it is. Just a theory.

Peace be unto you in the Lord and I am moving on again from talking to you.
May God bless you.

The best evidence for a gap is found in Job 38:4-7. God, Himself testifies that there were a lot of things going on when He built the earth.

And as a sidebar, verse 19 indicates that light and darkness are about a lot more than just the sun.

 

[BeyondET]

The best evidence for a gap is found in Job 38:4-7. God, Himself testifies that there were a lot of things going on when He built the earth.

And as a sidebar, verse 19 indicates that light and darkness are about a lot more than just the sun.

i don't see a gap, i see sons of God heavenly host from the waters separated the above waters. notice not much is talked about those waters after the split. waters from the waters.

 

[FreeGrace2]

@FreeGrace2

I am not going to continue to argue with you

Thank you

(when you are not opening to seeing it).

I am open to the truth, which it seems you are not. I have laid out all my cards on why I believe the earth is way older than Adam. My ONLY source is Scripture itself.

I do not see your points as edifying or in line with the faith (the Bible).

This is ridiculous. I asked what doctrine is violated or how is biblical theology challenged by an old earth. The obvious answer is: none. So what's the big deal anyway?

You can carry on as you wish, but I don't believe you or anyone else here has made a good case for the Gap Theory.

Closed minded people usually come to that conclusion.

In fact, that is what it is. Just a theory.

I'll tell you what is "theory". Whatever happened between Gen 1:1 and 1:2. That is a theory for those who speculate on what might have happened.

I don't focus on the "might have happened" stuff. I focus solely on what Gen 1:2 actually says. And I have backed up my conclusions from scholarly sources. Which I shared with you, and you summarily dismissed, typical of closed minded individuals.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Question for YEC (young earth creationists)

What is the big deal about the earth being way older than Adam? What doctrine or theology is compromised or contradicted?

none

2 Peter 3:5
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Exactly!!

 

[BeyondET]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Question for YEC (young earth creationists)

What is the big deal about the earth being way older than Adam? What doctrine or theology is compromised or contradicted?

Exactly!!

quite a bit of things older than mankind,
the waters above which is only mentioned once in Genesis 1:6. surely there is something to it.

here is another interesting mentioning, the waters below the expanse gathered into one place is implying many waters were gathered into one place.

 

[BeyondET]

little more pondering, there was a "surface" of the deep and a "surface" of the waters.

 

[RickReads]

i don't see a gap, i see sons of God heavenly host from the waters separated the above waters. notice not much is talked about those waters after the split. waters from the waters.

2 distinct groups of angels are identified as witnesses to the formation of the earth. They had already been created and most likely been around for a while when God made the earth. That`s all it takes for the gap theory to be more than just a theory.

God calls some of them the morning stars. By implication, the creation morning has already passed and this is all part of Genesis 1:1.

 

[BeyondET]

1 Peter 1:12
Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

 

[BeyondET]

2 distinct groups of angels are identified as witnesses to the formation of the earth. They had already been created and most likely been around for a while when God made the earth. That`s all it takes for the gap theory to be more than just a theory.

God calls some of them the morning stars. By implication, the creation morning has already passed and this is all part of Genesis 1:1.

God is Alpha not Alpha plus some
from the waters above the heavenly realm

1:1 is part of the introduction before verse and chapter introduction.
the deep, earth formless void, waters/heavens

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The best evidence for a gap is found in Job 38:4-7. God, Himself testifies that there were a lot of things going on when He built the earth.

A lot of assumption goes into reading the Gap Theory into that passage. This passage in Job just as equally can be read with a normal reading on Genesis 1, too. The problem is that there is no verse that clearly explains the Gap Theory. So it's just imaginary and not Scripture.

And as a sidebar, verse 19 indicates that light and darkness are about a lot more than just the sun.

But the point is primarily about the daylight separating the nightime. There is a greater light to rule the day (the sun), and a lesser light to rule the night (the moon). Was there no separating of light from darkness in the creation prior?

 

[BeyondET]

Goes deeper than simple lights

Got light separate from darkness

Got lights in the expanse of the sky to distinguish between the day and the night

Got two great lights rule the day and the night

Made the stars also

 

[sawdust]

But the point is primarily about the daylight separating the nightime. There is a greater light to rule the day (the sun), and a lesser light to rule the night (the moon). Was there no separating of light from darkness in the creation prior?

From the Earth's point of view? Possibly not. The angels known as Morning Stars may have been the light source for the planet prior to the restoration and mankind's creation. Especially considering morning star is the direct translation of Lucifer and can also mean light bringing.

We know in the new creation we will have no need of sun and moon.

Rev.21:23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.

It is possible, the rebellious angels under Lucifer were judged harshly which resulted in a cataclysmic destruction of the Earth (on the surface) which, put the Earth in what we term nowadays, a "nuclear winter". With the removal of the angels from their responsibilities (eg. light bringer), the Earth needed a new light source so God appointed the Sun and Moon to do the job as they were already existing.

 

[FreeGrace2]

little more pondering, there was a "surface" of the deep and a "surface" of the waters.

Now, that's deep!

 

[DavidPT]

Question for YEC (young earth creationists)

What is the big deal about the earth being way older than Adam? What doctrine or theology is compromised or contradicted?

