JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

[SabbathBlessings]

What you don't understand it isn't a matter of what is popular, reality is Christianity isn't popular in America any longer. The Sunday worship has been well established for centuries, you wish to worship on Saturday, that is fine. You never answered the tough questions, nor will other Adventist.
The word says keep A sabbath day, it doesn't say Saturday, and the Adventist just can't get it.
You are attempting to use guilt trips in an attempt to force your viewpoints, you don't use well established Christian reasoning and interpretation.
When you decide to post scripture in the most part are not looking at the entire context of the letter or book. There is on passage in the apocrypha of Thomas that supports your viewpoint, but of course that isn't considered orthodox. Try reading the apocrypha's it just might open your eyes to what was left out of the bible. Many of the writings have Gnostic overtone to them and some theologians believe Paul leaned toward the Gnostic thinking. The Gnostics believed knowledge was how one draws closer to Jesus.
Try thinking for yourself and not just what some pastor told you.

I very much think for myself and my belief comes from what God wrote with His own hand and spoke with His own voice. God most certainly defined which day is His holy day and my trust is 100% in what God says.

Exodus 20 And God spoke all these words, saying:

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who iswithin your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Jesus said:

Mathew 4:4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’

I’m not sure how anyone can deny what is so plainly written. These words came from our Creator and Savior. Words Jesus told us we should live by.

 

[HIM]

What you don't understand it isn't a matter of what is popular, reality is Christianity isn't popular in America any longer. The Sunday worship has been well established for centuries, you wish to worship on Saturday, that is fine. You never answered the tough questions, nor will other Adventist.
The word says keep A sabbath day, it doesn't say Saturday, and the Adventist just can't get it.
You are .

You are wrong. The Word of God says to keep the Sabbath not a sabbath. The following is from a previous post.

We emphasized in bold the word translated Sabbath. The light blue emphasis is הַ and is pronounced ha in Hebrew. It is equivalent to our English word the. So we see the the Hebrew concurs with what you shared in respect to the KJV. Praise God for His truth and shame on the translators of the NIV. But then again no translation is 100% accurate. Father forgive us we know not what we do.


Ex 20:8 זָכ֛וֹר֩ za·Chor Remember אֶת־ 'et- י֥֨וֹם Yom day הַ·שַּׁבָּ֖֜ת hash·shab·Bat the sabbath לְ·קַדְּשֽׁ֗·וֹ le·kad·de·Sho, to keep it holy
הַ־‎ • (ha-)

1. (definite article) The.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Clearly the apostles did not regard the Sabbath as a weekly celebration, rather we were free to do what we desired to do. They instituted a day of celebration and family, sunday, where we focused on Jesus and fellowship over work and need. Paul went so far as to say we were free from the Sabbath after entering into Jesus and the sabbath rest of redemption and salvation.

For us the 4th commandment if fulfilled in walk with Jesus.
If as an individual anyone feels they have value in practising the sabbath on a Saturday, Amen, if not Amen.

I used to think the church actually understood its traditions etc. but after meeting many believers, clearly not.

God bless you

Well that would depend if we believe the scriptures or not. Jesus and the Apostles all kept the Sabbath as a holy day of rest according to God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments (Luke 4:16; Acts of the Apostles 17:2). According to God's Word Gods' 10 commandments give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. Jesus makes it very clear in Matthew 15:3-9 that if we knowingly follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not following God. There is not one scripture in all of Gods' Word that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many to break God's 4th commandment. BABYLON (apostate Christianity) as fallen *Revelation 14:8. God's people are in every Church (John 10:16) who he is calling out *Revelation 18:4 from the teachings and traditions of men back to the pure Word of God. The hour is coming and now is says Jesus that the true worshipers will worship God in spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24. . We do not fulfill God's law by breaking God's law. According to the scriptures this is sin (1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11) and sin will keep all those who knowingly (James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31) practice it out of God's kingdom according to Paul in Hebrews 10:26-31. The test and question we must all consider therefore is, who should I believe and follow God or man? Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to the scriptures *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29

 

[RBPerry]

You are wrong. The Word of God says to keep the Sabbath not a sabbath. The following is from a previous post.

