Purgatory

[Albion]

I do appreciate church history, it's one reason I'm not a Catholic.

There are a number of protestant denominations who don't believe anything the early church didn't, the same can't be said of the RCC. I have to laugh at your sig line about nothing added to the Catholic church, CS Lewis said he could never be one because there are too many new doctrines in your church. Also the one about you have to be a Catholic to be saved...

Well, the Catholic Church itself rejects this idea, so what does that tell us about individual Catholics who continue to say that you have to be one in order to be saved and also insist that the Church never changes. To be fair, it's usually converts who think they're being loyal who talk that way.

 

[East of Eden]

Well, not even the Catholic Church itself says this anymore, so what does that tell us about individual Catholics who continue to say that you have to be one in order to be saved and also that the Church never changes.

Maybe they've started their own denomination?

 

[Albion]

Maybe they've started their own denomination?

No, they're just trying to show loyalty to what they think their church stands for, even though the church itself has moved on.

 

[concretecamper]

I do appreciate church history, it's one reason I'm not a Catholic.

contradictory statement.

There are a number of protestant denominations who don't believe anything the early church didn't, the same can't be said of the RCC

that's why they all are in error.

. I have to laugh at your sig line about nothing added to the Catholic church

it seems like dont understand.

CS Lewis said he could never be one because there are too many new doctrines in your church

now I know you dont understand

Also the one about you have to be a Catholic to be saved

EVERYONE properly Baptized is Catholic.

reminds me of Peter saying to Jesus, "Stop them, for they are not one of us." Your 'first pope' was then properly rebuked by Jesus.

yep, Popes are human too.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Back to Purgatory. (sounds like the title for a grade-B movie). Are we all in agreement that the current RCC spin on Purgatory as being a pleasant transition from death to heaven, much like taking a soothing shower to wash away one's temporal sins is not at all the traditional RCC understanding of Purgatory as a place where Catholics go after death to suffer torment and purging for the temporal sins?

 

[concretecamper]

Are we all in agreement that the current RCC spin on Purgatory as being a pleasant transition from death to heaven

as usual, your explanation on what the Church teaches is wrong, despite what your Catholic freinds may have told you.

traditional RCC understanding of Purgatory as a place where Catholics go after death to suffer torment and purging for the temporal sins?

again, an incorrect statement.

2 for 2 wrong, great job

 

[bbbbbbb]

as usual, your explanation on what the Church teaches is wrong, despite what your Catholic freinds may have told you.
again, an incorrect statement.

2 for 2 wrong, great job

So, in 2,589 words or less please tell us all what you believe concerning the RCC doctrine of Purgatory.

 

[concretecamper]

So, in 2,589 words or less please tell us all what you believe concerning the RCC doctrine of Purgatory.

I promise to let you know when you get it right. Try again.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I promise to let you know when you get it right. Try again.

The ball is in your court, buddy. Is it that you cannot elucidate the doctrine of Purgatory for us or that you simply will not?

 

[concretecamper]

buddy

What the Church teaches about the need for purging after death is out there for all to read. What you wrote was incorrect. Sorry, but it was.

 

[Major1]

They are in the minority.

Prove it!

 

[Major1]

The ball is in your court, buddy. Is it that you cannot elucidate the doctrine of Purgatory for us or that you simply will not?

Probably both!

 

[Major1]

I'm not sure about that, but there have been several heresies in past church history where orthodoxy was a minority position. In the last days apostasy will grow and be a majority position.

2 Timothy 4:3-4...........
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

 

[Major1]

That only demonstrates a plurarity.

Trinity = 3 = "plurality!

 

[Major1]

No, and it is an insult to what Christ did on the cross, as if His sacrifice wasn't enough and we have to 'earn' it the rest of the way. Like the thief on the cross, when a believer dies they go to heaven. I have long thought this false doctrine is why you see so much bad behavior among Catholics, they think they can 'get it right' in purgatory, apparently making personal holiness optional, very sad. There are no such second chances.

Correct!

No matter how any Catholic positions it, Purgatory is simply saying............
"The shed blood, death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ is not enough to save man. "

 

[Albion]

The 'bottom line' when it comes to Scripture is that nothing even approaching the nature and function of Purgatory as the Church that invented Purgatory defined it is to be found in the Bible, the Apocrypha included.

There are various verses here or there that hint at an element or two which could pertain to something like a Purgatory, but although these are cited by advocates of Purgatory (because that's all they have), these do not prove or substantiate Purgatory, period. "Close enough" only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, they say, but not with Purgatory.

 

[BNR32FAN]

2 Maccabees 12:45 records an atonement made for the dead. It does not specifically say where the dead were, only that an atonement was made for them.

Correct me if I’m wrong here but if I recall correctly the request was made for the atonement but it was never actually said whether or not the dead who kept the idols were actually forgiven. Is this correct?

 

[bbbbbbb]

The 'bottom line' when it comes to Scripture is that nothing even approaching the nature and function of Purgatory as the Church that invented Purgatory defined it is to be found in the Bible, the Apocrypha included.

There are various verses here or there that hint at an element or two which could pertain to something like a Purgatory, but although these are cited by advocates of Purgatory (because that's all they have), these do not prove or substantiate Purgatory, period. "Close enough" only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, they say, but not with Purgatory.

Chasing at shadows is what it boils down to IMHO.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The 'bottom line' when it comes to Scripture is that nothing even approaching the nature and function of Purgatory as the Church that invented Purgatory defined it is to be found in the Bible, the Apocrypha included.

There are various verses here or there that hint at an element or two which could pertain to something like a Purgatory, but although these are cited by advocates of Purgatory (because that's all they have), these do not prove or substantiate Purgatory, period. "Close enough" only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, they say, but not with Purgatory.

Yes I agree, the verses they use to support it do not provide anywhere near enough information to base any sort of defined doctrine on. This is why again Rome is completely alone in this claim. Even the EOC rejected the doctrine of purgatory.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That only demonstrates a plurarity.

it does not only imply plurality, the same statement would be grammatically correct if it were made by any number of people.

Edit: Sorry I missed your point on that one yes you are correct but in any case it still supports a Co-Creator in the creation process.