Contrary to what Premil teaches: Revelation 20 does not locate Jesus on earth!

[Timtofly]

I will take your avoidance as an admission that my initial claim is spot on. Your are now left with mere opinion. No Premil can present anything in Revelation 20 to support their theory because it does not exist. I suspect you know that.

As I have previously demonstrated: Premil hangs its doctrine on a very precarious frayed thread: that of Revelation 20 following Revelation 19 chronologically in time. To hold this, it has to dismiss the different recaps (or different camera views pertaining to the intra-Advent period) that exist throughout the book of Revelation, divorce it from repeated Scripture on this matter and also explain away the clear and explicit climactic detail that pertains to Revelation 19. Premil is dependent upon the dubious premise that Revelation 20 is chronological to Revelation 19. That is it! Disprove that and Premil falls apart.

Can you prove John did not mean to place Revelation 20 after chapter 19? It is your opinion this order of writing is a "frayed thread". I thought it was God's Word. Your claim is that God's Word is a "frayed thread". That is your opinion not mine. The OP is not God's Word, but only your opinion of God's Word. If God's Word is a "frayed thread" that is your opinion as well.

"Divorce" is your opinion as well, not God's Word.

 

[Timtofly]

Earlier you somewhat jumped on me claiming I was derailing your thread, but what you are discussing in this post, is not derailing your thread---lol? Pretrib has zero to do with if Christ is on earth in Revelation 20. Per Premil, though I strongly disagree with Pretrib, Pretrib is meaning before the time of the thousand years, not during it instead, and that the OP is meaning during the thousand years, and that Premils think Revelation 20 places Jesus on the earth in that chapter. So quit derailing your own thread---lol.

The argument is that Christ is not on earth now. I guess not even in the physical body of the church, us posters. Because there is no throne in Jerusalem now, that totally negates 1000 years in Revelation 20. It is indefinite like not definite the church is the body of Christ on earth.

 

[sovereigngrace]

You are the one claiming more of the same. If everything is over, the Millennium is not more of the same. Your excuse why there cannot be a Lord's Day is pointless without merit.

Of course everything is over. Daniel 9 is complete. The 7th Trumpet is complete. The Lord's Day can now start after the 6000 years of Adam's punishment has been satisfied. God does not use 2 days of man's sin as the Lord's Day. That is ridiculous!

"Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work."

It does not say:

"Four days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the last 3 days are the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work."

Why conflate the blessing with the punishment? The Lord's Day is holy unto the Lord, not part of Adam's punishment.

Quite the opposite! Constantly throughout the Word of God we see that “this present evil age” is equated with suffering and pain. The age to come is depicted as an eternal rest and safety. Romans 8:16-18 explains, “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time (or kairos) are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall (or mello or hereafter) be revealed in us.”

There is a constant tension throughout the New Testament in regard to the imperfection of this age and the perfection of the age to come, the temporal nature of our current age and the eternal character of the age to come. The theme is consistent and well-defined. The phrase “this present time” found in this reading closely corresponds with the synonymous expression “this world/age” found throughout the New Testament to describe the here-and-now. It is a saying that is normally used when contrasting the imperfection of this current life to the bliss and glory of the approaching eternal state – “the world / age to come.” In fact, Scripture only knows of two ages – “this age” and the “age to come,” Scripture make no mention of, or allowance for, any imperfect semi-glorious/semi-corrupt transitional age in-between “this present time” or age and the eternal “age to come,” as Premils argue.

In this reading, Paul is simply comparing the testing and trials that God’s people currently endure in this current life, which is plagued with all the consequences of the fall, and the joy of the eternal state when Christ comes that is totally purged of the curse. The portrayal of this age correlates with Galatians 1:4 that labels “this present time” of “sufferings” as “this present evil age.” Paul speaks of a time when “the children of God” will be “glorified together” at His return. He assures his audience that the difficulties of this life are nothing “to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us” when Christ appears. His whole focus is the glory that will be finally and eternally realized at Christ’s return.

Romans 8:19-23 continues, “For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption (phthora or decay) into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.”

The Greek word interpreted “vanity” in the KJV is the Greek word mataiotes meaning: 1) what is devoid of truth and appropriateness; 2) perverseness, depravity; 3) frailty, want of vigour. This embodies all consequences of sin on the earth.

God in His providence and infinite wisdom has ordained a day when He will finally bring time, evil and the bondage of corruption to an end. This passage speaks of an approaching climactic event in history that will eventually and eternally release all creation from a position of current anguish and despair to a place of total liberation and relief. In fact, there can be no doubt; the central focus of this whole passage is the yearning of “the whole creation” for the day when “the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.” There is indeed a termination to the “bondage of corruption” – it is the one and only future all-consummating Coming of Christ.

There is a direct connection between the liberation of “creation” and the liberation of the “sons of God.” Both the creature and creation are waiting for “the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body” – or resurrection day. This is the day when both will simultaneously be delivered from the aforementioned “bondage of corruption.” The day of redemption is shown throughout Scripture to be the second coming of Christ. It is there is that man experiences the final part of redemption – the redemption of his body.

R.C. Sproul expounds: “In this present darkness, the curse extends to the end of the earth— to our lives, to our labors, to our businesses, to our relationships. All suffer under the pangs of the curse of a fallen world. That’s why there’s a cosmic yearning, where all of creation groans together waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God, waiting for that moment when the curse is removed.”