We emphasized in bold the word translated Sabbath. The light blue emphasis is הַ and is pronounced ha in Hebrew. It is equivalent to our English word the. So we see the the Hebrew concurs with what you shared in respect to the KJV. Praise God for His truth and shame on the translators of the NIV. But then again no translation is 100% accurate. Father forgive us we know not what we do.


Ex 20:8 זָכ֛וֹר֩ za·Chor Remember אֶת־ 'et- י֥֨וֹם Yom day הַ·שַּׁבָּ֖֜ת hash·shab·Bat the sabbath לְ·קַדְּשֽׁ֗·וֹ le·kad·de·Sho, to keep it holy
הַ־‎ • (ha-)

1. (definite article) The.

Well since your well versed in Hebrew where is an original Old Testament written in Hebrew? I know that about 300 BC it was written in Greek. So you don't like the NIV, well I don't like the KJV, that isn't how we speak today.
We also know that we don't have the actual stones God wrote the commandments on. Considering the Jews were in captivity many learned the Egyptian language and by the time Jesus came many Jews no longer spoke or understood the Hebrew language. The common language during the time Christ was here was Aramaic.
Now when you look at the translation difficulties between Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek and English you come up with some real difficulties. Actually many scholars today see some major translation problems, but that is understandable.
The bible we have today is what the Catholic church wanted us to have, there is another problem, what did they throw out? Now us Protestants decided to throw out many of the books from the original Catholic bible.
Here is the question no one will answer, or at least hasn't yet. Why would God wait fifteen hundred years to deal with the sabbath issue if it was that bid a deal? My belief, He wouldn't have, he would have dealt with it hundreds of years ago but he didn't. Yes there were groups still worshiping on Saturday, but that wasn't the orthodox tradition and they were considered unorthodox.

 

[Leaf473]

You just said you do not earlier offer animal sacrifices to a Levite Priest in an earthly Temple.

That's correct.

Did you change your mind?

No.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

That's correct. No.

I see your not interested in a discussion. I can understand why. Thanks for your time though

 

[HIM]

You are wrong. The Word of God says to keep the Sabbath not a sabbath. The following is from a previous post.

We emphasized in bold the word translated Sabbath. The light blue emphasis is הַ and is pronounced ha in Hebrew. It is equivalent to our English word the. So we see the the Hebrew concurs with what you shared in respect to the KJV. Praise God for His truth and shame on the translators of the NIV. But then again no translation is 100% accurate. Father forgive us we know not what we do.


Ex 20:8 זָכ֛וֹר֩ za·Chor Remember אֶת־ 'et- י֥֨וֹם Yom day הַ·שַּׁבָּ֖֜ת hash·shab·Bat the sabbath לְ·קַדְּשֽׁ֗·וֹ le·kad·de·Sho, to keep it holy
הַ־‎ • (ha-)

1. (definite article) The.

Well since your well versed in Hebrew where is an original Old Testament written in Hebrew? I know that about 300 BC it was written in Greek. So you don't like the NIV, well I don't like the KJV, that isn't how we speak today.

Never stated not liking the NIV. As a matter of fact it was stated that all translations have errors. Incidentally the LXX also uses the definite article in Ex 20:8 in regards to the Sabbath.

And by the Way God said He never would leave us not forsake us. As for me and my house we will have faith in His Word rather in the uncertainty that you have.

Incidentally nothing you said here counters the post you are answering to. You need to take that in for a bit and think about that.

The bible we have today is what the Catholic church wanted us to have, there is another problem, what did they throw out? Now us Protestants decided to throw out many of the books from the original Catholic bible.

The Bible we have today is from God. It is the foundation of the faith that you don't seem to have.

Here is the question no one will answer, or at least hasn't yet. Why would God wait fifteen hundred years to deal with the sabbath issue if it was that bid a deal?

Many up to the point of the Baptist in 1800 were keeping the Sabbath. Some hear and adhere, most don't. Nothing has change through the centuries from the fall. Only 8 at the flood heard and adhered. Jesus said at the time of His second coming it would be as then. I pray not....