One big deal might be this. That would mean there is a gap after all. I reject there being a gap anywhere in Genesis 1.
If there is a gap somewhere, someone would have been able to prove it via other Scriptures by now. Granted, some think they have already done that. Yet, when one examines the Scriptures they use as proof, it's obvious to a lot of us that they are taking those Scriptures out of context and applying them to things having zero to do with them.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

From the Earth's point of view? Possibly not. The angels known as Morning Stars may have been the light source for the planet prior to the restoration and mankind's creation. Especially considering morning star is the direct translation of Lucifer and can also mean light bringing.

We know in the new creation we will have no need of sun and moon.

Rev.21:23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.

It is possible, the rebellious angels under Lucifer were judged harshly which resulted in a cataclysmic destruction of the Earth (on the surface) which, put the Earth in what we term nowadays, a "nuclear winter". With the removal of the angels from their responsibilities (eg. light bringer), the Earth needed a new light source so God appointed the Sun and Moon to do the job as they were already existing.

Any of this imaginary fantasy type thinking actualy found in the Bible?
No Gap Theory is clearly even mentioned. There is no verse, I repeat, there is no verse that says, “And the first creation was destroyed, and God recreated the Heavens and the Earth in 6 days and rested on the seventh day.”

There is only mention of only one creation and nothing about a re-creation in Genesis 1.

Also, Romans 5:12 says, “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”

So sin (followed by death) came into this world through Adam. If sin entered the Earth prior, then Romans 5:12 would technically not be a 100% true statement. Sin would have entered the world through the rebellion of angels being upon the Earth.

 

[FreeGrace2]

One big deal might be this. That would mean there is a gap after all.

My question was asking what is the big deal about a gap. What doctrines are affected, or how is theology affected? Anything?

I reject there being a gap anywhere in Genesis 1.

That's your business.

If there is a gap somewhere

Right. But it isn't "somewhere". It is specifically between Gen 1:1 and 1:2.

someone would have been able to prove it via other Scriptures by now.

It's been done, but your mind is closed to facts. Which is your business.

I have shown that the Hebrew words in 1:2 were not translated properly and the result is a HUGE CONTRADICTION with Isa 45:18, which you conveniently ignore.

Also, I showed from mar 10:6 that the Greek word "creation" comes from the verb "ktizo" which properly means "to reduce from a state of disorder and wildness", so when Jesus made reference to Adam and the woman's marriage, He was ACKNOWLEDGING the human creation FOLLOWED disorder and wildness. Do some research and discover for yourself the truth. That's what I've done.

And...don't forget Heb 11:3. The Greek word for "formed/framed/etc" is 'katartizo', and means to repair, fix, mend.

In fact, in the gospels it was used of the disciples mending their nets.

So there are 2 verses in the Greek that SUPPORT a restoration of earth in Genesis 1. But never mind, since your mind is closed to actual facts.

Granted, some think they have already done that. Yet, when one examines the Scriptures they use as proof, it's obvious to a lot of us that they are taking those Scriptures out of context and applying them to things having zero to do with them.

OK, I've been up front with you on Scriptures. So now it's your turn to PROVE your claim that I have taken ANY of them "out of context".

Generally, when a person has no legitimate defense, they simply claim the other side takes verses out of context. Calvinists and Arminians are famous for that tactic.

And now you do it too.

Well then, prove your claim. Address the CONTRADICTION between Gen 1:2 (accepted translation) with Isa 45:18.

Here is how it looks:

Gen 1:1,2 God created the earth and the earth was tohu.

Isa 45:18 God did NOT create the earth tohu.

Now, prove your claim.

 

[DavidPT]

My question was asking what is the big deal about a gap. What doctrines are affected, or how is theology affected? Anything?


That's your business.


Right. But it isn't "somewhere". It is specifically between Gen 1:1 and 1:2.


It's been done, but your mind is closed to facts. Which is your business.

I have shown that the Hebrew words in 1:2 were not translated properly and the result is a HUGE CONTRADICTION with Isa 45:18, which you conveniently ignore.

Also, I showed from mar 10:6 that the Greek word "creation" comes from the verb "ktizo" which properly means "to reduce from a state of disorder and wildness", so when Jesus made reference to Adam and the woman's marriage, He was ACKNOWLEDGING the human creation FOLLOWED disorder and wildness. Do some research and discover for yourself the truth. That's what I've done.

And...don't forget Heb 11:3. The Greek word for "formed/framed/etc" is 'katartizo', and means to repair, fix, mend.

In fact, in the gospels it was used of the disciples mending their nets.

So there are 2 verses in the Greek that SUPPORT a restoration of earth in Genesis 1. But never mind, since your mind is closed to actual facts.


OK, I've been up front with you on Scriptures. So now it's your turn to PROVE your claim that I have taken ANY of them "out of context".

Generally, when a person has no legitimate defense, they simply claim the other side takes verses out of context. Calvinists and Arminians are famous for that tactic.

And now you do it too.

Well then, prove your claim. Address the CONTRADICTION between Gen 1:2 (accepted translation) with Isa 45:18.

Here is how it looks:

Gen 1:1,2 God created the earth and the earth was tohu.

Isa 45:18 God did NOT create the earth tohu.

Now, prove your claim.

You don't even know me, yet you are already claiming my mind is closed to any of this. I have debated the alleged gap with others since at least the mid 90s. I have heard every argument that one can think of, at one time or another, and none of those arguments ever convinced me they were right, and that I was wrong to reject this alleged gap.