This earth has been gradually degenerating since the fall. That is why people lived a lot longer at the beginning and why the earth would have probably produced a great deal more bountifully. Because of its degenerating state, creation will be regenerated and brought back to its pristine state. We see that in Psalm 102:25-27, which predicts, “Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.”

This earth is depicted in Scripture as gradually decaying to such a stage that it needs replaced. The surface of this earth is metaphorically likened unto a well-worn overcoat that needs replaced with a brand-new spotless garment. This is shown throughout the sacred pages to occur at the second coming. Christ is not going to replace the current tattered earthly coat with another deteriorating coat, as Premillennialists imagine. No! But rather a new perfected garment.

We see that also in Hebrews 1:10-12 tells us, “Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish [Gr. apollumi]; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old [Gr. palaioo] as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed [Gr. allasso]: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.”

These passages confirm the reality of the ongoing existence of the bondage of corruption. Comparing this earth to a fading and deteriorating garment, the writer tells us that the current heavens and earth is waxing old. The Greek word employed here for “wax old” is palaioo which means worn out, decaying or to declare obsolete. The Greek word apollumi means to destroy fully or perish.

These passages assure us that current imperfect decay earth/heavens is going to be replaced soon by a perfect arrangement. Creation is going to experience a supernatural overhaul because of its damaged and deficient character. The import here is of the current deteriorating and decaying heavens and earth being changed and replaced with a new non-decaying vesture. Of course, repeated Scripture locates this at the second coming of Christ.

The phrase “they shall be changed” in the Old Testament passage is taken from the Hebrew word chalaph: meaning to hasten away, pass on, or change. In the New Testament passage, it is taken from the Greek word allasso which means “to make different.” It is interesting to note the thrust of these 2 passages. They show the temporal nature of the current heavens and earth but the eternality of God’s goodness, faithfulness, years and salvation. This current corrupt earth has an expiration date.

 

[sovereigngrace]

The argument is that Christ is not on earth now. I guess not even in the physical body of the church, us posters. Because there is no throne in Jerusalem now, that totally negates 1000 years in Revelation 20. It is indefinite like not definite the church is the body of Christ on earth.

And where is natural physical Jerusalem mentioned in Revelation 20? Where does it say we populate that?

 

[sovereigngrace]

Posting the above 1000 times will not change God's Word about the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth, from Jerusalem, after the Second Coming. Matthew 24 25. Revelation 6.

The term “a thousand” is used continually throughout the Word as a generalisation or a round figure for “a lot” or “a long time.” It should therefore not be considered as a wooden figure.

Please remember there is no “one thousand years” (1,000 yrs) mentioned in this passage but rather the symbolic phrase "a thousand years." The term “one thousand” is only found once in Scripture in Isaiah 30:17. The phrase "a thousand" is repeatedly presented in Scripture as a symbolic phrase to describe a large undefined number.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Plus 1 Thessalonians 2:18 Satan hindered Paul.

That’s kind of hard to do if he is currently bound, eh?

Once again, Satan was bound "FOR" the Elect so Christ can spoil His people out of Satan's House (world of spiritual bondage) through the testimony of the Gospel. I do not think you really understood what 1st Thess 2:18 is actually all about. You thought this verse proves that Satan has the power to prevent the church from spreading. Well, you are wrong, else we are not saved if Satan successfully hindered the Gospel from reaching to us since the Cross.

Now to address your misunderstood of 1st Thessalonians 2:18:

Context

The context is in the previous verses,

“For ...you suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the Jews, who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and oppose all mankind by hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles that they might be saved...” ‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭2:14-16‬

The context is about hindering the spread of the gospel that might lead to salvation by the unbelieving Jews supported by the Scribes and Pharisees.

Connection

Who else hindered the gospel of the kingdom?

"But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:13‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Cause

And what does Jesus say about these Pharisees? Who is their father and who inspires their decisions?

“Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” ‭‭John‬ ‭8:42, 44‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Conclusion

So when Apostle Paul says

“because we wanted to come to you—I, Paul, again and again—but Satan hindered us.” ‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭2:18‬ ‭ESV‬‬

If you put this all together earlier in verses 14-16 he says that the Jews prevented them from preaching the gospel to the gentiles and because they again have been hindered from preaching the gospel to them in person by the Jews, knowing that they are simply doing the will of their father the devil, ultimately it was the devil that was standing against them and not the Jews. Because the fight is not against the persons but against the power that guides the person

“For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.” ‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:12‬ ‭ESV‬‬

And in this case, the deceived Jews were being guided by their spiritual father the devil and Paul correctly identifies the source as being the devil. Fighting against the Jews would not have garnered as much success as fighting against the spiritual enemy dealing with the source directly.

Yes, the spiritual forces of Satan were working through his unsaved people to hinder the spread of the Gospel but he was UNABLE to prevent people from getting saved. That is why his power was limited (being bound) until Christ first finish building His Church WITH HIS PEOPLE being saved. Only then Satan will be loosened. Yes, Satan has many Christians hurt and killed during the New Testament period, but that does not mean he was not able to prevent Salvation from reaching to God's chosen people that is what Revelation 20 is about.

Therefore your position on 1st Thess 2:18 has been refuted.