My belief, He wouldn't have, he would have dealt with it hundreds of years ago but he didn't. Yes there were groups still worshiping on Saturday, but that wasn't the orthodox tradition and they were considered unorthodox.

Biblical history proves the masses were always following their own inclinations rather the purpose God was trying to establish in their hearts. Nothing new under the sun Perry.

 

[Leaf473]

Your response here...

Then you would be wrong but here let's show why from the scriptures. The answer to the question was in the scripture provided.

Let's look at it here...

Romans 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. [9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Love is expressed through obedience to God's law not by breaking Gods' Law. (see also Matthew 22:36-40; James 2:8-12; 1 John 5:2-3)

Do you love Jesus Leaf?

Yes.

I believe you do (if you do see John 14:15)

Hope this is helpful.

 

[Leaf473]

Why would God wait fifteen hundred years to deal with the sabbath issue if it was that big a deal?

I agree with the thrust of what you're saying there.

I think the standard Restorationist answer is, "These are the last days."

The story goes that Jesus built his church and things went well for a while then the church turned away and disappeared from the earth or at least fell asleep.

But now, in the "last days" God is restoring truth to his church.

Then sometimes Daniel's prophecy about knowledge increasing in the end times is added.

To me it doesn't fit with Jesus saying that he would build his church and it would overwhelm the gates of hell. And that his followers would be a city set on a hill that couldn't be hidden.

 

[Leaf473]

I see your not interested in a discussion. I can understand why. Thanks for your time though

I'm very interested in a discussion. I believe you had asked for bare bones answers.

Peace be with you!

 

[RBPerry]

The Bible we have today is from God. It is the foundation of the faith that you don't seem to have.
Many up to the point of the Baptist in 1800 were keeping the Sabbath. Some hear and adhere, most don't. Nothing has change through the centuries from the fall.
Biblical history proves the masses were always following their own inclinations rather the purpose God was trying to establish in their hearts. Nothing new under the sun Perry.

The bible we have today is from the Catholic church, and you should know that.
How is it that you make a judgement on me when you have no idea what my faith is, or is that just a strong man tactic on your part.

Never stated not liking the NIV. As a matter of fact it was stated that all translations have errors. Incidentally the LXX also uses the definite article in Ex 20:8 in regards to the Sabbath.

Biblical history proves the masses were always following their own inclinations rather the purpose God was trying to establish in their hearts. Nothing new under the sun Perry.

Now we are getting somewhere, all translations have errors, and you are correct, someone else had issues with the NIV.
As for the masses, Christians were following what they were being taught, as they are today. The fact that some continued with Saturday sabbath keeping means very little. That orthodox church switched to Sunday. By the way, remember they are the ones who gave us the bible we have today.

As with most Adventist you skirted the question. Why would God wait 1500 years to deal with the sabbath issue? Your implication is the majority of Christianity is wrong, and you are the only one right, that is pretty arrogant, but that is what I was taught as I'm sure your were as well.

So God gave us the Bible. Well why did it take so long to ratify it.
Look at all the councils
· First Council of Nicaea (325 A.D.)
· First Council of Constantinople (381 A.D.)
· First Council of Ephesus (431 A.D.)
· Council of Chalcedon (451 A.D.)
· Second Council of Constantinople (553 A.D.)
· Third Council of Constantinople (680-681 A.D.)
· Second Council of Nicaea (787 A.D.)
· Fourth Council of Constantinople (869-870 A.D.)
· First Council of the Lateran (1123 A.D.)
· Second Council of the Lateran (1139 A.D.)
· Third Council of the Lateran (1179)
· Fourth Council of the Lateran (1215)
· First Council of Lyon (1245)
· Second Council of Lyon (1274)
· Council of Vienne (1311–1312)
· Council of Constance (1414–1418)
· Council of Basel, Ferrara and Florence (1431–1445)
· Fifth Council of the Lateran (1512–1517)

Then they decided to ratify the bible. Of course Luther and the reformation had a little to do with that or the Catholic church would still be arguing over their theology.

Why do Adventist pastors and elders work on Saturday and not rest? I guess they are sinners like the rest of us.

 

[RBPerry]

You Adventist want some more fire power. Read the apocrypha of Thomas, you might really like parts of it.

