Is it Wrong to Call Calvinism Unjust?

[renniks]

Here we go again. You would have God give us what is fair and impartial? We would all take up residence in the Lake of Fire. Or do you suppose some of us deserve grace?

God is fairly distributing his grace. He's not hoarding it and only offering it to some.
When he was lifted up he drew all men to himself. Not some men.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So to your thinking, God didn't KNOW??? He only hopes? Take a closer look at the word translated 'HOPE'. Hint: I 'expect' you are not a universalist, but I'm beginning to wonder.

I didn’t write the verse I’m just bringing it to your attention. I didn’t add the word hope in there, Paul put it there.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Not everyone who says to Me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of God Matthew 7:21

I would appreciate if you would just come right out and say what your point is, instead of leaving me to guess. Why did you bring this verse up. I don't deny it. Quite to the contrary, I love it. Puts the controls in God's hands, doesn't it?

No I’m not a universalist. Just because Christ died for all doesn’t mean that everyone has a free ticket to heaven, it means He has earned the right to choose who He will allow to enter and who He will deny.

That choice was made before the foundation of the world.

Christ died for all --so whose sins were actually paid for by Christ? Are you suggesting double-payment?

 

[Mark Quayle]

God is fairly distributing his grace. He's not hoarding it and only offering it to some.
When he was lifted up he drew all men to himself. Not some men.

I'm not asking to whom he offered it. I'm asking to whom it was given.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So to your thinking, God didn't KNOW??? He only hopes? Take a closer look at the word translated 'HOPE'. Hint: I 'expect' you are not a universalist, but I'm beginning to wonder.

I would say in this case the word hope is referring to His desire.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I didn’t write the verse I’m just bringing it to your attention. I didn’t add the word hope in there, Paul put it there.

And so.....? You haven't answered the questions I put to you.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I would say in this case the word hope is referring to His desire.

did he KNOW? Is God going to get what he wants?

 

[BNR32FAN]

I would appreciate if you would just come right out and say what your point is, instead of leaving me to guess. Why did you bring this verse up. I don't deny it. Quite to the contrary, I love it. Puts the controls in God's hands, doesn't it?

I’m sorry you asked if I were a universalist and this verse destroys universalism. And no it doesn’t put the controls in God’s hands when you keep reading. He who hears My words and acts on them... There’s a choice to be made there by the individual.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I’m sorry you asked if I were a universalist and this verse destroys universalism. And no it doesn’t put the controls in God’s hands when you keep reading. He who hears My words and acts on them... There’s a choice to be made there by the individual.

Back to the old grind, huh? You claim my theology denies choice. I claim my theology demands choice. I guess we will part company here.

 

[BNR32FAN]

did he KNOW? Is God going to get what he wants?

No He won’t get what He wants. 1 Timothy 2:3-4 and 2 Peter 3:9 are just two examples. He didn’t want to flood the world either but He did.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Back to the old grind, huh? You claim my theology denies choice. I claim my theology demands choice. I guess we will part company here.

The difference is who is making the choice? You say God makes the choice, I say God enables us to make the choice.

 

[Mark Quayle]

No He won’t get what He wants. 1 Timothy 2:3-4 and 2 Peter 3:9 are just two examples. He didn’t want to flood the world either but He did.

That's not what I'm asking. If God plans something, it will indeed come to pass, no?

 

[Mark Quayle]

The difference is who is making the choice? You say God makes the choice, I say God enables us to make the choice.

I say God makes the choice, and so, we do too. Unavoidably, as a matter of fact.

 

[BNR32FAN]

And so.....? You haven't answered the questions I put to you.

Im sorry what questions? Did I miss something?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Im sorry what questions? Did I miss something?

Nevermind. This conversation is following the same track as our others. I don't have patience for mere repetition.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That's not what I'm asking. If God plans something, it will indeed come to pass, no?

That’s a tough question because I believe God’s plan is that He has enabled us to make the choice. So if His plan is for us to make a choice then yeah it has come to pass. We have been given the ability to choose. Plan accomplished. Those verses I quoted don’t say that God planned for all to be saved and come to the full knowledge of truth and that none should perish. They say that is His desire not His plan. There’s a difference. So why does God desire all to be saved but not all will be saved? This falls in line with Him hoping for creation to be freed from its slavery to corruption. He’s hoping people will make the right choice just like every father out there.

 

[Mark Quayle]

That’s a tough question because I believe God’s plan is that He has enabled us to make the choice. So if His plan is for us to make a choice then yeah it has come to pass. We have been given the ability to choose. Plan accomplished. Those verses I quoted don’t say that God planned for all to be saved and come to the full knowledge of truth and that none should perish. They say that is His desire not His plan. There’s a difference. So why does God desire all to be saved but not all will be saved? This falls in line with Him hoping for creation to be freed from its slavery to corruption. He’s hoping people will make the right choice just like every father out there.

That doesn't even allow for foreknowledge, nevermind for Scriptural and Logical Predestination.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I say God makes the choice, and so, we do too. Unavoidably, as a matter of fact.

I can prove that wrong with Romans 2:4-5


“Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Is God granting these people grace?

 

[BNR32FAN]

That doesn't even allow for foreknowledge, nevermind for Scriptural and Logical Predestination.

Why is foreknowledge eliminated by this reasoning?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Nevermind. This conversation is following the same track as our others. I don't have patience for mere repetition.

Just please answer post 318