 

[TribulationSigns]

This passage alone and by itself gives me hope that He is coming again, and I also look for the new heavens and the new earth.
Yet, the prophecies in Zechariah, Ezekiel and Micah have yet to be fulfilled.

Sorry, to disappoint you, these have been fulfilled and with Ezekiel 38/39 are fulfilling now. Like the blind Jews of Old, you are looking for literal fulfillment with national Israel thinking these prophecies are yet to be fulfilled will totally miss it. Using wrong Israel is all I can say about the Premil.

 

[sovereigngrace]

And he’s therefore not bound, for most of the world, thus he’s not bound in the bottomless pit in chains.

And Satan hindered Paul:

1Th 2:18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.

Looks like you need to examine your view more thoroughly.

Whilst 1 Thessalonians 2:18 proves that Satan hindered Paul, there is other New Testament proof that the devil didn’t stop Paul. To establish this, I had to do a bit of digging. I will try and keep it simple. The first thing we need to note is that the passage we are reading this evening 1 Thessalonians is accepted by historians and scholars as having been written in A.D. 51.

The other thing we need to be aware, is: Thessalonica was the capital and major port of the whole Roman province of Macedonia. In fact, it was the centre-point of what God was doing in Macedonia.

Well, 1 Corinthians was written four years later in A.D. 55. And in 1 Corinthians 16:5 Paul testifies: Now I will come unto you, when I shall pass through Macedonia: for I do pass through Macedonia.

2 Corinthians is believed to have been written in A.D. 56. In 2 Corinthians 7:5 Paul again testifies: "For, when we were come into Macedonia, our flesh had no rest, but we were troubled on every side; without were fightings, within were fears."

Paul almost certainly realized his plan to visit Thessalonica during his visit to Macedonia. 2 Corinthians 7:5; 8:1-5, and 9:1-4 seem to support that contention. Commentators are of the view, he visited the area a few times.

As the Puritans held: God’s delays are not His denials.

 

[Timtofly]

All Premils would agree that Revelation 17-19 sees Satan stirring up his wicked army against Christ approaching Armageddon. But there is no mention of Satan in these chapters. That is because Revelation series of detailed parallels/cycles/recap focusing on different aspect of the overall conflict in the invisible realm between the kingdom of darkness and the kingdom of God. Revelation 17-19 is the 6th of 7 recaps. Revelation 20-22 is the 7th of 7. Revelation 17-19 focused on the character, influence and evil of Babylon, and depicts their final fate, the false prophet and the beast, Revelation 20-22 focuses in on the the character, influence and evil of Satan and describes his fate of Satan. Revelation takes us right back to the first resurrection 2000 years ago.

They would also agree that saints are kicked out of Jerusalem for 42 months, hiding in the wilderness, but not literally. Revelation 12:14-17

"And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Satan takes over Jerusalem and the throne and the temple for 42 months. We get chapter 13. Satan is not gathering an army to surround his rule in Jerusalem. Satan is gathering an army to Armageddon in Megiddo 60 miles north of Jerusalem.

That is not based on private opinion interpretation recap, which has nothing to do with God’s Word, zilch. It is based on reading compression starting with chapter 12, going to chapter 13. 14 is during the 42 months, or is just the end of the 7th Trumpet, without a 42 month interruption per Daniel 9:27. The 7th Trumpet in Revelation 10 is the confirmation by God the Covenant is over, literally no more time left. The 7th Trumpet is one week, not 7 years.

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

The 42 months of Satan in chapter 13 is the overspreading of desolation that comes in the midst of the week of the sound from the 7th Trumpet.

"And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

Daniel 9 is complete. Daniel gives the days of the sound of the 7th Trumpet as one week. Revelation 10 declares the confirmation is given by God and Daniel 9 is complete at the 7th Trumpet.

Then 15 and 16 are the vials poured out on the kingdom of Satan ruling from Jerusalem. The bodies of the two witnesses lay dead for 3.5 days during the vials. Then Armageddon. Then Satan is defeated and bound in the pit for 1000 years. Explain to me where in Revelation 12 Satan is bound for 1000 years at any point in the record of history? To be loosed on the earth for 42 months. Christ is not ruling from Jerusalem those 42 months, Satan is. Satan does not attack Jerusalem, no one does. The two witnesses are killed on the streets of Jerusalem by one being, not billions of angry people from Gog and Magog.

Satan, the FP, and the beast call up an army of 10 nations for one hour rule in the 6th vial. They meet at Megiddo. Do you deny Christ comes on a white horse to earth, or does reality stop at Armageddon?

My claim is the 7th Trumpet is still sounding for those 42 months, because time does not stop until Satan is bound and placed in a pit for 1000 years. Unless you advocate for an indefinite period of time and send Satan back into history, then the Lord's Day is after time is declared over and not part of the 6000 years at all, as you state the Lord's Day is the indefinite last 1991 years. Or does not exist at all.

The Lord's Day is the same 1000 years that Satan is bound, according to John. They rule and reign with Christ for 1000 years. That is the Lord's Day.

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night."

Explain how the day of the Lord comes to earth, and Christ is not present? A day with the Lord is as 1000 years. John says they rule and reign with Christ 1000 years. "Six days shalt thou labor, but the 7th Day", that Day is ruling with the Lord. If the last day is only spiritual, that would make the last 6000 years just a spiritual dream, no? If the last day is just a spiritual concept of human imagination, why are the last 6 days literal?