 

[HIM]

The bible we have today is from the Catholic church, and you should know that.
How is it that you make a judgement on me when you have no idea what my faith is, or is that just a strong man tactic on your part.



Now we are getting somewhere, all translations have errors, and you are correct, someone else had issues with the NIV.
As for the masses, Christians were following what they were being taught, as they are today. The fact that some continued with Saturday sabbath keeping means very little. That orthodox church switched to Sunday. By the way, remember they are the ones who gave us the bible we have today.

As with most Adventist you skirted the question. Why would God wait 1500 years to deal with the sabbath issue? Your implication is the majority of Christianity is wrong, and you are the only one right, that is pretty arrogant, but that is what I was taught as I'm sure your were as well.

So God gave us the Bible. Well why did it take so long to ratify it.
Look at all the councils
· First Council of Nicaea (325 A.D.)
· First Council of Constantinople (381 A.D.)
· First Council of Ephesus (431 A.D.)
· Council of Chalcedon (451 A.D.)
· Second Council of Constantinople (553 A.D.)
· Third Council of Constantinople (680-681 A.D.)
· Second Council of Nicaea (787 A.D.)
· Fourth Council of Constantinople (869-870 A.D.)
· First Council of the Lateran (1123 A.D.)
· Second Council of the Lateran (1139 A.D.)
· Third Council of the Lateran (1179)
· Fourth Council of the Lateran (1215)
· First Council of Lyon (1245)
· Second Council of Lyon (1274)
· Council of Vienne (1311–1312)
· Council of Constance (1414–1418)
· Council of Basel, Ferrara and Florence (1431–1445)
· Fifth Council of the Lateran (1512–1517)

Then they decided to ratify the bible. Of course Luther and the reformation had a little to do with that or the Catholic church would still be arguing over their theology.

Why do Adventist pastors and elders work on Saturday and not rest? I guess they are sinners like the rest of us.

The Bible was orchestrated and gathered through God's Spirit. The fact you don't recognize that says everything about your faith. No judgement needed.

And once again we are not adventist. Not all Christians are.

The fact that you keep bring the SDA up in a negative light says a lot also.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The bible we have today is from the Catholic church, and you should know that.
How is it that you make a judgement on me when you have no idea what my faith is, or is that just a strong man tactic on your part.



Now we are getting somewhere, all translations have errors, and you are correct, someone else had issues with the NIV.
As for the masses, Christians were following what they were being taught, as they are today. The fact that some continued with Saturday sabbath keeping means very little. That orthodox church switched to Sunday. By the way, remember they are the ones who gave us the bible we have today.

As with most Adventist you skirted the question. Why would God wait 1500 years to deal with the sabbath issue? Your implication is the majority of Christianity is wrong, and you are the only one right, that is pretty arrogant, but that is what I was taught as I'm sure your were as well.

So God gave us the Bible. Well why did it take so long to ratify it.
Look at all the councils
· First Council of Nicaea (325 A.D.)
· First Council of Constantinople (381 A.D.)
· First Council of Ephesus (431 A.D.)
· Council of Chalcedon (451 A.D.)
· Second Council of Constantinople (553 A.D.)
· Third Council of Constantinople (680-681 A.D.)
· Second Council of Nicaea (787 A.D.)
· Fourth Council of Constantinople (869-870 A.D.)
· First Council of the Lateran (1123 A.D.)
· Second Council of the Lateran (1139 A.D.)
· Third Council of the Lateran (1179)
· Fourth Council of the Lateran (1215)
· First Council of Lyon (1245)
· Second Council of Lyon (1274)
· Council of Vienne (1311–1312)
· Council of Constance (1414–1418)
· Council of Basel, Ferrara and Florence (1431–1445)
· Fifth Council of the Lateran (1512–1517)

Then they decided to ratify the bible. Of course Luther and the reformation had a little to do with that or the Catholic church would still be arguing over their theology.

Why do Adventist pastors and elders work on Saturday and not rest? I guess they are sinners like the rest of us.

