Purgatory

[concretecamper]

If you can’t even be truthful then I’m not interested in discussing anything with you

show me in the Catechism where it says purgatory is for the forgiveness of sins.

Edit:

It occured to me that you are looking at the reference to:

Mat 12:31 Therefore I say to you: Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but the blasphemy of the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
12:32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him neither in this world, nor in the world to come.

These are Christ's Word. The Catechism is consistent with what Christ said. If it is not, please show me.

 

[prodromos]

Prove it!

List of Christian denominations by number of members - Wikipedia
Catholics and Orthodox combined are 62% of Christians worldwide.

 

[prodromos]

Trinity = 3 = "plurality!

Four is also plurarity, so is five, so is 100. Plurarity is not specifically three.

 

[BNR32FAN]

List of Christian denominations by number of members - Wikipedia
Catholics and Orthodox combined are 62% of Christians worldwide.

The Eastern Orthodox Church rejects the doctrine of purgatory.

 

[prodromos]

The Eastern Orthodox Church rejects the doctrine of purgatory.

My response was regarding the biblical canon, not purgatory.

See Purgatory

 

[Major1]

Four is also plurarity, so is five, so is 100. Plurarity is not specifically three.

So do you think that there is more that three persons in the God head?

5 or 100???

From the context of the conversation, I can not help but wonder why you would feel led to make that comment.

It appears that you are casting doubt on the theology of a Trinity of 3 persons in one God head.

I am sure you will have an appropriate responce.

 

[prodromos]

So do you think that there is more that three persons in the God head?

5 or 100???

From the context of the conversation, I can not help but wonder why you would feel led to make that comment.

It appears that you are casting doubt on the theology of a Trinity of 3 persons in one God head.

I am sure you will have an appropriate responce.

You seem intent on entirely missing the point.

 

[BNR32FAN]

My response was regarding the biblical canon, not purgatory.

See Purgatory

Im sorry my mistake

 

[Major1]

You seem intent on entirely missing the point.

That is an opinion. I wonder what they are worth?

 

[concretecamper]

A triangle has a plurality of sides.
A square doesnt have a plurality of sides?

 

[bbbbbbb]

It seems that we have now completely plumbed the depths of Purgatory.

 

[FredVB]

The doctrine of purgatory teaches that purgatory is for the forgiveness of sin aka reconciliation after death which is the same thing as atonement for sin.

show me in the Catechism where it says purgatory is for the forgiveness of sins.

Edit:

It occured to me that you are looking at the reference to:

Mat 12:31 Therefore I say to you: Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but the blasphemy of the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
12:32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him neither in this world, nor in the world to come.

These are Christ's Word. The Catechism is consistent with what Christ said. If it is not, please show me.

What is there that Jesus Christ could not do that Purgatory would be able to do for anyone? Can anyone believe there is any such thing Christ cannot do and Purgatory can do?

Payment is not made for forgiveness, payment is made for justice. Nonbelievers criticize belief in God, justifiably, over that mistaken idea that God requires payment for being forgiving.

 

[concretecamper]

What is there that Jesus Christ could not do that Purgatory would be able to do for anyone?

since we have free will, Christ will not infringe upon our free will and by Himself break our attachments to sin. We (with the help of His grace) must either break them here on earth of after death. We all get to pick where. Nothing unclean can enter Heaven.

 

[Valletta]

What is there that Jesus Christ could not do that Purgatory would be able to do for anyone? Can anyone believe there is any such thing Christ cannot do and Purgatory can do?

Payment is not made for forgiveness, payment is made for justice. Nonbelievers criticize belief in God, justifiably, over that mistaken idea that God requires payment for being forgiving.

God could, at this moment, remove all sin from the world. Because God has not done so does not mean God cannot. It is the Word of God that nothing unclean can enter Heaven and the purification before Heaven spoken of in the Bible is simply what Catholics call purgatory.

 

[Albion]

The big mistake that's made when discussing this is to think that Purgatory, if there were a Purgatory, is for forgiveness. It's for punishment owing to sins already committed.

Today, when few laypersons in the church actually believe in the traditional teaching about Purgatory, the church is careful to describe the punishment as "purification" or something else that sounds inoffensive. The fact still is that all those who wind up in Purgatory--which is just about everyone except for those sent to hell instead--are there to "pay for" sins they've committed.

 

[East of Eden]

God could, at this moment, remove all sin from the world. Because God has not done so does not mean God cannot. It is the Word of God that nothing unclean can enter Heaven and the purification before Heaven spoken of in the Bible is simply what Catholics call purgatory.

That 'purification' was done completely by Christ on the cross. The notion of purgatory is like works-based false religions.

 

[concretecamper]

That 'purification' was done completely by Christ on the cross

Scripture please!

 

[FredVB]

since we have free will, Christ will not infringe upon our free will and by Himself break our attachments to sin. We (with the help of His grace) must either break them here on earth of after death. We all get to pick where. Nothing unclean can enter Heaven.

God could, at this moment, remove all sin from the world. Because God has not done so does not mean God cannot. It is the Word of God that nothing unclean can enter Heaven and the purification before Heaven spoken of in the Bible is simply what Catholics call purgatory.

God would justly remove all who are in the world from the world, all are sinners, and God would remove the world which has the curse from that, too. God is love, and as such, without being limited in it, sent the incarnation of Logos the Word with God who is God to the world, to lead any of those there showing his example to come to repentance turning from sin, to bear the sins, with his death on the cross, and to make available salvation with eternal life in him. Those in him can then be delivered from this world cursed with all the sin, and creation still groans for the deliverance which comes with the revealing of the redemption. Purification from sin comes through Christ, which is what we could not ever accomplish through what we do or go through ourselves if even through eternity. In Christ all are removed from sinful nature right away and meet him when dying in the body still of this world. Judgment on all left unrepenting still comes, and there is no deliverance from that.

Scripture please!

2 Peter 2:24 “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.”

Isaiah 53:3-5 is quoted there.

It is not about some sins, and not others. Christ bore sins for all who come to repentance, and salvation is made available through him.

 

[Albion]

You have to understand, though, that the Church which invented Purgatory and defined it in the way that the Late Middle Ages saw things, was asserting that eternal salvation is assured for all who trust in Christ but not that there is no temporal penalty to be paid for what they had done or left undone.

If there were no such state in the afterlife as Purgatory, Mother Teresa and Francis of Assisi would enter eternity on the same grounds as the brutal dictator who made a deathbed confession and came to Christ as his Lord and Savior. If that were the case, God would be merciful but unjust (it is argued).

 

[concretecamper]

2 Peter 2:24 “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.”

that doesn't address my question. Anyone else?