 

[Timtofly]

Amils interpret the OT in the light of the clearer and broader NT. So, my answer is:

· Because the New Testament forbids the reintroduction of this abolished Old Testament system.
· Because Christ's atoning death met all the holy demands of the Old Testament Law.
· Because Jesus said "it is finished" as He gave up the ghost on the cross.
· Because Christ's sacrifice is the final sacrifice for sin.

Scripture describes the old covenant sacrificial system as “that which is done away” (2 Corinthians 3:11) and “that which is abolished” (2 Corinthians 3:13). It makes clear: “the old testament … vail is done away in Christ" (2 Corinthians 3:14). Hebrews 10:9 confirms: “He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” Hebrews 10:2 confirms they “ceased to be offered?

Is this not derailing the thread talking about the last 2 days called the church age? The church as the literal body of Christ on earth for the last 1991 years has literally nor spiritually any thing to do with the reign of Christ on earth at the Second Coming.

I am not arguing if Christ is presently physically ruling in Jerusalem. That would be your point to refute if the Lord's Day was an indefinite period of time of your choosing.

Since the error is that we are in the Millennium now, I do not have to argue if Christ is presently ruling from Jerusalem now. That would be the error of saying the Millennium is now.

This thread is about if Jesus is on earth after coming to earth. Was Jesus literally on earth for 33.5 years the first time, or was the Messiah of the first century here just as a spiritual indefinite time called the OT age from Moses to John the Baptist?

When Jesus is said to come to earth, one can conclude that Jesus Christ is literally physically on earth. Not only do you deny Christ physically on earth, you deny the Second Coming is physical at all. There is no Lord's Day period. Heaven and earth pass away immediately. You deny Revelation 7 and on as being physical at the Second Coming. You apply the whole book of Revelation to the first century, full preterism. The only thing at the Second Coming is from Revelation 20:11 and on. Yes, recap is a form of preterism that puts the bulk of Revelation in the first century.

Because if Christ is physically on earth at the 6th Seal, Christ does not leave until the GWT in Revelation 20. Where Christ is during the 42 months is shown in Revelation 14. Christ is not physically present during those 42 months. Christ is physically present at Armageddon. Yet in your theology, there is not even the 42 months, nor Armageddon. It all happens in the first century or some indefinite period of time. 42 months is as indefinite as 1000 years, just another symbolic number. According to you, Daniel's 70 weeks should also just be an indefinite period of time where the Messiah never came to earth, but all was spiritual in the heavens. It will not end until the climactic spiritual Second Coming. The first coming like the second coming are just indefinite periods of time of your chosing.

That is not misrepresenting how making everything spiritualized sounds. You cannot prove the first coming was physical, while denying the Second Coming is also not physical.

Premill just seem (according to you) to falsely assume, the Second Coming is physical and will last 1000 years just the same as the first coming was physical and lasted some 33.5 years. We are not Preterist who put both comings in the first century, and claim some 1900 indefinite years of meaningless events. I did not say you claim the Second Coming is in the first century. You claim it is not physical, so it does not matter to us literal beings when it happens symbolically. It will happen so fast, we will will not even experience it.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Is this not derailing the thread talking about the last 2 days called the church age? The church as the literal body of Christ on earth for the last 1991 years has literally nor spiritually any thing to do with the reign of Christ on earth at the Second Coming.

I am not arguing if Christ is presently physically ruling in Jerusalem. That would be your point to refute if the Lord's Day was an indefinite period of time of your choosing.

Since the error is that we are in the Millennium now, I do not have to argue if Christ is presently ruling from Jerusalem now. That would be the error of saying the Millennium is now.

This thread is about if Jesus is on earth after coming to earth. Was Jesus literally on earth for 33.5 years the first time, or was the Messiah of the first century here just as a spiritual indefinite time called the OT age from Moses to John the Baptist?

When Jesus is said to come to earth, one can conclude that Jesus Christ is literally physically on earth. Not only do you deny Christ physically on earth, you deny the Second Coming is physical at all. There is no Lord's Day period. Heaven and earth pass away immediately. You deny Revelation 7 and on as being physical at the Second Coming. You apply the whole book of Revelation to the first century, full preterism. The only thing at the Second Coming is from Revelation 20:11 and on. Yes, recap is a form of preterism that puts the bulk of Revelation in the first century.

Because if Christ is physically on earth at the 6th Seal, Christ does not leave until the GWT in Revelation 20. Where Christ is during the 42 months is shown in Revelation 14. Christ is not physically present during those 42 months. Christ is physically present at Armageddon. Yet in your theology, there is not even the 42 months, nor Armageddon. It all happens in the first century or some indefinite period of time. 42 months is as indefinite as 1000 years, just another symbolic number. According to you, Daniel's 70 weeks should also just be an indefinite period of time where the Messiah never came to earth, but all was spiritual in the heavens. It will not end until the climactic spiritual Second Coming. The first coming like the second coming are just indefinite periods of time of your chosing.

That is not misrepresenting how making everything spiritualized sounds. You cannot prove the first coming was physical, while denying the Second Coming is also not physical.