Sharing God’s Word as a pastor is not work and its not breaking the Sabbath. I can’t believe you are suggesting that. Just like Jesus did every Sabbath Luke 4:16 and just like the Pharisee’s accusing the Lord of the Sabbath of breaking the Sabbath.

 

[HIM]

Sharing God’s Word as a pastor is not work. I can’t believe you are suggesting that. Just like Jesus did every Sabbath and just like the Pharisee’s accusing the Lord of the Sabbath of breaking the Sabbath.

Yes it my friend. And for a lot it is very stressful.
When the Sabbath was first mandated we were told not leave our dwellings. The gathering came later. More so by tradition.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes it my friend. And for a lot it is very stressful.
When the Sabbath was first mandated we were told not leave our dwellings. The gathering came later. More so by tradition.

Are you suggesting Jesus sinned or that pastors are when preaching on Sabbath? I think it’s part of doing good on Sabbath Jesus teaches about Luke 14:1-5, Mathew 12:11-13 and setting aside our own pleasures Isaiah 58:13,14. I know I am blessed by hearing my pastor teach God’s Word each Sabbath like the apostles did Acts 18:4.

Leviticus 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation;

 

[RBPerry]

I agree with the thrust of what you're saying there.

I think the standard Restorationist answer is, "These are the last days."

The story goes that Jesus built his church and things went well for a while then the church turned away and disappeared from the earth or at least fell asleep.

But now, in the "last days" God is restoring truth to his church.

Then sometimes Daniel's prophecy about knowledge increasing in the end times is added.

To me it doesn't fit with Jesus saying that he would build his church and it would overwhelm the gates of hell. And that his followers would be a city set on a hill that couldn't be hidden.

Well a lot of people have been saying it's the last days, and if very well might be. Is God talking to us today, I believe He is, but not in progressive revelations.
Well Daniel was right, look at how much knowledge has increased in the last 130 years. It is way beyond exponential.

Off subject, I started studding near death experiences about ten years ago. At first I thought they were caused by the dying brain misfiring if you will. However when I started studding people that had flat EEGs and later returned to life I realized their experiences had to be separate from the brain. Many were atheist before their NDE, upon return they were no longer atheist. Many Christians returned with some amazing testimonies and many were claiming the time is very short for our world. I'm not endorsing them as prophetic but they are defiantly very enlightening. I have also read all the apocrypha's and they have some amazing insights. Sometimes it is good to look outside the box.

 

[Leaf473]

Well a lot of people have been saying it's the last days, and if very well might be. Is God talking to us today, I believe He is, but not in progressive revelations.
Well Daniel was right, look at how much knowledge has increased in the last 130 years. It is way beyond exponential.

Off subject, I started studding near death experiences about ten years ago. At first I thought they were caused by the dying brain misfiring if you will. However when I started studding people that had flat EEGs and later returned to life I realized their experiences had to be separate from the brain. Many were atheist before their NDE, upon return they were no longer atheist. Many Christians returned with some amazing testimonies and many were claiming the time is very short for our world. I'm not endorsing them as prophetic but they are defiantly very enlightening. I have also read all the apocrypha's and they have some amazing insights. Sometimes it is good to look outside the box.

Yes, it may be the last days. I just put it in quotes because Peter said it was the last days when he preached at Pentecost.

Near-death experiences when there is no brain activity? I hadn't heard of that, but it's fascinating!

I agree with looking outside of the box. I've been listening to the book of Enoch in the morning. It's considered scripture in the Coptic church, I think.

But you're right, this is off topic. But I'd be happy to talk more either by PM or on a different thread!

 

[RBPerry]

Leaf, I just sent you a PM. Love to chat with open minded people. Education and learning means so much in our world today.

 

[RBPerry]

Are you suggesting Jesus sinned or that pastors are when preaching on Sabbath? I think it’s part of doing good on Sabbath Jesus teaches about Luke 14:1-5, Mathew 12:11-13 and setting aside our own pleasures Isaiah 58:13,14. I know I am blessed by hearing my pastor teach God’s Word each Sabbath like the apostles did Acts 18:4.

Leviticus 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation;

No, I was just making an abstract statement for fun. Of course I have listen to some pastors where their preaching wasn't very edifying.