Premill just seem (according to you) to falsely assume, the Second Coming is physical and will last 1000 years just the same as the first coming was physical and lasted some 33.5 years. We are not Preterist who put both comings in the first century, and claim some 1900 indefinite years of meaningless events. I did not say you claim the Second Coming is in the first century. You claim it is not physical, so it does not matter to us literal beings when it happens symbolically. It will happen so fast, we will will not even experience it.

He is not ruling in natural Jerusalem now in this NT era or is some supposed future millennium. He is bringing the New Jerusalem down unto the new perfected earth when He comes. That is the end! We are now into eternity.

 

[sovereigngrace]

They would also agree that saints are kicked out of Jerusalem for 42 months, hiding in the wilderness, but not literally. Revelation 12:14-17

"And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Satan takes over Jerusalem and the throne and the temple for 42 months. We get chapter 13. Satan is not gathering an army to surround his rule in Jerusalem. Satan is gathering an army to Armageddon in Megiddo 60 miles north of Jerusalem.

That is not based on private opinion interpretation recap, which has nothing to do with God’s Word, zilch. It is based on reading compression starting with chapter 12, going to chapter 13. 14 is during the 42 months, or is just the end of the 7th Trumpet, without a 42 month interruption per Daniel 9:27. The 7th Trumpet in Revelation 10 is the confirmation by God the Covenant is over, literally no more time left. The 7th Trumpet is one week, not 7 years.

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

The 42 months of Satan in chapter 13 is the overspreading of desolation that comes in the midst of the week of the sound from the 7th Trumpet.

"And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

Daniel 9 is complete. Daniel gives the days of the sound of the 7th Trumpet as one week. Revelation 10 declares the confirmation is given by God and Daniel 9 is complete at the 7th Trumpet.

Then 15 and 16 are the vials poured out on the kingdom of Satan ruling from Jerusalem. The bodies of the two witnesses lay dead for 3.5 days during the vials. Then Armageddon. Then Satan is defeated and bound in the pit for 1000 years. Explain to me where in Revelation 12 Satan is bound for 1000 years at any point in the record of history? To be loosed on the earth for 42 months. Christ is not ruling from Jerusalem those 42 months, Satan is. Satan does not attack Jerusalem, no one does. The two witnesses are killed on the streets of Jerusalem by one being, not billions of angry people from Gog and Magog.

Satan, the FP, and the beast call up an army of 10 nations for one hour rule in the 6th vial. They meet at Megiddo. Do you deny Christ comes on a white horse to earth, or does reality stop at Armageddon?

My claim is the 7th Trumpet is still sounding for those 42 months, because time does not stop until Satan is bound and placed in a pit for 1000 years. Unless you advocate for an indefinite period of time and send Satan back into history, then the Lord's Day is after time is declared over and not part of the 6000 years at all, as you state the Lord's Day is the indefinite last 1991 years. Or does not exist at all.

The Lord's Day is the same 1000 years that Satan is bound, according to John. They rule and reign with Christ for 1000 years. That is the Lord's Day.

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night."

Explain how the day of the Lord comes to earth, and Christ is not present? A day with the Lord is as 1000 years. John says they rule and reign with Christ 1000 years. "Six days shalt thou labor, but the 7th Day", that Day is ruling with the Lord. If the last day is only spiritual, that would make the last 6000 years just a spiritual dream, no? If the last day is just a spiritual concept of human imagination, why are the last 6 days literal?

Please address what I said and try and rebut it, instead of going off on your usual rabbit trails. Again, zero evidence and ongoing avoidance. That is your pattern. This is not right. The Scripture you present makes no mention of Jerusalem, you force it into the text to support your mistaken beliefs.

Revelation 12 places the defeat of Satan at the resurrection / ascension: "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

Here, in correlation with Revelation 20, we see the end of Satan unchallenged deceiving of the Gentiles. John declares: "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ." How?

Previous to Satan's eviction, God was Israel's God, not the Gentiles God. Satan ruled the nations. But through this casting out of Satan, after man's penalty had been paid in full, he no longer had anything to accuse the elect over. It was indeed finished! The powerful spread of the Gospel to the Gentiles lifting the deception that kept them bound. Satan was now bound. The boot was on the other foot. With the global expanse of the great commission the Gentiles now are without excuse. The ignorance is gone. The veil is lifted. The means by which God lifts deception is the preaching of the Word of God. This has now been successfully ongoing throughout the nations for 2000 years.

Satan's defeat came after the resurrection. Here is when he got his eviction notice, and here is "when" salvation came to the "whole world" - not just one nation Israel. The deception enveloping the Gentiles was lifted - praise God. They are now without excuse, just like those in the OT that rejected salvation. Salvation has now come to the nations. But Satan had to first be cast down. He had to be defeated. Christ’s life, death and resurrection safely secured that. As a result the Church becomes a militant overcoming organism.

Christ’s death, burial and resurrection was the decisive blow against Satan. His defeat has already been wrought. This passage plainly shows the powerful result of Calvary and the deep impact it had upon Satan. It shows us that Satan is now under Christ’s feet and is now subject to His Sovereign will. Satan and his minions are barred from heaven. They have been banished after they were defeated 2,000 years ago.

Christ predicted shortly before He destroyed the power of Satan at the cross, in John 12:30-33: “Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.”

Christ’s death, burial and resurrection was the decisive blow against Satan. His defeat has already been wrought. This passage plainly shows the powerful result of Calvary and the deep impact it had upon Satan. It shows us that Satan is now under Christ’s feet and is now subject to His Sovereign will. Satan and his minions are barred from heaven. They have been banished after they were defeated 2,000 years ago.

 

[Timtofly]

Quite the opposite! Constantly throughout the Word of God we see that “this present evil age” is equated with suffering and pain. The age to come is depicted as an eternal rest and safety. Romans 8:16-18 explains, “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time (or kairos) are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall (or mello or hereafter) be revealed in us.”

There is a constant tension throughout the New Testament in regard to the imperfection of this age and the perfection of the age to come, the temporal nature of our current age and the eternal character of the age to come. The theme is consistent and well-defined. The phrase “this present time” found in this reading closely corresponds with the synonymous expression “this world/age” found throughout the New Testament to describe the here-and-now. It is a saying that is normally used when contrasting the imperfection of this current life to the bliss and glory of the approaching eternal state – “the world / age to come.” In fact, Scripture only knows of two ages – “this age” and the “age to come,” Scripture make no mention of, or allowance for, any imperfect semi-glorious/semi-corrupt transitional age in-between “this present time” or age and the eternal “age to come,” as Premils argue.

In this reading, Paul is simply comparing the testing and trials that God’s people currently endure in this current life, which is plagued with all the consequences of the fall, and the joy of the eternal state when Christ comes that is totally purged of the curse. The portrayal of this age correlates with Galatians 1:4 that labels “this present time” of “sufferings” as “this present evil age.” Paul speaks of a time when “the children of God” will be “glorified together” at His return. He assures his audience that the difficulties of this life are nothing “to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us” when Christ appears. His whole focus is the glory that will be finally and eternally realized at Christ’s return.

Romans 8:19-23 continues, “For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption (phthora or decay) into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.”

The Greek word interpreted “vanity” in the KJV is the Greek word mataiotes meaning: 1) what is devoid of truth and appropriateness; 2) perverseness, depravity; 3) frailty, want of vigour. This embodies all consequences of sin on the earth.

God in His providence and infinite wisdom has ordained a day when He will finally bring time, evil and the bondage of corruption to an end. This passage speaks of an approaching climactic event in history that will eventually and eternally release all creation from a position of current anguish and despair to a place of total liberation and relief. In fact, there can be no doubt; the central focus of this whole passage is the yearning of “the whole creation” for the day when “the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.” There is indeed a termination to the “bondage of corruption” – it is the one and only future all-consummating Coming of Christ.

There is a direct connection between the liberation of “creation” and the liberation of the “sons of God.” Both the creature and creation are waiting for “the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body” – or resurrection day. This is the day when both will simultaneously be delivered from the aforementioned “bondage of corruption.” The day of redemption is shown throughout Scripture to be the second coming of Christ. It is there is that man experiences the final part of redemption – the redemption of his body.

R.C. Sproul expounds: “In this present darkness, the curse extends to the end of the earth— to our lives, to our labors, to our businesses, to our relationships. All suffer under the pangs of the curse of a fallen world. That’s why there’s a cosmic yearning, where all of creation groans together waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God, waiting for that moment when the curse is removed.”

This earth has been gradually degenerating since the fall. That is why people lived a lot longer at the beginning and why the earth would have probably produced a great deal more bountifully. Because of its degenerating state, creation will be regenerated and brought back to its pristine state. We see that in Psalm 102:25-27, which predicts, “Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.”

This earth is depicted in Scripture as gradually decaying to such a stage that it needs replaced. The surface of this earth is metaphorically likened unto a well-worn overcoat that needs replaced with a brand-new spotless garment. This is shown throughout the sacred pages to occur at the second coming. Christ is not going to replace the current tattered earthly coat with another deteriorating coat, as Premillennialists imagine. No! But rather a new perfected garment.

We see that also in Hebrews 1:10-12 tells us, “Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish [Gr. apollumi]; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old [Gr. palaioo] as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed [Gr. allasso]: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.”

These passages confirm the reality of the ongoing existence of the bondage of corruption. Comparing this earth to a fading and deteriorating garment, the writer tells us that the current heavens and earth is waxing old. The Greek word employed here for “wax old” is palaioo which means worn out, decaying or to declare obsolete. The Greek word apollumi means to destroy fully or perish.

These passages assure us that current imperfect decay earth/heavens is going to be replaced soon by a perfect arrangement. Creation is going to experience a supernatural overhaul because of its damaged and deficient character. The import here is of the current deteriorating and decaying heavens and earth being changed and replaced with a new non-decaying vesture. Of course, repeated Scripture locates this at the second coming of Christ.

The phrase “they shall be changed” in the Old Testament passage is taken from the Hebrew word chalaph: meaning to hasten away, pass on, or change. In the New Testament passage, it is taken from the Greek word allasso which means “to make different.” It is interesting to note the thrust of these 2 passages. They show the temporal nature of the current heavens and earth but the eternality of God’s goodness, faithfulness, years and salvation. This current corrupt earth has an expiration date.

When your physical body dies, do you plan on moving on to the next age or do you expect your soul to linger in the sin and death of this present age?

You refuse to even have an incorruptible body that is permanent, but walk around like a naked soul without a tent or permanent building.

So your definition of leaving this age does not agree with my view of leaving this age already.

So to me all this alledged waiting does not apply once a soul leaves this physical body. If it does not apply to those in Paradise, how can you apply this argument to the next age at all. This age is over for you, when you physically die. Paul was arguing that over 1900 years ago. Do you think his condition is still one of physically waiting, or did this age end for him 1900+ years ago? Paul says the living can not prevent this experience to those souls who have left this physical tent.

No! I am not saying the Lord's Day overlaps in Paradise while the earth decays below.

When one denies the coming Lord's Day, and uses the state of current affairs as an excuse, it does not make sense. The earth is not a being that cares how it looks. Just like water cleansed the earth of the wicked sons of God, so fire will destroy the wicked technology of Satan that the current earth is "groaning about". The Lord's Day will be a new heaven and earth just like there was a new heaven and earth when Noah walked out of the ark. When Noah entered, all that water was up above, there was a totally different heaven full of water. Now that water was on the earth, making it a different and new heaven and earth.

When heaven is gone, that we think is a 14 billion year old universe, it will be a new heaven. When fire destroys all of Satan's and man's works, and the Continents and mountains are rearranged, it will be a new earth.

No matter how you chop up Revelation 20, the Second Coming is not when heaven and earth pass. The Second Coming is when God's Wrath creates a new heaven and earth by fire. Just like in Noah's day He created a new heaven and earth by water.

 

[sovereigngrace]

No matter how you chop up Revelation 20, the Second Coming is not when heaven and earth pass. The Second Coming is when God's Wrath creates a new heaven and earth by fire. Just like in Noah's day He created a new heaven and earth by water.

I am not one bit concerned that my views 'do not agree with your view of leaving this age'. If that was my gauge, my theology would be messed up. Amils test everything by Scripture. The Bible repeatedly exposes your views. It shows the removal of the old heavens and earth and the introduction of a brand-new perfect heavens and earth to be the second coming. You have ducked around this biblical truth.

Jesus said in Matthew 24:35-37, “Heaven (ouranos) and earth (gē) shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.”

The phrases rendered “pass away” in the Greek is parerchomai which basically means “perish.” It identifies the passing of this current earth at “the coming of the Son of man.”

2 Peter 3:10-13: “the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

We see in this reading that “the day of the Lord will arrive (heko) as a thief in the night; in the which (en heé)” or literally translated “in which” (the word “the” being absent from the original). The word en is used 2,831 times in Scripture and is overwhelmingly interpreted “in” or “within” throughout. Significantly, it is not translated as ‘near,’ ‘close to’ or ‘close by’ in any of these references. Support for the complete demolition attending the actual appearance of Christ in all His glory is also found in the same chapter in 2 Peter 3:12, which explains, “Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat.”

1. The heavens shall pass away / perish with a great noise.
2. The elements shall be ‘loosed by being set on fire’,
3. The earth shall be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly.
4. The works that are within the earth shall be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly.

Creation will be finally purged of wickedness, all the wicked, rebellion and all degeneration forever when Jesus comes. If the remedy for the corruption of the old heavens and earth is the introduction of a brand-new perfect heavens and earth then we are looking at an all-consummating reference to the destruction of the current globe and the existing heavens. The old arrangement that is marked by sin and insurrection is indeed destroyed by fire (as Peter said) and changed to a new glorified perfect arrangement “wherein dwelleth righteousness.” This allows no room for the continuation of unrighteousness or corruption, as Premils insists. Such is totally eliminated through the conflagration.

The whole description indicates that the heavens (outer space) we know now will be no more.

The current universe and stars are all going to be changed when He comes. Christ will be the eternal light on the new earth!

Revelation 20:11-15 – 21:1-5: “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth [Gr. gē] and the heaven [Gr. ouranos] fled away [Gr. pheugo]; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”

Read Revelation 21:23: "And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof."

Revelation 22:5: "And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever."

This is the second coming!

The Greek word pheugo is “a primary verb; to run away (literally or figuratively); by implication, to shun; by analogy, to vanish.”

Here we see “the earth and the heaven” flee away from the very presence of Christ coming upon His throne; it is clearly His appearing that ushers in the end. The arrival of the king of glory also sees the resurrection of the dead (righteous and wicked). Elsewhere in Scripture these things are located at His Coming. In fact, it is difficult to see how Premils can locate this event at anything other time than the second coming when we allow for the many plain climactic passages in Scripture.

 

[Timtofly]

And where is natural physical Jerusalem mentioned in Revelation 20? Where does it say we populate that?

We do not populate any thing. We are like the angels and only exist in Paradise the temple of God. "We" are not in Revelation 20, period.

Don't call it Jerusalem if you are not comfortable. Where do you think Satan and those billions are? What is:

"And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

Is this physical or like the epic battles found in ancient Vedas of Vedic Sanskrit text, spiritual? The above verse is not your typical nations against the nation of Israel conflicts. Is John being vague for a reason? Or is this because it is a new heaven and earth, and nothing resembles what we see today? If it cannot resemble geography of today, it cannot happen with current geography at the Second Coming.

If it is spiritual it could have happened any time, even before Creation in the gap of Genesis 1:1 as many falsely alledge happened like the Sanskrit Vedic text. Strip it from chronology and it could be anything, no?

 

[Timtofly]

The term “a thousand” is used continually throughout the Word as a generalisation or a round figure for “a lot” or “a long time.” It should therefore not be considered as a wooden figure.

Please remember there is no “one thousand years” (1,000 yrs) mentioned in this passage but rather the symbolic phrase "a thousand years." The term “one thousand” is only found once in Scripture in Isaiah 30:17. The phrase "a thousand" is repeatedly presented in Scripture as a symbolic phrase to describe a large undefined number.

The symbolic phrase would be the Lord's Day. The literal words would be 1000 years. How long is a Lord's Day to you? How long is 1000 years to you? Are you saying 1000 years ago was not 1021? It could be any arbitrary number we choose?

 

[Timtofly]

Therefore your position on 1st Thess 2:18 has been refuted.

I think you refuted Paul's own words. You said Satan did not hinder Paul. Paul said Satan did hinder Paul. If Paul did not know about Satan how could he ever address anything about Satan?

 

[sovereigngrace]

We do not populate any thing. We are like the angels and only exist in Paradise the temple of God. "We" are not in Revelation 20, period.

Don't call it Jerusalem if you are not comfortable. Where do you think Satan and those billions are? What is:

"And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

Is this physical or like the epic battles found in ancient Vedas of Vedic Sanskrit text, spiritual? The above verse is not your typical nations against the nation of Israel conflicts. Is John being vague for a reason? Or is this because it is a new heaven and earth, and nothing resembles what we see today? If it cannot resemble geography of today, it cannot happen with current geography at the Second Coming.

If it is spiritual it could have happened any time, even before Creation in the gap of Genesis 1:1 as many falsely alledge happened like the Sanskrit Vedic text. Strip it from chronology and it could be anything, no?

Mortals and the wicked do not survive the coming of Christ or are qualified to populate the new earth as you allege. They are destroyed by fire. Berean has repeatedly showed you that and you have rejected the sacred text. You are promoting private interpretation here to sustain your beliefs.

Proverbs 2:21-22 states: “For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it. But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.”

Even in the Old Testament, when the new age or world is mentioned, it is always identified exclusively with the righteous. This is not strange when we consider it is a prepared place for a prepared people. This is an arrangement where the wicked and wickedness are prohibited from.

Psalm 37:9-11 says, “For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait `upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.”

Again, this is a truth that is repeated clearly and unambiguously throughout both Testaments.

Psalm 37:22 says, “For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.”

The wicked are not worthy to inherit the new glorified earth and the perfect age to come.

Psalm 37:28-36 continues, “For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off. The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever ... Wait on the LORD, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.”

Here, “evildoers” and “the wicked” are synonymous titles that refer to the unrighteous whereas the designations “those that wait upon the LORD,” “the meek” and “His saints” refer to the righteous. The meek are the glorified believers. They are the antithesis of the wicked. Can you not see that? There are only ever 2 peoples. The meek alone possess the new earth - those that have been redeemed by His precious blood.

Psalm 25:12-13 says: “What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose. His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.”

This is the truth that is repeated by Christ in the New Testament. We see that confirmed in Matthew 5:5 saying, “Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.”

This current earth must be perfected. It must be glorified. It must be brought back to the paradise it was before the fall. Every time Scripture speaks of the believer receiving his inheritance (the kingdom/earth) it also shows the wicked receiving their eternal punishment.

The glorified saints are said to inherit the earth. This is assuredly talking about a new glorified earth, not this current corrupt arrangement that they have just departed. Their inheritance is not another period of corruption, rebellion and despair. They have just escaped that. The promised earth in view is actually depicted as a reward for the faithful. It cannot therefore be shared with the wicked.

1 Corinthians 6:9 also confirms: “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?”

According to Scripture the ungodly are forbidden from this new glorified earth. The wicked are left outside the eternal kingdom.

When Jesus comes it is the end! The sheep “inherit the kingdom” (Matthew 25:34) and “life eternal” (Matthew 25:46) whereas the goats are cast “into everlasting fire” (Matthew 25:41) and receive “everlasting punishment” (Matthew 25:46).

1 Corinthians 15:50 declares, “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”

This reading makes plain, “flesh and blood” or mortal believers cannot inherit a glorified earth that has been purified by fire of every last vestige of the curse. Man in his sinful corruptible state cannot inherit an incorruptible regenerated earth. Nothing could be plainer.

The new earth and the age to come is reserved solely for God’s people. The wicked will not see Christ’s face in the new arrangement because they are not qualified to inherit it. They will be destroyed at His glorious second advent.

At Christ’s return God’s people “all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge (or full discernment) of the Son of God, unto a man perfect (or andra teleion), unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ” (Ephesians 4:13).

We have obviously not arrived here yet, and will not arrive here until these corruptible fallen bodies are changed. To suggest otherwise is misunderstand God’s truth, deny reality and ignore the whole dichotomy between this age and the age to come. The usage of the Greek word teleios suggests ‘needing nothing further for their completeness’.

It is only at Christ return, and only then, when creation and the creature be at one with the Creator. All corruption and rebellion will be finally and eternally banished.

 

[Timtofly]

He is not ruling in natural Jerusalem now in this NT era or in some supposed future millennium. He is bringing the New Jerusalem down unto the new perfected earth when He comes. That is the end! We are now into eternity.

That is not the Second Coming.

 

[friend of]

Christ thus assumed the heavenly throne of David in perfect fulfilment of Old Testament prophecy and therefore reigns as sovereign king until His last enemy is made His footstool.

Has His last enemy been made His footstool yet?